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Post by Elizabeth on May 13, 2018 10:30:26 GMT
Are you for it or against? And why?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:10:11 GMT
Love makes a marriage strong. If I was ever in an arranged marriage with someone I don't love and want nothing to do with then I would request my own bedroom with a lock. He can be a roommate. If he enters my room he will get hurt! I'll only agree to such terms. If I really want kids then I'll adopt them. "Love" fails in marriages people choose on their own, we can see this in any googled set of statistics in regards to modern marriages...all of which were premised on personal choice. "Love" does make marriage strong, but a strict sensual "erotic" base not just quickly arodes but blinds the individual in making any long term choice. "Eroticism" is an inherent part of any marriage considering marriages have an inherent element, but the problem occurs in the respect that it is the beginning premise in many "choices" people make in regards to choosing a long-term significant other. In all truth if I was married to a woman who put a lock on the door I would kick it down and....how to word this....she is my wife, I will leave it at that. If she wants to punch me in the face or break a plate over my head...well that would be real cute. Is it politically correct? No, but politics does little to solve most peoples problems...one only has to look around them to observe this. The nature of "love" and its many facets (eros, philios, agape) need to be balanced out if the relationship is to exist in the long run and due to lack of group cohesion and the "blindness" people willingly accept during the dating process, eroticism varely rarely moves from philios to agape. The nature of love is structured over time and cannot be an instantaneous experience without this very same proof of time. The "instant gratification" culture the modern world is premised in does alot to stifle any potential long term commitment as any difficulty is percieved as failure and not for what it is: difficulty. The modern concept of marriage has been raised way above the level of common sense in regards to the standards that define it...it is defined as a form of personal gratification (more for the woman than the man) rather than a bond between two people working through life. |
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Post by Elizabeth on May 16, 2018 23:10:45 GMT
I think every thing that remove or limit your freedom is a poison. That poison may not kill you instantly but it would bring pain and suffering to your life which will finally destroy your life. I agree!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:13:26 GMT
Failure and don't work for many people. Marriage is an important and critical decision in your life. So you should choose and decide by yourself. Arranged marriages may be OK in a village-like or tribal society and work for such communities BUT not in modern societies. I think every thing that remove or limit your freedom is a poison. That poison may not kill you instantly but it would bring pain and suffering to your life which will finally destroy your life. Marriage has failed because of modern civilization and the "do what thou will" philosophy which defines our era. Marriage is a form of mediation between extremes (man/woman, celibacy/lust, individual/group) not the lack of balance modern society promotes through individuation. |
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Post by Elizabeth on May 16, 2018 23:17:45 GMT
@eodnhoj7 I don't call that a marriage built on love but lust. A marriage is till death to you part and a promise to stick through the good and the bad times. People don't know what love or marriage is. That's the problem. Yeah a real marriage should be like that as you put it but I meant if it was ever forced on me as in an arranged marriage as someone tried to do before I'd beat the guy with a bat after he enters my room and then I'll stay with my brothers. If anything happens again my brothers will take care of him  |
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 16, 2018 23:17:58 GMT
Love makes a marriage strong. If I was ever in an arranged marriage with someone I don't love and want nothing to do with then I would request my own bedroom with a lock. He can be a roommate. If he enters my room he will get hurt! I'll only agree to such terms. If I really want kids then I'll adopt them. "Love" fails in marriages people choose on their own, we can see this in any googled set of statistics in regards to modern marriages...all of which were premised on personal choice. "Love" does make marriage strong, but a strict sensual "erotic" base not just quickly arodes but blinds the individual in making any long term choice. "Eroticism" is an inherent part of any marriage considering marriages have an inherent element, but the problem occurs in the respect that it is the beginning premise in many "choices" people make in regards to choosing a long-term significant other. In all truth if I was married to a woman who put a lock on the door I would kick it down and....how to word this....she is my wife, I will leave it at that. If she wants to punch me in the face or break a plate over my head...well that would be real cute. Is it politically correct? No, but politics does little to solve most peoples problems...one only has to look around them to observe this. The nature of "love" and its many facets (eros, philios, agape) need to be balanced out if the relationship is to exist in the long run and due to lack of group cohesion and the "blindness" people willingly accept during the dating process, eroticism varely rarely moves from philios to agape. The nature of love is structured over time and cannot be an instantaneous experience without this very same proof of time. The "instant gratification" culture the modern world is premised in does alot to stifle any potential long term commitment as any difficulty is percieved as failure and not for what it is: difficulty. The modern concept of marriage has been raised way above the level of common sense in regards to the standards that define it...it is defined as a form of personal gratification (more for the woman than the man) rather than a bond between two people working through life.Sounds like you’re confusing love with lust🤷🏼♂️ |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:20:06 GMT
In regards to the love and lust comment reread:
"Love" does make marriage strong, but a strict sensual "erotic" base not just quickly arodes but blinds the individual in making any long term choice. "Eroticism" is an inherent part of any marriage considering marriages have an inherent element, but the problem occurs in the respect that it is the beginning premise in many "choices" people make in regards to choosing a long-term significant other.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:23:06 GMT
@eodnhoj7 I don't call that a marriage built on love but lust. A marriage is till death to you part and a promise to stick through the good and the bad times. People don't know what love or marriage is. That's the problem. Yeah a real marriage should be like that as you put it but I meant if it was ever forced on me as in an arranged marriage as someone tried to do before I'd beat the guy with a bat after he enters my room What I argued earlier:Arranged marriages, when balanced with the free will of the potential participants, appears not just the most practical methodology but one which maintains group cohesion. Contrary to modern views of the nuclear family, families at the larger level are joined through the act of marriage; hence marriage is a community involved activity and not strictly one relegated to the individual "lovers".
and then I'll stay with my brothers. If anything happens again my brothers will take care of him  Reread your Christian Scriptures...and for the record you would be surprised what does not frighten some men...you really would be surprised...
1 Corinthians 7:1-16
Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have relations with a woman.” 2 But since immorality is occurring, each man should have relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
Colossians 3:18-19
18 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
Hebrews 13:4-7
4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. 5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” 6 So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?” 7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.
Mark 10:6-9
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 16, 2018 23:27:44 GMT
In regards to the love and lust comment reread: "Love" does make marriage strong, but a strict sensual "erotic" base not just quickly arodes but blinds the individual in making any long term choice. "Eroticism" is an inherent part of any marriage considering marriages have an inherent element, but the problem occurs in the respect that it is the beginning premise in many "choices" people make in regards to choosing a long-term significant other. That problem only occurs when the choice you’re making doesn’t have a moral foundation which should be taught by your parents. An arrangement only shows that your parents failed or neglected to teach you well enough from that foundation for you to make a choice on your own. |
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Post by Elizabeth on May 16, 2018 23:28:47 GMT
@eodnhoj7 I don't call that a marriage built on love but lust. A marriage is till death to you part and a promise to stick through the good and the bad times. People don't know what love or marriage is. That's the problem. Yeah a real marriage should be like that as you put it but I meant if it was ever forced on me as in an arranged marriage as someone tried to do before I'd beat the guy with a bat after he enters my room and then I'll stay with my brothers. If anything happens again my brothers will take care of him Reread your Christian Scriptures...and for the record you would be surprised what does not frighten some men...you really would be surprised...
1 Corinthians 7:1-16
Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have relations with a woman.” 2 But since immorality is occurring, each man should have relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
Colossians 3:18-19
18 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
Hebrews 13:4-7
4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. 5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” 6 So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?” 7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.
Mark 10:6-9
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Ephesians 5:25-33
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
And this kind of love.....
1 Corinthians 13
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails.
So yes is what I will agree to on my wedding day as according to scripture.  (These colors are bugging me. Doesn't want to fix ugh. Whatever) |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:28:53 GMT
In regards to the love and lust comment reread: "Love" does make marriage strong, but a strict sensual "erotic" base not just quickly arodes but blinds the individual in making any long term choice. "Eroticism" is an inherent part of any marriage considering marriages have an inherent element, but the problem occurs in the respect that it is the beginning premise in many "choices" people make in regards to choosing a long-term significant other. Reread the Song of Songs in the Old testament...eroticism is an inherent "part" of the marriage...not the "whole". God does not hate "sex" nor "eroticism", rather it's imbalance and idolatry. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:33:48 GMT
In regards to the love and lust comment reread: "Love" does make marriage strong, but a strict sensual "erotic" base not just quickly arodes but blinds the individual in making any long term choice. "Eroticism" is an inherent part of any marriage considering marriages have an inherent element, but the problem occurs in the respect that it is the beginning premise in many "choices" people make in regards to choosing a long-term significant other. That problem only occurs when the choice you’re making doesn’t have a moral foundation which should be taught by your parents. An arrangement only shows that your parents didn’t teach you well enough for you to make a choice on your own. If parents are not directly involved within their childrens lives (teaching from practical experience) they are not teaching them anything of value. The father and mother were directly involved with their children in agrarian and tribal societies until the beginning of the industrial revolution when the family was split up for factory work. If all a parent does is teach a child to think for himself, then the parents must logically be overruled as the sole authority and the power inevitably ends with the child. Now are we going back to those "days", no. But it gives a standard of measurement to compare differs in times and cultures in order to reason through the problems in our own. What an arrangement does is observe the long term relationship potential a child may not be able to see for himself/herself while balancing individual character traits etc. Muslim countries apply this and their family structures are "generally" (emphasis on the word general) more stable compared to Christain families which are no worse or better than secular institutional marriages.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 16, 2018 23:34:46 GMT
In regards to the love and lust comment reread: "Love" does make marriage strong, but a strict sensual "erotic" base not just quickly arodes but blinds the individual in making any long term choice. "Eroticism" is an inherent part of any marriage considering marriages have an inherent element, but the problem occurs in the respect that it is the beginning premise in many "choices" people make in regards to choosing a long-term significant other. Reread the Song of Songs in the Old testament...eroticism is an inherent "part" of the marriage...not the "whole". God does not hate "sex" nor "eroticism", rather it's imbalance and idolatry.Of course God doesn't hate it. He made it for the married couple to have kids. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:39:19 GMT
Yes BUT it must be built on love.
Ephesians 5:25-33
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
And this kind of love.....
1 Corinthians 13
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails.
So yes is what I will agree to on my wedding day as according to scripture.
And how will you know that you future husband "loves" you if you do not know him. Most people completely change after the marriage and any "flowers on the doorstep" does not always last. If you are talking about marrying a long term friend, then yes you can get a general understanding, but other than that it is strictly statistics.
I'll tell you the truth, and will play the part of the bad guy, if "love" is what you require before being married you will not find it unless you have some long term male friend from youth. On the other hand, marriages can end in love so the ball is not entirely out of your court.
This just goes back to the problem of individualism within western culture, the standard of measurements are so subjective neither party can either understand or satisfy the needs of the other.
The love you argue, appears to me, self-centered as the act of marriage is a strict bond. If the husband has "needs", and those are not taken care of because it makes you feel uncomfortable, this eliminates the marriage contract (and vice versa for the woman). What you are asking for is not a marriage but strictly friendship. Marriage, while necessitating friendship as the most important element, is not limited to strictly just friendship but sensual intimacy, procreation, etc. Eroticism, through the orgasm, is statistically shown to increase fertility and pregnancy. The problem occurs when it is taken out of the context of procreation and unity.
(These colors are bugging me. Doesn't want to fix ugh. Whatever) |
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Post by Elizabeth on May 16, 2018 23:46:47 GMT
Yes BUT it must be built on love.
Ephesians 5:25-33
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
And this kind of love.....
1 Corinthians 13
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails.
So yes is what I will agree to on my wedding day as according to scripture.
And how will you know that you future husband "loves" you if you do not know him. Most people completely change after the marriage and any "flowers on the doorstep" does not always last. If you are talking about marrying a long term friend, then yes you can get a general understanding, but other than that it is strictly statistics.
I'll tell you the truth, and will play the part of the bad guy, if "love" is what you require before being married you will not find it unless you have some long term male friend from youth. On the other hand, marriages can end in love so the ball is not entirely out of your court.
This just goes back to the problem of individualism within western culture, the standard of measurements are so subjective neither party can either understand or satisfy the needs of the other.
The love you argue, appears to me, self-centered as the act of marriage is a strict bond. If the husband has "needs", and those are not taken care of because it makes you feel uncomfortable, this eliminates the marriage contract (and vice versa for the woman). What you are asking for is not a marriage but strictly friendship. Marriage, while necessitating friendship as the most important element, is not limited to strictly just friendship but sensual intimacy, procreation, etc. Eroticism, through the orgasm, is statistically shown to increase fertility and pregnancy. The problem occurs when it is taken out of the context of procreation and unity.
(These colors are bugging me. Doesn't want to fix ugh. Whatever) Basically you look at how much they value the relationship. If they care about it they won't hurt it and if they don't care then you'll know. But it takes two. Loving each other through the good and bad times until death. And it's not taken out of context because Christianity is built only on love. Matthew 22:36-40 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. This is why only a Christian husband for me who agrees to thia all. I wouldn't want to be the first in my family to marry a spouse who believes in divorce since a marriage is till death do you part! |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 23:54:40 GMT
Basically you look at how much they value the relationship. If they care about it they won't hurt it and if they don't care then you'll know. But it takes two. Loving each other through the good and bad times until death. And it's not taken out of context because Christianity is built only on love. Matthew 22:36-40 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. This is why only a Christian husband for me who agrees to thia all. I wouldn't want to be the first in my family to marry a spouse who believes in divorce since a marriage is till death do you part! I grew up with the no divorce/no sex/etc mentality...by choice as my parents did not agree to it. Went to catholic college/seminary, watched christian couples and their problem, etc. Marriage, in modern christianity, is pretty much dead...along with the majority of christianity. Unless some Elijah figure comes forth Christianity will implode...it has become to weak and effiminate and lacks the necessary strength to give form to life. Most christian women are christian because they were raised that way and had no choice, hence a power struggle ensues in the marriage as she is dealing with paternal issues due to pressure from modern society.
If the man you "love" does not want to have sex with you, you are headed for trouble. I understand one partner may not be in the mood, that is normal, but when a woman tells him when or when not to have sex their is no "relationship based upon mediation" but rather a power play.
And I have to go because of time, will get back to this...
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