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Post by karl on Mar 31, 2020 20:32:24 GMT
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KGrim
Full Member
Coming back to Arktos...for a little while anyways...just to see how things are doing.
Posts: 442
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Country: USA
Region: South East
Location: East Texas
Ancestry: Scotch-Irish
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Hero: Jesus
Age: 33 soon to be 34
Philosophy: Hesychasm
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Post by KGrim on Mar 31, 2020 21:07:29 GMT
karl , I find it interesting that the early church started as a grassroots bottom to top work, but later conversion became a top to bottom work. Do you think that these are both valid methods, each with its pros and cons, or is it only the bottom to top work thats the "Right way" while the Top to bottom is detrimental to the quality of Christianity expressed among the people?
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Post by karl on Apr 1, 2020 11:46:07 GMT
karl , I find it interesting that the early church started as a grassroots bottom to top work, but later conversion became a top to bottom work. Do you think that these are both valid methods, each with its pros and cons, or is it only the bottom to top work thats the "Right way" while the Top to bottom is detrimental to the quality of Christianity expressed among the people?
I've always held that any movement, whether religious or otherwise, has its best days early on, when idealism is still preserved. Later it becomes part of the hierarchical power structure of whatever culture it adapts to. So while the way by which Christianity spread throughout the Roman empire is vastly better to how the Spanish conquistadors rammed Christianity down the throats of the native Americans, I can't say that it mattered much in regards to the final outcome.
This is not to say that I see it as a bad thing that Christianity spread throughout the world. Even in its corrupted form, it was a vast improvement over what had been. Slavery ended in my country due to it becoming Christian, and the church was instrumental in reducing the practice of arranged marriages, as it thought the union between man and woman to be holy, which should happen voluntarily. In the 13th century we got something resembling a justice system, which I see as highly influenced by Christianity. Revenge was outlawed, families would no longer be punished for crimes perpetrated by other family members, and theft committed due to hunger would be given a milder punishment.
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KGrim
Full Member
Coming back to Arktos...for a little while anyways...just to see how things are doing.
Posts: 442
Likes: 238
Country: USA
Region: South East
Location: East Texas
Ancestry: Scotch-Irish
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Eastern Orthodox
Hero: Jesus
Age: 33 soon to be 34
Philosophy: Hesychasm
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Post by KGrim on Apr 1, 2020 21:47:19 GMT
karl , I find it interesting that the early church started as a grassroots bottom to top work, but later conversion became a top to bottom work. Do you think that these are both valid methods, each with its pros and cons, or is it only the bottom to top work thats the "Right way" while the Top to bottom is detrimental to the quality of Christianity expressed among the people?
I've always held that any movement, whether religious or otherwise, has its best days early on, when idealism is still preserved. Later it becomes part of the hierarchical power structure of whatever culture it adapts to. So while the way by which Christianity spread throughout the Roman empire is vastly better to how the Spanish conquistadors rammed Christianity down the throats of the native Americans, I can't say that it mattered much in regards to the final outcome.
This is not to say that I see it as a bad thing that Christianity spread throughout the world. Even in its corrupted form, it was a vast improvement over what had been. Slavery ended in my country due to it becoming Christian, and the church was instrumental in reducing the practice of arranged marriages, as it thought the union between man and woman to be holy, which should happen voluntarily. In the 13th century we got something resembling a justice system, which I see as highly influenced by Christianity. Revenge was outlawed, families would no longer be punished for crimes perpetrated by other family members, and theft committed due to hunger would be given a milder punishment.
What country are you from?
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Post by karl on Apr 1, 2020 22:34:03 GMT
I've always held that any movement, whether religious or otherwise, has its best days early on, when idealism is still preserved. Later it becomes part of the hierarchical power structure of whatever culture it adapts to. So while the way by which Christianity spread throughout the Roman empire is vastly better to how the Spanish conquistadors rammed Christianity down the throats of the native Americans, I can't say that it mattered much in regards to the final outcome.
This is not to say that I see it as a bad thing that Christianity spread throughout the world. Even in its corrupted form, it was a vast improvement over what had been. Slavery ended in my country due to it becoming Christian, and the church was instrumental in reducing the practice of arranged marriages, as it thought the union between man and woman to be holy, which should happen voluntarily. In the 13th century we got something resembling a justice system, which I see as highly influenced by Christianity. Revenge was outlawed, families would no longer be punished for crimes perpetrated by other family members, and theft committed due to hunger would be given a milder punishment.
What country are you from? Norway
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 2, 2020 1:02:20 GMT
Hmm. It's not Christian to all denominations then. I say this because mine would reject it. Like what does Norse stand for? Come on. Can't be Christian.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 2:21:04 GMT
Hmm. It's not Christian to all denominations then. I say this because mine would reject it. Like what does Norse stand for? Come on. Can't be Christian. Norse just stands for the english word north, in danish language. An invasion by some corded ware northereners , who inhabited iceland, were the founding fathers of some of the Viking dynasty, like ynglingas, eric the blood axe etc. This viking being aryans and nordic supremacy was completely hitler's bullcrap. Besides, how norway becoame christian has rooted more in terms of their war against anglo saxon, and when these vikigns settled at normandy, and married local girls, the frenchified vikings, or NORMANS, became christian, and because, england had an invasion by these normans, so entire europe became christian. Dutch frisso still have hatred on these WASP anglo saxon types, even today.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 2, 2020 4:45:42 GMT
Hmm. It's not Christian to all denominations then. I say this because mine would reject it. Like what does Norse stand for? Come on. Can't be Christian. Norse just stands for the english word north, in danish language. An invasion by some corded ware northereners , who inhabited iceland, were the founding fathers of some of the Viking dynasty, like ynglingas, eric the blood axe etc. This viking being aryans and nordic supremacy was completely hitler's bullcrap. Besides, how norway becoame christian has rooted more in terms of their war against anglo saxon, and when these vikigns settled at normandy, and married local girls, the frenchified vikings, or NORMANS, became christian, and because, england had an invasion by these normans, so entire europe became christian. Dutch frisso still have hatred on these WASP anglo saxon types, even today. That makes more sense. Wish I knew history at times. But you don't look too much of a historian there Mr. Rich Business Owner xD
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 7:03:24 GMT
Norse just stands for the english word north, in danish language. An invasion by some corded ware northereners , who inhabited iceland, were the founding fathers of some of the Viking dynasty, like ynglingas, eric the blood axe etc. This viking being aryans and nordic supremacy was completely hitler's bullcrap. Besides, how norway becoame christian has rooted more in terms of their war against anglo saxon, and when these vikigns settled at normandy, and married local girls, the frenchified vikings, or NORMANS, became christian, and because, england had an invasion by these normans, so entire europe became christian. Dutch frisso still have hatred on these WASP anglo saxon types, even today. That makes more sense. Wish I knew history at times. But you don't look too much of a historian there Mr. Rich Business Owner xDShall I take that a reference of calling me MR. HANDSOME :P Anyways, vikings history is being promoted by mass media, otherwise, an icelandic poet had talked about the source of origins of vikings king. Vikings were rather a failure in europe, they could not do anything to arab's occupancy, neither were able to take byzantium.
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Post by jonbain on Apr 2, 2020 12:17:58 GMT
Well this particular Viking, me, was converted to Christianity in 2006. And this only occurred through direct communion with the spirits of both Jesus and John the Baptist.
I was given no instruction to shun Norse culture. And I retain the invocation of Thor for the sole specific use of dealing with fake Christians - aTheists who pretend otherwise deserve only to meet the full face of Mjolnir in all its pagan glory.
Its a fascinating topic to me, but the video is rife with saxon propaganda. Only a sassenach boot-licker would term the Norse as germanic. Even today Denmark has a border with Europe - and that division predates the very concept of germany. Those cultures are very different specifically with the Norse respecting the role of women, whereas the germanic tradition is to subjugate all and sundry.
The other glaring misconception is to fail to see the connection between the Celts of Ireland and Scotland and the Norse. When the Vikings arrived in Britain there was little conflict with the Scots by comparison, who incorporated the Norse far more readily than the anglo-saxons. Those sassenach typically just pretend that 'the Vikings just arrived and attacked us for no reason and raped the women'. This is the pervasive myth of the false Christian sassenach, because they were notoriously raping scots Christian women, and projected their own sins on the Norse. It seems clear to me that the Scots/Celts really invited the Norse to help them boot out the germanic saxon invaders and their false Christian double standards. Of course there were a few conflicts with the scots, as there was across all cultures in those days.
Their is a world of difference between an authentic pagan and a lying aTheist.
Even today the cultural difference between saxon and Norse/Celt is evident; although it is neo-cultural in that it exists as ethical choices made by individuals who share a genetic lineage to all the tribes of Europe for the most part. But the difference being ethical: mostly a sense of hierarchical saxon monetization of even the very water we drink!
Whereas the egalitarian nature of Celt and Norse is entirely different to that. Even ww2 was fought along precisely those lines, and the ethical difference still exists within interpretations of Christianity; with saxon culture typically making every attempt to subjugate women and anyone who is not part of their hierarchical paradigm and its piss-pot hairstyles, shoes shining from bootlicking, and clean-shaven faces emulating those of the faces of women - a subconsciously sodomite culture of egotism, with their desire of subjugation being of a subtle nature. Of course the chauvinist sassenach has a domineering attitude towards women and other 'races' due to his own inferiority complex.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 12:59:18 GMT
Well this particular Viking, me, was converted to Christianity in 2006. And this only occurred through direct communion with the spirits of both Jesus and John the Baptist. I was given no instruction to shun Norse culture. And I retain the invocation of Thor for the sole specific use of dealing with fake Christians - aTheists who pretend otherwise deserve only to meet the full face of Mjolnir in all its pagan glory. Its a fascinating topic to me, but the video is rife with saxon propaganda. Only a sassenach boot-licker would term the Norse as germanic. Even today Denmark has a border with Europe - and that division predates the very concept of germany. Those cultures are very different specifically with the Norse respecting the role of women, whereas the germanic tradition is to subjugate all and sundry.The other glaring misconception is to fail to see the connection between the Celts of Ireland and Scotland and the Norse. When the Vikings arrived in Britain there was little conflict with the Scots by comparison, who incorporated the Norse far more readily than the anglo-saxons. Those sassenach typically just pretend that 'the Vikings just arrived and attacked us for no reason and raped the women'. This is the pervasive myth of the false Christian sassenach, because they were notoriously raping scots Christian women, and projected their own sins on the Norse. It seems clear to me that the Scots/Celts really invited the Norse to help them boot out the germanic saxon invaders and their false Christian double standards. Of course there were a few conflicts with the scots, as there was across all cultures in those days. Their is a world of difference between an authentic pagan and a lying aTheist. Even today the cultural difference between saxon and Norse/Celt is evident; although it is neo-cultural in that it exists as ethical choices made by individuals who share a genetic lineage to all the tribes of Europe for the most part. But the difference being ethical: mostly a sense of hierarchical saxon monetization of even the very water we drink! Whereas the egalitarian nature of Celt and Norse is entirely different to that. Even ww2 was fought along precisely those lines, and the ethical difference still exists within interpretations of Christianity; with saxon culture typically making every attempt to subjugate women and anyone who is not part of their hierarchical paradigm and its piss-pot hairstyles, shoes shining from bootlicking, and clean-shaven faces emulating those of the faces of women - a subconsciously sodomite culture of egotism, with their desire of subjugation being of a subtle nature. Of course the chauvinist sassenach has a domineering attitude towards women and other 'races' due to his own inferiority complex. This, yes, norse are only scandinavian nation, and finland is not part of it. If you see this swedish guy, he looks more CENTRAL ASIAN, with celtic blue eyes blonde haired, dalph lundgren, where as , arnold is german looking. I don't understand how can germans equate themselves with these nordic races, though ,I still agree that Teutonic Saxon knights would have been migrants from these nations, but that would not make any WASP as a nordic race.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,729
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
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Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 2, 2020 20:01:27 GMT
Well this particular Viking, me, was converted to Christianity in 2006. And this only occurred through direct communion with the spirits of both Jesus and John the Baptist. I was given no instruction to shun Norse culture. And I retain the invocation of Thor for the sole specific use of dealing with fake Christians - aTheists who pretend otherwise deserve only to meet the full face of Mjolnir in all its pagan glory. Its a fascinating topic to me, but the video is rife with saxon propaganda. Only a sassenach boot-licker would term the Norse as germanic. Even today Denmark has a border with Europe - and that division predates the very concept of germany. Those cultures are very different specifically with the Norse respecting the role of women, whereas the germanic tradition is to subjugate all and sundry. The other glaring misconception is to fail to see the connection between the Celts of Ireland and Scotland and the Norse. When the Vikings arrived in Britain there was little conflict with the Scots by comparison, who incorporated the Norse far more readily than the anglo-saxons. Those sassenach typically just pretend that 'the Vikings just arrived and attacked us for no reason and raped the women'. This is the pervasive myth of the false Christian sassenach, because they were notoriously raping scots Christian women, and projected their own sins on the Norse. It seems clear to me that the Scots/Celts really invited the Norse to help them boot out the germanic saxon invaders and their false Christian double standards. Of course there were a few conflicts with the scots, as there was across all cultures in those days. Their is a world of difference between an authentic pagan and a lying aTheist. Even today the cultural difference between saxon and Norse/Celt is evident; although it is neo-cultural in that it exists as ethical choices made by individuals who share a genetic lineage to all the tribes of Europe for the most part. But the difference being ethical: mostly a sense of hierarchical saxon monetization of even the very water we drink! Whereas the egalitarian nature of Celt and Norse is entirely different to that. Even ww2 was fought along precisely those lines, and the ethical difference still exists within interpretations of Christianity; with saxon culture typically making every attempt to subjugate women and anyone who is not part of their hierarchical paradigm and its piss-pot hairstyles, shoes shining from bootlicking, and clean-shaven faces emulating those of the faces of women - a subconsciously sodomite culture of egotism, with their desire of subjugation being of a subtle nature. Of course the chauvinist sassenach has a domineering attitude towards women and other 'races' due to his own inferiority complex. Your whole rant is just historically incorrect. There was very little to separate the Anglo Saxons from the Scandinavians in the dark ages regarding culture. The Anglo Saxons came to England from Denmark and Germany and shared the culture of Denmark and Northern Germany. The "Sassenach" worshipped Thor and Odin, had mead halls, had a social structure of Earls, curls, and slaves in the same manner as the Norse Jarls, Karls, and Thralls, they fought exactly the same way on the battlefield with the shield wall, they both spoke a Germanic language, they had similar beliefs about mythical creatures, they shared epic stories in common, and were similar in countless other ways. The only difference really was that the Anglo Saxons converted to Christianity far earlier. England was pretty much a Scandinavian nation until the Normans arrived and conquered them in 1066. The Germanic tribes of continental Europe also had their cultural origins in Scandinavia worshipping the same gods, having the same social structure, having a related language etc. Germanic culture originated in Scandinavia and spread when the Scandinavians invaded the Celtic lands of what is now modern day Germany conquering, interbreeding with, and culturally assimilating the Celtic tribes that were living there. The Anglo Saxons which you seem to have a grudge against spread from Northern Germany and Denmark to Britain. Northern Germany and Denmark at that time were pretty much culturally indistinguishable at that time so when they got to Britain, they got on very well and merged quite comfortably into the group we now call the English.
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Post by jonbain on Apr 4, 2020 19:28:56 GMT
Clovis MerovingianThe Normans were themselves just Scandinavians speaking French! If the Germans and Scandinavians were so similar then A) What on Earth was all the fighting about? B) Why has there always been a border between Denmark and Saxon Germany? C) Why does that border exist still today when quite different cultures like France and even Spain are part of European 'Greater Germany'? But that you think the Normans were not Scandinavian is woefully bad history. It never was about genetic difference, even though as lamburkpoints out, there is still significant difference anyways. As it is you miss the entire point of my Viking rant: There is a vast difference culturally as regards the ethic of a shared responsibility, and that of hierarchical domination which culminated in ww2 which always was an extension of those cultural clashes going back into the mists of time, and no doubt into the future too! Ultimately its the difference between humour and angst. Now go get a haircut, shine your shoes, count your money and make your women cover-up their hair in subservience to your domineering attitude, yer Sassenach bastard! har! har!
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,729
Likes: 1,763
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 31
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 4, 2020 21:54:49 GMT
Clovis Merovingian The Normans were themselves just Scandinavians speaking French! The Normans had abandoned Scandinavian Germanic culture for a French and Latin one. There was nothing culturally Scandinavian about the Normans by 1066.If the Germans and Scandinavians were so similar then A) What on Earth was all the fighting about? Ethnic or cultural similarity has never throughout history stopped people from fighting against one another. The Scandinavians were raiding each other constantly before they invented a better longboat and unleashed the Viking Age on Europe.
The Viking Age started because the Medieval warm period increased crop yields and led to a population explosion in Scandinavia and many wars between Viking clans. Eventually with new strides in boat technology they started raiding Europe instead and colonizing new lands in Europe and elsewhere. These lands include Iceland, Greenland, the Faroe Islands, the Orkney Isles, the Shetlands, the Outer Hebrides in Scotland, Normandy in France, Dublin in Ireland, the Danelaw in England, and North America.
"All the fighting" was about plundering others for wealth and settling new lands by conquest.
Some have also theorized a religious element to the start of the Viking age with the straw that broke the camel's back being Charlemagne's conquest and slaughter of the pagan Saxons at Verden (who worshipped Thor, Odin, Frey and all of the "Norse" gods) motivating them to strike at Christian lands for revenge or defense. I'm not convinced of this myself but its an interesting theory.B) Why has there always been a border between Denmark and Saxon Germany? Why is there a border between Sweden and Norway? Why were there borders between the seven Anglo Saxon kingdoms in dark ages England? Why was Ireland separated into many different kingdoms at the same time? Why were there borders between countless German states before their unification in the mid 1800s? Borders do exist between similar peoples, I don't know what point you're making.
Also the borders between Germany and Denmark have always been a little fuzzy and they fought wars and squabbled over whether Schleswig-Holstein was a part of Germany or Denmark.C) Why does that border exist still today when quite different cultures like France and even Spain are part of European 'Greater Germany'? I don't know what you're talking about here, the EU? Denmark is in the EU as is Sweden for that matter.But that you think the Normans were not Scandinavian is woefully bad history. Culturally no, they were not Scandinavian. Ancestrally yes (though they mixed in with the native Frankish aristocracy) but my point was that England was culturally like Scandinavia until the Normans came in and Frenchified the place with feudalism, French linguistic additions to English, chivalry and the like. My point was not based on ancestry.It never was about genetic difference, even though as lamburk points out, there is still significant difference anyways. I never mentioned anything about genetics.As it is you miss the entire point of my Viking rant: There is a vast difference culturally as regards the ethic of a shared responsibility, and that of hierarchical domination which culminated in ww2 which always was an extension of those cultural clashes going back into the mists of time, and no doubt into the future too! Hierarchical domination of people doesn't go back to the Saxons or Germans in Europe though, it goes back to the system of feudalism which were imposed upon the places by the French (admittedly by a Frankish German aristocracy, specifically Charlemagne, but these people had assimilated cultural practices from Latin Gaul of which the conquered and ruled) and arguably goes back to the Roman Empire and the Latisfundiam of the Roman elite. Feudalism is more of a Latin thing than anything else.Ultimately its the difference between humour and angst. Now go get a haircut, shine your shoes, count your money and make your women cover-up their hair in subservience to your domineering attitude, yer Sassenach bastard! har! har! I have long hair, worn shoes, not a lot of money. I love women showing their long beautiful hair and I don't really have a domineering attitude. I do have mostly English and German ancestry as well as Swiss and Swedish. But I also have alot Lowland Scots ancestry as well though the Lowland Scots are an Anglo Saxon ethnic group that the Gaelic Highlanders called Sassenach along with the English. So yeah, I am a Sassenach and proud of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 4:00:42 GMT
Clovis Merovingian The Normans were themselves just Scandinavians speaking French! If the Germans and Scandinavians were so similar thenA) What on Earth was all the fighting about? B) Why has there always been a border between Denmark and Saxon Germany? C) Why does that border exist still today when quite different cultures like France and even Spain are part of European 'Greater Germany'? But that you think the Normans were not Scandinavian is woefully bad history. It never was about genetic difference, even though as lamburk points out, there is still significant difference anyways. As it is you miss the entire point of my Viking rant: There is a vast difference culturally as regards the ethic of a shared responsibility, and that of hierarchical domination which culminated in ww2 which always was an extension of those cultural clashes going back into the mists of time, and no doubt into the future too! Ultimately its the difference between humour and angst. Now go get a haircut, shine your shoes, count your money and make your women cover-up their hair in subservience to your domineering attitude, yer Sassenach bastard! har! har! Not just that, but vikings also had culture, similar to an OLD INDO EUROPEAN, which was fire worshipping. Arabs had labelled these vikings pagan with a derogatory term, known as al majoos, or heathens or fire worshippers, which was a tradition maintaintained by the zoroastrians also. As far as I know, germans never worshpped fire deities
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