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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 28, 2018 4:43:16 GMT
Can't people learn to solve things by working together or through a mediator? Why do a war? Society technically teaches that this is not the way to solve problems. So...what's going on here?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 30, 2018 15:51:35 GMT
Ephesians 6:12 KJV [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 KJV
[3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Listed in the link is Young's Literal Translation of this passage in the Bible it basically shows what the Greek being translated into English completely literally would say. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+10&version=YLT It says we do not wage war according to the flesh; the word after in the KJV is synonymous to this. It then follows by explaining what he means. He means that Paul and the Christians wage war not with carnal weapons but with weapons powerful to God for bringing down strongholds, reasonings (or imaginings) against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into obedience to Christ. This is showing how Paul and Christians wages spiritual warfare in living in obedience to Christ and against their fleshly sinful nature. The context as you can read it for yourself is Paul is making a statement against those who think he and his people are walking in the flesh. This is 2nd Corinthians 2 "and I beseech [you], that, being present, I may not have courage, with the confidence with which I reckon to be bold against certain reckoning us as walking according to the flesh." Or in the KJV, "But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh." The warfare he is talking about is the spiritual warfare with sin, and that he is not using the carnal weapons or weapons of the flesh to fight sin (in which case he'd lose the fight) but instead the weapons of the spirit to fight his sinful nature (the flesh) and bring every thought in captivity to Christ. This has nothing to do with whether it is ever okay to wage war or not. Linked are commentaries that explain this further biblehub.com/commentaries/2_corinthians/10-3.htmShould I quote all of Ephesians 6? It talks about the armor of God which is put on for spiritual warfare. God’s word is referred to as our sword. Can you show me an example in the Bible of an apostle using physical weapons to fight in a war? Matthew 26:51-52 KJV [51] And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. [52] Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Revelation 13:9-10 KJV [9] If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Revelation 12:10-11 KJV [10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. [11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Did any of the disciples or apostles fight for their life? Did Paul fight back when he was stoned? Did Stephen? Did John the Baptist?Did James? Did Christ fight for His? Did any martyr fight for their life? What’s the point when we overcome death in the end anyway? |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jul 30, 2018 16:20:38 GMT
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Post by mazarick on Jul 30, 2018 17:45:33 GMT
I looked up some quotes:
1. "War is the failure of diplomacy" Tony Benn
2. "There must be law, steadily invoked and respected by all nations, for without law, the world promises only such meager justice as the pity of the strong upon the weak." Dwight Eisenhower
3. "As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable." Albert Einstein
4. "What Reason weaves, by Passion is undone." Alexander Pope
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 30, 2018 17:48:23 GMT
Yes, Christ will, not you or me |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jul 30, 2018 17:55:24 GMT
Yes, Christ will, not you or me Why Baptists use the military chaplains?  Obviously the Bible forbids us to kill people but the Scripture shows how king David killed his enemies and so on. It's Bible! Not Leo Tolstoy who says let evil exist in the world. (I'm referring to the Nazi times.) |
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 30, 2018 18:04:09 GMT
Yes, Christ will, not you or me Why Baptists use the military chaplains? Obviously the Bible forbids us to kill people but the Scripture shows how king David killed his enemies and so on. It's Bible! Not Leo Tolstoy who says let evil exist in the world. (I'm referring to the Nazi times.) “Why Baptists use the military chaplains?” I don’t know. Not all baptists are the same, you should know this. Which covenant are we under? Where does Christ command us to kill? Have any of the church fathers/apostles/disciples/saints killed anyone in God’s name? |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jul 30, 2018 18:14:32 GMT
But the Dogmas of baptism have long been established for all. Shrug No one from the Church ordered to kill but everyone knows the stories from the Bible.
Leo Tolstoy and his followers did not understand the Bible!
As I wrote on many forums discuss this issue and no one can find an answer that would satisfy him.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 30, 2018 20:18:00 GMT
So some of you are saying there's no growth without war? I don't understand. War is a setback. Your country loses money, resources, people, etc. Shrug
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 30, 2018 20:31:49 GMT
But the Dogmas of baptism have long been established for all. Shrug No one from the Church ordered to kill but everyone knows the stories from the Bible. Leo Tolstoy and his followers did not understand the Bible! As I wrote on many forums discuss this issue and no one can find an answer that would satisfy him. Christians are to follow Christ, right? |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jul 30, 2018 20:39:57 GMT
But the Dogmas of baptism have long been established for all.  No one from the Church ordered to kill but everyone knows the stories from the Bible. Leo Tolstoy and his followers did not understand the Bible! As I wrote on many forums discuss this issue and no one can find an answer that would satisfy him. Christians are to follow Christ, right? Of course! But our life is a sinful reality.. what did you do if you lived during world war II? Serve The Reich? Am I right? |
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 30, 2018 20:56:02 GMT
Christians are to follow Christ, right? Of course! But our life is a sinful reality.. what did you do if you lived during world war II? Serve The Reich? Am I right? Why would I serve the Reich? What the Nazis believed was contrary to the Bible. |
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 30, 2018 23:34:55 GMT
Christians are to follow Christ, right? Of course! But our life is a sinful reality.. what did you do if you lived during world war II? Serve The Reich? Am I right? Okay so we as Christians are to follow Christ, you agree. So did Christ ever command us to wage war? Did He ever tell us to kill? Did He ever tell us to fight back? What did He tell us to do? Matthew 5:38-48 KJV [38] Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: [39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [40] And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. [41] And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. [42] Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. [43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. |
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 31, 2018 2:10:20 GMT
Listed in the link is Young's Literal Translation of this passage in the Bible it basically shows what the Greek being translated into English completely literally would say. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+10&version=YLT It says we do not wage war according to the flesh; the word after in the KJV is synonymous to this. It then follows by explaining what he means. He means that Paul and the Christians wage war not with carnal weapons but with weapons powerful to God for bringing down strongholds, reasonings (or imaginings) against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into obedience to Christ. This is showing how Paul and Christians wages spiritual warfare in living in obedience to Christ and against their fleshly sinful nature. The context as you can read it for yourself is Paul is making a statement against those who think he and his people are walking in the flesh. This is 2nd Corinthians 2 "and I beseech [you], that, being present, I may not have courage, with the confidence with which I reckon to be bold against certain reckoning us as walking according to the flesh." Or in the KJV, "But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh." The warfare he is talking about is the spiritual warfare with sin, and that he is not using the carnal weapons or weapons of the flesh to fight sin (in which case he'd lose the fight) but instead the weapons of the spirit to fight his sinful nature (the flesh) and bring every thought in captivity to Christ. This has nothing to do with whether it is ever okay to wage war or not. Linked are commentaries that explain this further biblehub.com/commentaries/2_corinthians/10-3.htmShould I quote all of Ephesians 6? It talks about the armor of God which is put on for spiritual warfare. God’s word is referred to as our sword. Can you show me an example in the Bible of an apostle using physical weapons to fight in a war? Matthew 26:51-52 KJV [51] And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. [52] Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Revelation 13:9-10 KJV [9] If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Revelation 12:10-11 KJV [10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. [11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Did any of the disciples or apostles fight for their life? Did Paul fight back when he was stoned? Did Stephen? Did John the Baptist?Did James? Did Christ fight for His? Did any martyr fight for their life? What’s the point when we overcome death in the end anyway? I'm not going to get into a pointless religious debate with you again. There is the example of the just wars in the Old Testament, there is the verse in Romans which states that government has the power of the sword for purposes of punishing evil doers, and many other things but this misses the point. Stupidity doesn't become any less stupid when you try to justify it using scripture. So I have a question. Imagine this scenario. You are the king of a Middle Eastern country. ISIS is coming to invade into your territory. If they win they will kill millions of your people, enslave a great deal more, rape your women including your wife and daughters (and sexually enslave them), and will put your country under an Islamic theocracy where your Christian population will have to convert to Islam or become second class citizens called demi's who have to pay a tax. Will you call your countries armies to war to defend yourself and your wife and daughters from harm? If they win and the ISIS fighters come for you ready to rape your wife and daughters, enslave your children, and burn you in a cage, do you pick up a gun and fight back or do you just accept your fate? |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 31, 2018 2:15:35 GMT
Despite being a pacifist like Jesus. I find it silly for different denominations of Christianity to argue if war is right. I think it's best they ask how much faith they have in God keeping them safe and allowing certain things to happen to test their faith rather then try to justify or not justify war. So I think the real issue here is how much they trust God. Shrug
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 31, 2018 2:44:29 GMT
Despite being a pacifist like Jesus. I find it silly for different denominations of Christianity to argue if war is right. I think it's best they ask how much faith they have in God keeping them safe and allowing certain things to happen to test their faith rather then try to justify or not justify war. So I think the real issue here is how much they trust God. Shrug Mhmm, and we have examples in the Bible of the apostles who had so much faith that they didn’t lift a finger in defense of themselves because they trusted that God would protect them. Whether some people think this is stupid or not is irrelevant. What is relevant are the examples and commandments we have in scripture, even the example of Christ, and we should live by those examples and commandments. |
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No one from the Church ordered to kill but everyone knows the stories from the Bible.