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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 7:58:49 GMT
www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/johns-story-why-i-left-eastern-orthodoxy-for-evangelicalism/“I would have caved had I not begun reading the Bible the Baptists had given me,” John says with a smile. “As I began reading Scripture, I understood Jesus to be the only way to God. I realized I did not need the Orthodox church or even a priest to be my mediator, for Jesus was the mediator between me and the Father.” Though John does not use the term, it is clear from his testimony that he had acquired an unshakable belief in the Reformation doctrine of sola scriptura. “I realized that the Bible was the authority, even over the Church. The Bible was true, and the Church with all its traditions and rituals was wrong.” What do those who are members of the Orthodox Church think of this and the rest of what is said in the article?
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 9:46:23 GMT
God wants everyone to be saved! Romanian boy who does not understand correctly the Bible went to Protestants ... this is also his will!
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 9:48:02 GMT
The church fathers are MEN and nothing more. They aren’t an authority. God’s Word is the ONLY authority. Wasn't Jesus a man too? They were men, so what? You, me and everyone else are. According to Bible we're all His children, so we have elder brothers and sisters, they help us to understand. How would you interpretate parent's words without any help? We're all users of language that hasn't been build by us; all the notions are under historical circumstances, so there's no rex enter to everything by yourself. That's why the help is always needed. I agree that Bible has more authority (it's obvious). But, does it make any complication to get an advice from someone else on interpretation?.. I guess not. Jesus Christ is not just a man, He is God’s only begotten Son, God in the flesh(if scripture is your authority). No, we aren’t all His children, only those who believe in Him are His children; notice how Jesus called the Pharisees sons of the devil because they were not sons of God, hence not God’s children. No elder is an authority according to God’s word, all men are liars, only God is truth. The Bible, God’s word, is the only help we need. The Bible isn’t open for interpretation, it says one thing and one thing only.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 9:50:35 GMT
God wants everyone to be saved! Romanian boy who does not understand correctly the Bible went to Protestants ... this is also his will! Well, if a church is authority, so the question arises then - which one? You don't understand these words correctly, because there haven't been any churches while Jesus has been alive.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 9:51:18 GMT
God wants everyone to be saved! Romanian boy who does not understand correctly the Bible went to Protestants ... this is also his will! The Romanian went from the authority of man to sola scriptura and away from the doctrines and commandments of men(the church fathers). Take your faith away from men, and but it in God and His Word!
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 9:53:53 GMT
The church is not the authority, but Jesus lives among two, three, or more people. The church is just a group of followers which is holding the same views. The problems are easy to solve together, not separately. Jesus says that the one to whom the church does not have authority is like a pagan or tax collector! (Matthew 18: 15-17) Matthew 18:15-17 KJV [15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. No He didn’t. This is about doing wrong against your brother in Christ and how to handle it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 9:54:27 GMT
Wasn't Jesus a man too? They were men, so what? You, me and everyone else are. According to Bible we're all His children, so we have elder brothers and sisters, they help us to understand. How would you interpretate parent's words without any help? We're all users of language that hasn't been build by us; all the notions are under historical circumstances, so there's no rex enter to everything by yourself. That's why the help is always needed. I agree that Bible has more authority (it's obvious). But, does it make any complication to get an advice from someone else on interpretation?.. I guess not. Jesus Christ is not just a man, He is God’s only begotten Son, God in the flesh(if scripture is your authority). No, we aren’t all His children, only those who believe in Him are His children; notice how Jesus called the Pharisees sons of the devil because they were not sons of God, hence not God’s children. No elder is an authority according to God’s word, all men are liars, only God is truth. The Bible, God’s word, is the only help we need. The Bible isn’t open for interpretation, it says one thing and one thing only. How interesting. 1. Than how you explain why God wants to save everyone? 2. You're already an interpretator. It is not possible to understand it correctly, just because you are reader of translation. You're not Aramean, not a speaker too, you don't know their culture, because you haven't grown in it. Don't offended by me, but your objections are irrelevant.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 9:57:24 GMT
God wants everyone to be saved! Romanian boy who does not understand correctly the Bible went to Protestants ... this is also his will! The Romanian went from the authority of man to sola scriptura and away from the doctrines and commandments of men(the church fathers). Take your faith away from men, and but it in God and His Word! I agree that cultural things, like commandement and the rest are annoying things. But this is just like you're saying that you don't like the precise culture. Everything is deep in cultures. Have you seen any uncultural language? Esperanto?.. No, it's absurd. Without cultural/history you cannot deal with it, because of lack of conceptions. Concepts are the ones which rules of your insight of something.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 9:58:25 GMT
The church is not the authority. Period. The church is not the authority, but Jesus lives among two, three, or more people. The church is just a group of followers which is holding the same views. The problems are easy to solve together, not separately. They’re only a church if they’re comprised of men, women, and children, and only if their authority is God’s word which isn’t open for interpretation.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 9:59:11 GMT
God wants everyone to be saved! Romanian boy who does not understand correctly the Bible went to Protestants ... this is also his will! The Romanian went from the authority of man to sola scriptura and away from the doctrines and commandments of men(the church fathers). Take your faith away from men, and but it in God and His Word! Do you call faith in the teachings of the Fathers of the Church by believing in people? But if it is as objective as possible, then it must be noted that the Protestants have their own fathers (Luther, Calvin and others), any Protestant denomination has its own - traditions- The founder of the Baptist John Smith baptized himself, then even his disciple suspected him of blasphemy. The famous American Baptist preacher Billy Graham was baptized three times. Interenso where does the Bible say about it? Hmm ...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 10:05:31 GMT
The church is not the authority, but Jesus lives among two, three, or more people. The church is just a group of followers which is holding the same views. The problems are easy to solve together, not separately. They’re only a church if they’re comprised of men, women, and children, and only if their authority is God’s word which isn’t open for interpretation. You can avoid an interpretation. By the way, did you say that all the men are liars? This means that you're liar too, and I can trust your words. So how will you tell me what is it true, or not?
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 10:05:59 GMT
The church fathers are MEN and nothing more. They aren’t an authority. God’s Word is the ONLY authority. Wasn't Jesus a man too? They were men, so what? You, me and everyone else are. According to Bible we're all His children, so we have elder brothers and sisters, they help us to understand. How would you interpretate parent's words without any help? We're all users of language that hasn't been build by us; all the notions are under historical circumstances, so there's no rex enter to everything by yourself. That's why the help is always needed. I agree that Bible has more authority (it's obvious). But, does it make any complication to get an advice from someone else on interpretation?.. I guess not. Well, bible says Jesus came from heaven which differs Him from just a plain human. But yeah of course we must learn what the bible says and stuff. But not all learn it as children since not all parents are religious anyway. But I mean if they learn it from parents then yeah parents should teach it correctly too. You can't be a teacher if you don't know the material you are teaching of course! If it was like this in life then oir university teachers could just be anyone...even a teenager who is feeling smart suddenly xD And if we come to learn the bible as adults and not kids then we usually don't need parents. Would be kind of weird to have parents sitting in class with you in university explaining what the teacher is saying . But as adults we all know how to read a book to learn. Sure, if we're stuck we can ask a qualified or real teacher for help. So if a Christian is teaching what Jesus taught only then he's a great teacher because he's passing down the origional material. But if he's teaching someone else's Christian belief then it's not the real one. Matthew 28:20 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.[a
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 10:06:01 GMT
Jesus Christ is not just a man, He is God’s only begotten Son, God in the flesh(if scripture is your authority). No, we aren’t all His children, only those who believe in Him are His children; notice how Jesus called the Pharisees sons of the devil because they were not sons of God, hence not God’s children. No elder is an authority according to God’s word, all men are liars, only God is truth. The Bible, God’s word, is the only help we need. The Bible isn’t open for interpretation, it says one thing and one thing only. How interesting. 1. Than how you explain why God wants to save everyone? 2. You're already an interpretator. It is not possible to understand it correctly, just because you are reader of translation. You're not Aramean, not a speaker too, you don't know their culture, because you haven't grown in it. Don't offended by me, but your objections are irrelevant. He wants everyone to be saved yes, to be His children, but it doesn’t mean everyone will be. I have faith in God’s promise to preserve His word for all time, so that means I can open up my bible and read His word without error. What you dont understand is that orthodoxy uses texts and rules that are written by men and aren’t found in God’s word, hence the Orthodox Church follows doctrines and commandments of men which the Bible very clearly states is WRONG and the very scripture that says it is wrong cannot be interpreted in any fashion other than exactly what it says: Titus 1:13-14 KJV [13] This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Mark 7:6-8 KJV [6] He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. [7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. [8] For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. Matthew 15:7-9 KJV [7] Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, [8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Scripture could not be more clear.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 10:06:53 GMT
The Romanian went from the authority of man to sola scriptura and away from the doctrines and commandments of men(the church fathers). Take your faith away from men, and but it in God and His Word! Do you call faith in the teachings of the Fathers of the Church by believing in people? But if it is as objective as possible, then it must be noted that the Protestants have their own fathers (Luther, Calvin and others), any Protestant denomination has its own - traditions- The founder of the Baptist John Smith baptized himself, then even his disciple suspected him of blasphemy. The famous American Baptist preacher Billy Graham was baptized three times. Interenso where does the Bible say about it? Hmm ... Yes. Exactly. They are always escaping on this. It is something that confuses me more than the other things.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 10:08:57 GMT
The church is not the authority, but Jesus lives among two, three, or more people. The church is just a group of followers which is holding the same views. The problems are easy to solve together, not separately. Jesus says that the one to whom the church does not have authority is like a pagan or tax collector! (Matthew 18: 15-17) Jesus is a pagan and tax collector? Church has no authority over Him. O.o
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 10:10:05 GMT
Do you call faith in the teachings of the Fathers of the Church by believing in people? But if it is as objective as possible, then it must be noted that the Protestants have their own fathers (Luther, Calvin and others), any Protestant denomination has its own - traditions- The founder of the Baptist John Smith baptized himself, then even his disciple suspected him of blasphemy. The famous American Baptist preacher Billy Graham was baptized three times. Interenso where does the Bible say about it? Hmm ... Yes. Exactly. They are always escaping on this. It is something that confuses me more than the other things. Noooo I don't listen to Luther or Calvin. They're silly individuals. They're not in my bible so they can't tell me anything Shrug
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