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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 28, 2018 4:43:16 GMT
Can't people learn to solve things by working together or through a mediator? Why do a war? Society technically teaches that this is not the way to solve problems. So...what's going on here?
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jul 28, 2018 8:01:30 GMT
Because people are stupid.... Shrug
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 28, 2018 8:51:56 GMT
I agree with Diamond though
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 30, 2018 6:42:50 GMT
Even the Bible says there is a time for war. There are always going to be bad people who are going to want to subjugate and opress others. These people do not listen to diplomacy, they only listen to strength.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 30, 2018 6:59:54 GMT
Even the Bible says there is a time for war. There are always going to be bad people who are going to want to subjugate and opress others. These people do not listen to diplomacy, they only listen to strength. You think that's in support of war so no turning the other cheek like Jesus says? And I think personally you can have war without physically hurting someone and still love your neighbor. War could just be separation based on different views/beliefs Shrug
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 30, 2018 7:12:40 GMT
Even the Bible says there is a time for war. There are always going to be bad people who are going to want to subjugate and opress others. These people do not listen to diplomacy, they only listen to strength. You think that's in support of war so no turning the other cheek like Jesus says? And I think personally you can have war without physically hurting someone and still love your neighbor. War could just be separation based on different views/beliefs Turning the other cheek is for interpersonal interactions not international ones. God in the Old Testament sent the nation of Israel to war many, many times. If everyone turned the other cheek during WW2 the Nazis would be in control of Europe and maybe the world, the Jews would've been exterminated and you wouldn't be alive today because Hitler would've killed every man, woman, and child alive with Slavic blood. (well, he would've left some of them alive for slaves.)
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 30, 2018 8:33:06 GMT
You think that's in support of war so no turning the other cheek like Jesus says? And I think personally you can have war without physically hurting someone and still love your neighbor. War could just be separation based on different views/beliefs Turning the other cheek is for interpersonal interactions not international ones. God in the Old Testament sent the nation of Israel to war many, many times. If everyone turned the other cheek during WW2 the Nazis would be in control of Europe and maybe the world, the Jews would've been exterminated and you wouldn't be alive today because Hitler would've killed every man, woman, and child alive with Slavic blood. (well, he would've left some of them alive for slaves.) Ephesians 6:12 KJV [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 KJV [3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 30, 2018 9:31:32 GMT
Turning the other cheek is for interpersonal interactions not international ones. God in the Old Testament sent the nation of Israel to war many, many times. If everyone turned the other cheek during WW2 the Nazis would be in control of Europe and maybe the world, the Jews would've been exterminated and you wouldn't be alive today because Hitler would've killed every man, woman, and child alive with Slavic blood. (well, he would've left some of them alive for slaves.) Ephesians 6:12 KJV [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 KJV [3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. It takes a monumental level of stupidity to just sit around and let the enemy invade you, kill your men, rape your women, and enslave your children. Out of the many things I've had to explain, this is the one that shocks me most. I feel like I am trying to explain something to children. We fought the Nazis because we had to fight the Nazis. If the Nazis had won they would've extinguished countless millions of people, perhaps billions of people from the face of the earth, enveloped most of the planet with a hateful, genocidal, and totalitarian ideology, and plunged humanity in a dark age in which it may never again recover. What is your solution Elizabeth? TALK TO THE NAZIS? Neville Chamberlain tried that, the Nazis laughed at him, lied to him, and broke their agreement with him anyways. Sometimes it takes violent military force to stop bad men from crushing those weaker then them beneath them. God sanctioned many wars for the nation of Israel in the Old Testament. To claim that there is no such thing as a just war Biblically is to call God inconsistent as in the Old Testament there were many just wars called by God. What, it was okay for Israel to do it back then but no one at all can do it today? That just went out the window? The Bible even says this. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+15%3A3&version=KJV
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jul 30, 2018 10:22:30 GMT
Ephesians 6:12 KJV [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 KJV [3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. It takes a monumental level of stupidity to just sit around and let the enemy invade you, kill your men, rape your women, and enslave your children. Out of the many things I've had to explain, this is the one that shocks me most. I feel like I am trying to explain something to children. We fought the Nazis because we had to fight the Nazis. If the Nazis had won they would've extinguished countless millions of people, perhaps billions of people from the face of the earth, enveloped most of the planet with a hateful, genocidal, and totalitarian ideology, and plunged humanity in a dark age in which it may never again recover. What is your solution Elizabeth? TALK TO THE NAZIS? Neville Chamberlain tried that, the Nazis laughed at him, lied to him, and broke their agreement with him anyways. Sometimes it takes violent military force to stop bad men from crushing those weaker then them beneath them. God sanctioned many wars for the nation of Israel in the Old Testament. To claim that there is no such thing as a just war Biblically is to call God inconsistent as in the Old Testament there were many just wars called by God. What, it was okay for Israel to do it back then but no one at all can do it today? That just went out the window? The Bible even says this. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+15%3A3&version=KJVI'm always talking about..if you believe in the Bible you need to consider it all from Bible. Not separate quotes from the Bible. The Apostle Paul in his message simply emphasized the importance for a person to fight his passions and so on.... Of course the Bible forbids us to kill people! But it did not cancel those places where God blessed Israel to fight the enemy..obviously all war is the result of our sinful breed and this is the punishment of God!
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 30, 2018 10:32:06 GMT
Turning the other cheek is for interpersonal interactions not international ones. God in the Old Testament sent the nation of Israel to war many, many times. If everyone turned the other cheek during WW2 the Nazis would be in control of Europe and maybe the world, the Jews would've been exterminated and you wouldn't be alive today because Hitler would've killed every man, woman, and child alive with Slavic blood. (well, he would've left some of them alive for slaves.) Ephesians 6:12 KJV [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 KJV [3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Listed in the link is Young's Literal Translation of this passage in the Bible it basically shows what the Greek being translated into English completely literally would say. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+10&version=YLT It says we do not wage war according to the flesh; the word after in the KJV is synonymous to this. It then follows by explaining what he means. He means that Paul and the Christians wage war not with carnal weapons but with weapons powerful to God for bringing down strongholds, reasonings (or imaginings) against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into obedience to Christ. This is showing how Paul and Christians wages spiritual warfare in living in obedience to Christ and against their fleshly sinful nature. The context as you can read it for yourself is Paul is making a statement against those who think he and his people are walking in the flesh. This is 2nd Corinthians 2 "and I beseech [you], that, being present, I may not have courage, with the confidence with which I reckon to be bold against certain reckoning us as walking according to the flesh." Or in the KJV, "But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh." The warfare he is talking about is the spiritual warfare with sin, and that he is not using the carnal weapons or weapons of the flesh to fight sin (in which case he'd lose the fight) but instead the weapons of the spirit to fight his sinful nature (the flesh) and bring every thought in captivity to Christ. This has nothing to do with whether it is ever okay to wage war or not. Linked are commentaries that explain this further biblehub.com/commentaries/2_corinthians/10-3.htm
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 30, 2018 10:59:28 GMT
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. It takes a monumental level of stupidity to just sit around and let the enemy invade you, kill your men, rape your women, and enslave your children. Out of the many things I've had to explain, this is the one that shocks me most. I feel like I am trying to explain something to children. We fought the Nazis because we had to fight the Nazis. If the Nazis had won they would've extinguished countless millions of people, perhaps billions of people from the face of the earth, enveloped most of the planet with a hateful, genocidal, and totalitarian ideology, and plunged humanity in a dark age in which it may never again recover. What is your solution Elizabeth? TALK TO THE NAZIS? Neville Chamberlain tried that, the Nazis laughed at him, lied to him, and broke their agreement with him anyways. Sometimes it takes violent military force to stop bad men from crushing those weaker then them beneath them. God sanctioned many wars for the nation of Israel in the Old Testament. To claim that there is no such thing as a just war Biblically is to call God inconsistent as in the Old Testament there were many just wars called by God. What, it was okay for Israel to do it back then but no one at all can do it today? That just went out the window? The Bible even says this. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+15%3A3&version=KJVI'm always talking about..if you believe in the Bible you need to consider it all from Bible. Not separate quotes from the Bible. The Apostle Paul in his message simply emphasized the importance for a person to fight his passions and so on.... Of course the Bible forbids us to kill people! But it did not cancel those places where God blessed Israel to fight the enemy..obviously all war is the result of our sinful breed and this is the punishment of God! You are right about that verse being about fighting passions or sin. However the commandment that says thou shalt not kill could better be translated thou shalt not commit murder. www.guidelines.org/devotional/sixth-commandment-thou-shalt-kill/
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kusler
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Post by kusler on Jul 30, 2018 11:51:46 GMT
Can't people learn to solve things by working together or through a mediator? Why do a war? Society technically teaches that this is not the way to solve problems. So...what's going on here? War is the drive to growth, or the will to power of a nation or group, playing out on an international basis.
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yontal
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Post by yontal on Jul 30, 2018 12:24:31 GMT
Their are many reasons for war as for war being a growth I really Think that's a bunch of bull. as where have we learned all through our history is war and death it dates back to before I even know. but it always driver by greed,power,stupidity and even religion hitler started a war against Jews just because they existed if their will ever be peace probably. not I really think the only to fix this world is to just burn it and start anew so no I don't think we will ever experience peace as we're already to corrupt to fix but hey on the bright side at least you can have a few funny wars like Australias great emu war where we lost to a dam bird.
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kusler
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Post by kusler on Jul 30, 2018 12:48:35 GMT
A nation wants to grow, wants territory and rescources, wants not only to sustain itself, but also to "rise above" if I can put it like this. The greed which you describe, or rather the avarice, IS this drive to growth. Also saying that Hitler wanted to conquer half of Europe just because he hated the jewish ethnicity is nonsense, he wanted a new european empire as a successor to the previous two, that is, the Holy Roman Empire and the Kaiserreich, thus the title "The Third Reich".
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Post by Brythonic Warrior on Jul 30, 2018 13:38:46 GMT
War is part of the Natural Order. Peace is only a temporary period, while war is permanent, and is fought on many levels. Humans fight against humans, nature fights against nature, and often, humanity and nature clash.
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