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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 7:58:49 GMT
www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/johns-story-why-i-left-eastern-orthodoxy-for-evangelicalism/“I would have caved had I not begun reading the Bible the Baptists had given me,” John says with a smile. “As I began reading Scripture, I understood Jesus to be the only way to God. I realized I did not need the Orthodox church or even a priest to be my mediator, for Jesus was the mediator between me and the Father.” Though John does not use the term, it is clear from his testimony that he had acquired an unshakable belief in the Reformation doctrine of sola scriptura. “I realized that the Bible was the authority, even over the Church. The Bible was true, and the Church with all its traditions and rituals was wrong.” What do those who are members of the Orthodox Church think of this and the rest of what is said in the article?
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 8:27:36 GMT
Bible says your only mediator between you and God is Jesus. Anything else is false. Shrug
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 8:31:41 GMT
the gypsy 'wise man' did not understand the Bible well!
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 8:34:48 GMT
the gypsy 'wise man' did not understand the Bible well! Surely not all Romanians are gypsies, you could try being a bit less shallow. Perhaps being shallow is your overall issue.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 8:37:36 GMT
The priest never confronted us in our sins,” he says, with a mixture of grief and anger. “I didn’t have a Bible, but no one encouraged me to read one anyway.”
The priests didn't care if he sinned and didn't tell him to read the bible? So was the priest trying to be "god" to them? O.o
Paul said we are dead in sins. So I began to ask myself, ‘How can a dead person do good works?'” He can't.
He pauses for a moment, looks at me intently, and says, “Baptists preach that ‘You must be born again.'” Well, Jesus preached it first.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 8:46:57 GMT
He says that the Bible is against the prayers of the saints but - The saints pray prayerfully: a) during life: God Himself commanded to apply to the prayer intercession of the saints: "God (Abimelech) said to him ... Abraham will pray for you and you will live ... And Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech" (Gen.20: 6 -7: 17). "Go to My servant Job ... Job will pray for you, for only his face I will accept ... Did as the Lord commanded them - and the Lord received Job's face" (Job 42: 8-9). "And the whole people said to Samuel, Pray for your servants ..." Samuel said to the people: "... and I also will not allow myself to sin before the Lord, to stop praying for you" (1 Sam.12: 19-23). "We ... do not cease to pray for you" (Col. 1: 9; Eph. 1:16; 2Col. 1: 11). (b) ... after death: if the prayers of the saints are strong before God during their lifetime, and if their love for their fellow beings extends to self-sacrifice (cf. Isa. 32: 31; Rom. 9: 3) The prayers of the saints are pleasing to God "The eyes of the Lord are turned to the righteous and his ears to their prayer, but the face of the Lord against those who do evil, to destroy them from the earth" (1 Pet.3: 12; Ps.33: 16-17). "The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous" (Proverbs 15:29). "Whoever rejects his ear from hearing the law, then prayer is an abomination" (28: 8). "There is much that can be strengthened (zealous) prayer of the righteous" (James 5: 16, compare Jak.17-18). Protestants say: 1) We have one mediator and intercessor - Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2: 5, compare Romans 8:34, 1 John 2: 1, Hebrews 7:25, 9:15). In these places, Jesus Christ is called "Mediator" - "one mediator" because he was "giving himself for the redemption of all" (1 Tim. 2: 6). He is one Mediator - the Redeemer, and not only the Advocate - a prayer book. The intercessors, according to the word of God, have a lot of prayer books: "The Spirit intercedes for us" (Rom. 8:26); "Delivered us from such a near death ... at the request of many" (2 Cor. 1: 10-11); "You do not ask for this people ... and do not intercede for Me" (Jer. 7:16). Therefore, the intercession of the Lord Jesus Christ does not exclude the intercession of the saints who, for their intercession prayers, draw on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their intercession prayers and help people not with their own power, but with the power of the same Christ. 2) The appeal to the saints humiliates the petition of Jesus Christ. Where is it said in the Holy Scriptures? Then, in general, prayers for others will also humiliate the intercession of Jesus Christ, and therefore are unnecessary. In this case, why in the Word of God is the commandment: "Pray for one another ... can the prayer of the righteous greatly strengthen?" (James 5:16). Why did Jesus Christ command: "Pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you?" (Mt. 5:44). Why does the apostle ask for prayers for himself? (Rom. 15:30, Ep. 6: 18-19, Col. 4: 3, Phil. 1:19, etc.). The apostle, who called Jesus Christ as the only Mediator, asks "to pray, pray, pray, give thanks for all men" and testify that "it is good and acceptable for our Savior God" (1 Tim. 2: 1-3). Protestants say: 1) We have one mediator and intercessor - Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2: 5, compare Romans 8:34, 1 John 2: 1, Hebrews 7:25, 9:15). In these places, Jesus Christ is called "Mediator" - "one mediator" because he was "giving himself for the redemption of all" (1 Tim. 2: 6). He is one Mediator - the Redeemer, and not only the Advocate - a prayer book. The intercessors, according to the word of God, have a lot of prayer books: "The Spirit intercedes for us" (Rom. 8:26); "Delivered us from such a near death ... at the request of many" (2 Cor. 1: 10-11); "You do not ask for this people ... and do not intercede for Me" (Jer. 7:16). Therefore, the intercession of the Lord Jesus Christ does not exclude the intercession of the saints who, for their intercession prayers, draw on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their intercession prayers and help people not with their own power, but with the power of the same Christ. 2) The appeal to the saints humiliates the petition of Jesus Christ. Where is it said in the Holy Scriptures? Then, in general, prayers for others will also humiliate the intercession of Jesus Christ, and therefore are unnecessary. In this case, why in the Word of God is the commandment: "Pray for one another ... can the prayer of the righteous greatly strengthen?" (James 5:16). Why did Jesus Christ command: "Pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you?" (Mt. 5:44). Why does the apostle ask for prayers for himself? (Rom. 15:30, Ep. 6: 18-19, Col. 4: 3, Phil. 1:19, etc.). The apostle, who called Jesus Christ as the only Mediator, asks "to pray, pray, pray, give thanks for all men" and testify that "it is good and acceptable for our Savior God" (1 Tim. 2: 1-3). God punishes for the disobedience of the saints "The children ... mocked him (the prophet Elisha). He ... cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bearers came out of the forest and tore forty-two children from them "(4 Kings 2: 23-24). "Fire came down from the sky and hit two Pentecostals ... with soldiers" for wanting to take the prophet Elijah, without giving him due respect (4 Sam.1: 14). The greatness of the saints The saints surround the throne of God (Rev. 7: 9-10), citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem (Heb. 12: 22-23), the whole world is not worthy of them (Heb.11: 38), the friends of God (John 15: 14; (Isa. 2:24), in the saints God is glorified (2Col.1: 10), the holy participants of divine glory (John 12: 26), the memory of them will be eternal (Psalm 11: 6), "Blessed" (Proverbs 10:7), "The church will proclaim praise for them" (Syrah 44:14). Prayer to the saints is a request that they pray for us Jesus! This does not contradict the Bible ..
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 8:54:38 GMT
He says that the Bible is against the prayers of the saints but - The saints pray prayerfully: a) during life: God Himself commanded to apply to the prayer intercession of the saints: "God (Abimelech) said to him ... Abraham will pray for you and you will live ... And Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech" (Gen.20: 6 -7: 17). "Go to My servant Job ... Job will pray for you, for only his face I will accept ... Did as the Lord commanded them - and the Lord received Job's face" (Job 42: 8-9). "And the whole people said to Samuel, Pray for your servants ..." Samuel said to the people: "... and I also will not allow myself to sin before the Lord, to stop praying for you" (1 Sam.12: 19-23). "We ... do not cease to pray for you" (Col. 1: 9; Eph. 1:16; 2Col. 1: 11). (b) ... after death: if the prayers of the saints are strong before God during their lifetime, and if their love for their fellow beings extends to self-sacrifice (cf. Isa. 32: 31; Rom. 9: 3) The prayers of the saints are pleasing to God "The eyes of the Lord are turned to the righteous and his ears to their prayer, but the face of the Lord against those who do evil, to destroy them from the earth" (1 Pet.3: 12; Ps.33: 16-17). "The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous" (Proverbs 15:29). "Whoever rejects his ear from hearing the law, then prayer is an abomination" (28: 8). "There is much that can be strengthened (zealous) prayer of the righteous" (James 5: 16, compare Jak.17-18). Protestants say: 1) We have one mediator and intercessor - Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2: 5, compare Romans 8:34, 1 John 2: 1, Hebrews 7:25, 9:15). In these places, Jesus Christ is called "Mediator" - "one mediator" because he was "giving himself for the redemption of all" (1 Tim. 2: 6). He is one Mediator - the Redeemer, and not only the Advocate - a prayer book. The intercessors, according to the word of God, have a lot of prayer books: "The Spirit intercedes for us" (Rom. 8:26); "Delivered us from such a near death ... at the request of many" (2 Cor. 1: 10-11); "You do not ask for this people ... and do not intercede for Me" (Jer. 7:16). Therefore, the intercession of the Lord Jesus Christ does not exclude the intercession of the saints who, for their intercession prayers, draw on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their intercession prayers and help people not with their own power, but with the power of the same Christ. 2) The appeal to the saints humiliates the petition of Jesus Christ. Where is it said in the Holy Scriptures? Then, in general, prayers for others will also humiliate the intercession of Jesus Christ, and therefore are unnecessary. In this case, why in the Word of God is the commandment: "Pray for one another ... can the prayer of the righteous greatly strengthen?" (James 5:16). Why did Jesus Christ command: "Pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you?" (Mt. 5:44). Why does the apostle ask for prayers for himself? (Rom. 15:30, Ep. 6: 18-19, Col. 4: 3, Phil. 1:19, etc.). The apostle, who called Jesus Christ as the only Mediator, asks "to pray, pray, pray, give thanks for all men" and testify that "it is good and acceptable for our Savior God" (1 Tim. 2: 1-3). Protestants say: 1) We have one mediator and intercessor - Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2: 5, compare Romans 8:34, 1 John 2: 1, Hebrews 7:25, 9:15). In these places, Jesus Christ is called "Mediator" - "one mediator" because he was "giving himself for the redemption of all" (1 Tim. 2: 6). He is one Mediator - the Redeemer, and not only the Advocate - a prayer book. The intercessors, according to the word of God, have a lot of prayer books: "The Spirit intercedes for us" (Rom. 8:26); "Delivered us from such a near death ... at the request of many" (2 Cor. 1: 10-11); "You do not ask for this people ... and do not intercede for Me" (Jer. 7:16). Therefore, the intercession of the Lord Jesus Christ does not exclude the intercession of the saints who, for their intercession prayers, draw on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their intercession prayers and help people not with their own power, but with the power of the same Christ. 2) The appeal to the saints humiliates the petition of Jesus Christ. Where is it said in the Holy Scriptures? Then, in general, prayers for others will also humiliate the intercession of Jesus Christ, and therefore are unnecessary. In this case, why in the Word of God is the commandment: "Pray for one another ... can the prayer of the righteous greatly strengthen?" (James 5:16). Why did Jesus Christ command: "Pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you?" (Mt. 5:44). Why does the apostle ask for prayers for himself? (Rom. 15:30, Ep. 6: 18-19, Col. 4: 3, Phil. 1:19, etc.). The apostle, who called Jesus Christ as the only Mediator, asks "to pray, pray, pray, give thanks for all men" and testify that "it is good and acceptable for our Savior God" (1 Tim. 2: 1-3). God punishes for the disobedience of the saints "The children ... mocked him (the prophet Elisha). He ... cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bearers came out of the forest and tore forty-two children from them "(4 Kings 2: 23-24). "Fire came down from the sky and hit two Pentecostals ... with soldiers" for wanting to take the prophet Elijah, without giving him due respect (4 Sam.1: 14). The greatness of the saints The saints surround the throne of God (Rev. 7: 9-10), citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem (Heb. 12: 22-23), the whole world is not worthy of them (Heb.11: 38), the friends of God (John 15: 14; (Isa. 2:24), in the saints God is glorified (2Col.1: 10), the holy participants of divine glory (John 12: 26), the memory of them will be eternal (Psalm 11: 6), "Blessed" (Proverbs 10:7), "The church will proclaim praise for them" (Syrah 44:14). Prayer to the saints is a request that they pray for us Jesus! This does not contradict the Bible ..
You’re praying to dead people. They can’t hear your prayers. Christ is the only one who can make intercession for us before God the Father. You pray in His name.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 21, 2018 8:56:03 GMT
Look, I don't know about the Orthodox church as I have more experience with Catholics. But to be crass; I don't understand why I have to confess my sins to some old fart that's probably molesting children on his free time.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 8:57:32 GMT
www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?columnid=6435&articleid=81482the Eastern Orthodox church recognizes these forms of man-made tradition as authoritative: The writings and decisions of the first seven ecumenical councils, which took place between the 4th and 8th centuries The writing and decisions of later church councils through the centuries (which have often conflicted with each other as well as Scripture) The writings of so-called church fathers, especially those of the first four centuries A.D. Icons made of metal, stone, wood, and cloth which are set up as objects of worship by edict of the church The official (and complex) Liturgy which governs the church's worship The church's canon law, consisting of laws, regulations, and commentaries on the various elements of "holy tradition." Canon law not only governs the activities of th church but also claims a degree of authority in matters of state. Eastern Orthodox canon law is known as the Pedalion (Greek for "rudder"), since its purpose is to "steer" the church.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 8:58:52 GMT
Did not you read that God is not the god of the dead, but of the living? Christ said angels angels rejoice when the sinner repents ... it means that they see everything from that world! "You have come to Mount Zion and to the degree of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem and the darkness of the angels, to the triumphant cathedral and the church of the firstborns written in heaven and to the Judge of all God, and to the spirits of the righteous who have attained perfection" (Heb.12: 23)
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 9:00:10 GMT
Look, I don't know about the Orthodox church as I have more experience with Catholics. But to be crass; I don't understand why I have to confess my sins to some old fart that's probably molesting children on his free time. For a person with Irish roots to deal with Catholics this is common!
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 9:02:59 GMT
Look, I don't know about the Orthodox church as I have more experience with Catholics. But to be crass; I don't understand why I have to confess my sins to some old fart that's probably molesting children on his free time. They have no right to forgive sins anyway. So it's a waste of time treating them like God. Only God can forgive sins and the people we wronged personally can forgive us for what we did wrong to them. Shrug
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 9:05:22 GMT
Did not you read that God is not the god of the dead, but of the living? Christ said angels angels rejoice when the sinner repents ... it means that they see everything from that world! "You have come to Mount Zion and to the degree of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem and the darkness of the angels, to the triumphant cathedral and the church of the firstborns written in heaven and to the Judge of all God, and to the spirits of the righteous who have attained perfection" (Heb.12: 23) The saints in heaven are not angels Romans 8:27 KJV [27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV [5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hebrews 8:6 KJV [6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 21, 2018 9:07:12 GMT
Look, I don't know about the Orthodox church as I have more experience with Catholics. But to be crass; I don't understand why I have to confess my sins to some old fart that's probably molesting children on his free time. For a person with Irish roots to deal with Catholics this is common! Well, most of the people I've dealt with are evangelical protestants but I'm more familiar with Catholics because the culture or various cultures of the United States are derived from Western Europe and we have more experience with Catholicism, the pope and what not. I also knew and know a few Catholics and have an Italian American uncle who married into the family who is a very devout papist. They're nice people but I've never understood they're weird theology and why being plagued with pedophiles hiding in the priesthood they've never let their priests get married and why I would have to confess my sins to these weirdos or really any man who's sinned. Jesus is sinless, I'm confessing to him. I don't know a whole lot about the Orthodox church though.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 9:09:50 GMT
Did not you read that God is not the god of the dead, but of the living? Christ said angels angels rejoice when the sinner repents ... it means that they see everything from that world! "You have come to Mount Zion and to the degree of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem and the darkness of the angels, to the triumphant cathedral and the church of the firstborns written in heaven and to the Judge of all God, and to the spirits of the righteous who have attained perfection" (Heb.12: 23) The saints in heaven are not angels Romans 8:27 KJV [27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV [5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hebrews 8:6 KJV [6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. for in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but remain like the angels of God in heaven! Mt. 22:30
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