aragwen
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Post by aragwen on Aug 25, 2018 22:03:26 GMT
I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Christians believe that when they die they have a soul which will go to heaven or hell or purgatory depending on the denomination.
If the above is true then what does God mean when He says-
"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. Isaiah 65:17
“Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away” (Revelation 21:1).
But according to his promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3:13)
If on "judgement day" everyone goes off to their deserved places then who is going to live on this "new earth" and who is going to be around to be righteous
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Post by x on Aug 25, 2018 22:25:43 GMT
This new earth is the thousand year millennium which talked about in the bible. after the tribulation, there is going to be a 1,000-year millennium which will require a new earth and a new heaven.
Revelation 20 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Thousand Years
20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
Read the whole chapter of Revelation 20 to get the idea of it.
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x
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Country: United States of America
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Philosophy: Aesthetics
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Post by x on Aug 25, 2018 22:31:04 GMT
This chart should explain it  |
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Post by DKTrav88 on Aug 25, 2018 23:02:26 GMT
"who is going to live on this "new earth" and who is going to be around to be righteous"
Revelation 21:1-3
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
The righteous will dwell with God in the new Jerusalem on the new earth.
Revelation 21:23-27
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
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aragwen
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Post by aragwen on Aug 26, 2018 0:24:53 GMT
This new earth is the thousand year millennium which talked about in the bible. after the tribulation, there is going to be a 1,000-year millennium which will require a new earth and a new heaven. Revelation 20 English Standard Version (ESV) The Thousand Years 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Read the whole chapter of Revelation 20 to get the idea of it. |
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aragwen
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Post by aragwen on Aug 26, 2018 0:41:56 GMT
I don't think it means a literal new heaven and new earth else it would have been pointless God saying-
The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth." (Revelations 11:18)
God obviously wants to save the present earth,this also shows that judgement will be carried out on those still alive at the time of the tribulation.
Rapture-I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. (1 Cor 15:50)
Jesus will not come back to earth because he once again has a spirit body-
In a little while, the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. (John 14:19)
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 26, 2018 0:49:18 GMT
Dk and aragwen are both confusing me right now but I only skimmed through so might have not read well. I'll return to this thread in a little bit when I've more time though.
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aragwen
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Post by aragwen on Aug 26, 2018 0:50:56 GMT
"who is going to live on this "new earth" and who is going to be around to be righteous" Revelation 21:1-3 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. The righteous will dwell with God in the new Jerusalem on the new earth. Revelation 21:23-27 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. |
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aragwen
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Post by aragwen on Aug 26, 2018 0:58:20 GMT
"who is going to live on this "new earth" and who is going to be around to be righteous" Revelation 21:1-3 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. The righteous will dwell with God in the new Jerusalem on the new earth. Revelation 21:23-27 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. |
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aragwen
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Post by aragwen on Aug 26, 2018 1:12:00 GMT
Sorry but Revelations is notoriously difficult to understand it is full of symbolism and metaphors and I think you have taken things too literally.
As I wrote in a previous post Jesus himself told his disciples the world won't see him again.
In the OT God was often spoke about as being with His people during battles and so forth but He wasn't there literally. I could tell a campaigning group that I am with them but that doesn't mean I'm literally there with them.
I think one needs to consider all the scriptures to be able to understand God's plan for mankind.
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 26, 2018 1:56:29 GMT
Sorry but Revelations is notoriously difficult to understand it is full of symbolism and metaphors and I think you have taken things too literally. As I wrote in a previous post Jesus himself told his disciples the world won't see him again. In the OT God was often spoke about as being with His people during battles and so forth but He wasn't there literally. I could tell a campaigning group that I am with them but that doesn't mean I'm literally there with them. I think one needs to consider all the scriptures to be able to understand God's plan for mankind. So you're saying that Christians will not be with Jesus one day? So Jesus lied in the verse below? John 14:3 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. |
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Post by just10sp on Aug 26, 2018 2:18:23 GMT
In Isaiah he speaks that the garden will be like that of Eden.. that Zion and Jerusalem and Isreal will all be prosperous again. After The Day of The Lord, God willl no longer be angry, meaning to me that that day will change the hearts of men and they will no longer be rebellious. Zion will be given a new name, people who are resurrected may also be given a new name. If you had a diseased ant hive that you were maintaining in your house and all the ants became diseased you would take out the ants temporarily, cure the disease, and put them back in. That’s essentially what God is going to do.
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Post by just10sp on Aug 26, 2018 2:21:53 GMT
Sorry but Revelations is notoriously difficult to understand it is full of symbolism and metaphors and I think you have taken things too literally. As I wrote in a previous post Jesus himself told his disciples the world won't see him again. In the OT God was often spoke about as being with His people during battles and so forth but He wasn't there literally. I could tell a campaigning group that I am with them but that doesn't mean I'm literally there with them. I think one needs to consider all the scriptures to be able to understand God's plan for mankind. So you're saying that Christians will not be with Jesus one day? So Jesus lied in the verse below? John 14:3 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. I’m so happy you and DK and Diamond are on this forum. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 26, 2018 3:05:54 GMT
So you're saying that Christians will not be with Jesus one day? So Jesus lied in the verse below? John 14:3 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. I’m so happy you and DK and Diamond are on this forum. Glad you're here with us too  |
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aragwen
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Post by aragwen on Aug 26, 2018 19:55:02 GMT
There was one book in the bible that motivated me to take a more in depth look at the scriptures, although I didn't understand most of what I was reading one fact for me was obvious and left me in no doubt we don't all go to heaven so I wanted to find out what the future held for the rest of us.
The 144,000 is mentioned a number of times in Revelations and these are the ones Jesus is talking about in John 14:3
1 Corinthians 15:23 - But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
......... and no-one was able to master that song but the one hundred and forty four thousand who have been bought from the earth.....these are the first fruits. Revelations 14
This is the first resurrection and these will rule as priests and kings with Christ for a thousand years.
Worth considering kings who rule need subjects.
Revelation 7:9-10 After this I looked, and there before me was a great crowd that no man could number, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
This great crowd is obviously a different group of people to the 144,000 which is a specific number so who are they?
John asked just this question-I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelations 7:14
To come out of something you have to have been 'in it' so to speak.
These verses indicate to me that the majority of humans will still be on earth when the tribulation begins not all will survive but a great many will.
When people talk of the Rapture I have often wondered why people assume the one that is taken survives and the one that is left dies, I believe it is the opposite.
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