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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 12, 2018 3:20:07 GMT
A side by side comparison of Roman Catholic teachings and Biblical doctrine. Roman Catholic Teachings
1)The bishops, with the pope as their head, rule the universal Church.
2)God has entrusted revelation to the bishops.
3)The pope is infallible in his teaching.
4)Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God.
5)Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participated with Christ in the painful act of redemption.
6)Mary is the co-mediator, to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions.
7)Initial justification is by means of baptism.
8)Adults must prepare for justification through faith and good works.
9)Grace is merited by good works.
10)Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments.
11)No one can know if he will attain to eternal life.
12)The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation.
13)Christ's body and blood exist wholly and entirely in every fragment of consecrated bread and wine in every Roman Catholic church around the world.
14)The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the sacrifice of the Mass.
15)Each sacrifice of the Mass appeases God's wrath against sin.
16)The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the sacrifice of the Mass.
| Biblical Doctrine
1)Christ, the head of the body, rules the universal church (Colossians 1:18).
2)God has entrusted revelation to the saints (Jude 3).
3)God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19; Acts 17:11).
4)Scripture alone is the Word of God (John 10:35; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21; Mark 7:1-13).
5)Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18,19).
6)Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5; John 14:13,14; 1 Peter 5:7).
7)Justification is by faith alone (Romans 3:28).
8)God justifies ungodly sinners who believe (Romans 4:5). Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause (Ephesians 2:8-10).
9)Grace is a free gift (Romans 11:6).
10)Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:10).
11)The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God and the testimony of the Holy Spirit who indwells believers (1 John 5:13; Romans 8:16).
12)There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
13)The bread and wine are symbols of the body and blood of Christ, and He is bodily present in heaven (1 Corinthians 11:23-25; Hebrews 10:12,13).
14)The sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).
15)The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God's wrath against sin (Hebrews 10:12-18).
16)The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 1:3). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 19:55:36 GMT
And the bible says over and over again the Church is the Body of Christ....You claim no tradition but what is scripture, but the Catholic/Orthodox churches gained their sacraments (breaking of the bread, anointing with oil, etc. from scripture)...so unless I am missing something your message does not add up. If the problem is relying on men for the interpretation of God's word, and you are a man, should I listen to your arguments? If I listen to scripture alone, then because of scripture, I am led to certain traditions other denominations have. It appears, and this will sound offensive (but it is not meant to be), you are trying to start a cult. They annointed the sick with oil. It was thr commandment to love your neighbor. So when someone is sick to help them. It can just be give them medicine and not oil. Oil isn't a requirement but was used in loving the neighbor commandment to help. Good Sarmaritan story should tell you this. The man in the story loved the neighbor and helped him. It's not what he used to help but that he helped him and showed love. There's many ways to help in loving your neighbor. I apologize but if I am to take scripture seriously, unlike you yet claim I should, I can only respond to DK. You can influence DK if you wish, but you obviously pick and choose what you verses you listen to and do not. If anything I feel bad for his wife spending more time with another woman than her...... Now obviously the conversation will continue...but do you see the logic of it? You wanted to learn how to differentiate so let's see how far it can go.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 20:03:16 GMT
They annointed the sick with oil. It was thr commandment to love your neighbor. So when someone is sick to help them. It can just be give them medicine and not oil. Oil isn't a requirement but was used in loving the neighbor commandment to help. Good Sarmaritan story should tell you this. The man in the story loved the neighbor and helped him. It's not what he used to help but that he helped him and showed love. There's many ways to help in loving your neighbor. I apologize but if I am to take scripture seriously, unlike you yet claim I should, I can only respond to DK. You can influence DK if you wish, but you obviously pick and choose what you verses you listen to and do not. If anything I feel bad for his wife spending more time with another woman than her...... Now obviously the conversation will continue...but do you see the logic of it? You wanted to learn how to differentiate so let's see how far it can go. I'm not picking scripture. Scripture literally says one's a building and one's the sheep. The church meets in a church. And only the sheep church go to heaven. He's not coming to rip the building church out of the ground to take it to heaven. And when Timothy and Paul write to the church building you assume they write to church sheep outside the building. How is a mother supposed to teach her young? At home correct. Not in a church building. But outside of it where she's allowed to.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 19, 2018 20:04:18 GMT
They annointed the sick with oil. It was thr commandment to love your neighbor. So when someone is sick to help them. It can just be give them medicine and not oil. Oil isn't a requirement but was used in loving the neighbor commandment to help. Good Sarmaritan story should tell you this. The man in the story loved the neighbor and helped him. It's not what he used to help but that he helped him and showed love. There's many ways to help in loving your neighbor. I apologize but if I am to take scripture seriously, unlike you yet claim I should, I can only respond to DK. You can influence DK if you wish, but you obviously pick and choose what you verses you listen to and do not. If anything I feel bad for his wife spending more time with another woman than her...... Now obviously the conversation will continue...but do you see the logic of it? You wanted to learn how to differentiate so let's see how far it can go. 1 Timothy is conduct within a physical church building.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 20:04:48 GMT
And the bible says over and over again the Church is the Body of Christ....You claim no tradition but what is scripture, but the Catholic/Orthodox churches gained their sacraments (breaking of the bread, anointing with oil, etc. from scripture)...so unless I am missing something your message does not add up. If the problem is relying on men for the interpretation of God's word, and you are a man, should I listen to your arguments? If I listen to scripture alone, then because of scripture, I am led to certain traditions other denominations have. It appears, and this will sound offensive (but it is not meant to be), you are trying to start a cult. A church that DOES NOT have its full faith in Christ is NOT a part of the body of Christ. How is this so difficult to understand for someone who says they are right about everything? No you shouldn’t listen to me, you should pray to God for understanding and rely on the Holy Spirit like the Bible says to do. Scripture says to do this, contrary to this IS relying on men which scripture says NOT to do! Asking a member to pray for you, which is in scripture, observes that the relationships we have with eachother point us to Christ. Man is an image of God, a symbol so to speak, which points us directly to God. There is no absence of Faith in Christ in these respects. "Papal infallibility, in Roman Catholic theology, the doctrine that the pope, acting as supreme teacher and under certain conditions, cannot err when he teaches in matters of faith or morals." And what does this infallibility say? All those who genuinely seek God can find him. Scripture observes this in "knock and the door will be opened". No you shouldn’t listen to me, you should pray to God for understanding and rely on the Holy Spirit like the Bible says to do. Scripture says to do this, contrary to this IS relying on men which scripture says NOT to do!
If I cannot have faith in anything you say, and according to you I should not, then all your interpretations are bunk by default. They are "your" interpretations of scripture as plenty of scriptural evidence provided has given a whole picture.
Am I saying that you should become Catholic/Orthodox? No, what I am saying is the sola scriptura approach alone contradicts itself and leads to moral relativism.
If I pray to God and the result is these conversations...you will say I am distorting the answer God as given me...but how do you know that your prayer's have not led to this opposing point of view and you are the one not listening to God? You see how tricky this gets?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 20:05:50 GMT
I apologize but if I am to take scripture seriously, unlike you yet claim I should, I can only respond to DK. You can influence DK if you wish, but you obviously pick and choose what you verses you listen to and do not. If anything I feel bad for his wife spending more time with another woman than her...... Now obviously the conversation will continue...but do you see the logic of it? You wanted to learn how to differentiate so let's see how far it can go. I'm not picking scripture. Scripture literally says one's a building and one's the sheep. The church meets in a church. And only the sheep church go to heaven. He's not coming to rip the building church out of the ground to take it to heaven. And when Timothy and Paul write to the church building you assume they write to church sheep outside the building. How is a mother supposed to teach her young? At home correct. Not in a church building. But outside of it where she's allowed to. Yes you are picking scripture by choosing some and ignoring others, in this can Timothy. Then you provide an interpretation, of your own, that is not in scripture (in regards to what a church is and is not).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 20:06:24 GMT
I apologize but if I am to take scripture seriously, unlike you yet claim I should, I can only respond to DK. You can influence DK if you wish, but you obviously pick and choose what you verses you listen to and do not. If anything I feel bad for his wife spending more time with another woman than her...... Now obviously the conversation will continue...but do you see the logic of it? You wanted to learn how to differentiate so let's see how far it can go. 1 Timothy is conduct within a physical church. Quote scripture to prove it, otherwise you are the one interpreting it.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 20:11:23 GMT
I'm not picking scripture. Scripture literally says one's a building and one's the sheep. The church meets in a church. And only the sheep church go to heaven. He's not coming to rip the building church out of the ground to take it to heaven. And when Timothy and Paul write to the church building you assume they write to church sheep outside the building. How is a mother supposed to teach her young? At home correct. Not in a church building. But outside of it where she's allowed to. Yes you are picking scripture by choosing some and ignoring others, in this can Timothy. Then you provide an interpretation, of your own, that is not in scripture (in regards to what a church is and is not). You do realize Paul wrote both letters to a church building right? So either Paul is contradicting himself or you are wrong. I'll go with you are wrong.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 19, 2018 20:14:39 GMT
1 Timothy is conduct within a physical church. Quote scripture to prove it, otherwise you are the one interpreting it. You want me to quote the whole book?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 20:15:31 GMT
Yes you are picking scripture by choosing some and ignoring others, in this can Timothy. Then you provide an interpretation, of your own, that is not in scripture (in regards to what a church is and is not). You do realize Paul wrote both letters to a church building right? So either Paul is contradicting himself or you are wrong. I'll go with you are wrong. In the Bible the word church is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia , meaning “a calling out.” It never refers to a building or meeting place, but always to people, the ones “called out” of the world’s society by God calling them into His service. The Church of the Bible is not a cold, stone building, but a group of warm and loving people specially chosen by God. In the Scriptures church can refer to the group of believers in a particular location, such as a city or region, or to the entire body of believers God has called. So a building with no worshipers cannot really be a church in the biblical sense. The New Testament Church is a group of people called out of this world’s society by God, even if they meet in a rented hall or on a grassy hillside. For example, the apostle Paul greeted the church—the congregation of people—that met in the house of Priscilla and Aquila in Rome (Romans 16:3-5). What are the roots, the history, of the Church? What sets apart people whom God calls His own? How does God use the Church to achieve His purposes? What does the Church do for us, and what should its members do for the Church? How can we be part of what God is doing through His Church? When Jesus said, “… I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18), He was saying the Church—His chosen people—would not die out. It would be alive-a warm and caring body of believers striving to serve God, do His work and support each other. Today, with so many conflicting doctrines and practices, how can we recognize the Church Jesus built? In this lesson let’s learn what the Bible teaches about God’s Church and what it means for us. www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-study-course/bible-study-course-lesson-10/the-church-is-not-the-building
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 20:16:50 GMT
Quote scripture to prove it, otherwise you are the one interpreting it. You want me to quote the whole book? If you can't, the you are picking whatever verses you choose and the arguments you make are subjective. Unless you know the whole book, and I doubt you do inside and out, you cannot put things into context on your own.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 20:22:27 GMT
You do realize Paul wrote both letters to a church building right? So either Paul is contradicting himself or you are wrong. I'll go with you are wrong. In the Bible the word church is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia , meaning “a calling out.” It never refers to a building or meeting place, but always to people, the ones “called out” of the world’s society by God calling them into His service. The Church of the Bible is not a cold, stone building, but a group of warm and loving people specially chosen by God. In the Scriptures church can refer to the group of believers in a particular location, such as a city or region, or to the entire body of believers God has called. So a building with no worshipers cannot really be a church in the biblical sense. The New Testament Church is a group of people called out of this world’s society by God, even if they meet in a rented hall or on a grassy hillside. For example, the apostle Paul greeted the church—the congregation of people—that met in the house of Priscilla and Aquila in Rome (Romans 16:3-5). What are the roots, the history, of the Church? What sets apart people whom God calls His own? How does God use the Church to achieve His purposes? What does the Church do for us, and what should its members do for the Church? How can we be part of what God is doing through His Church? When Jesus said, “… I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18), He was saying the Church—His chosen people—would not die out. It would be alive-a warm and caring body of believers striving to serve God, do His work and support each other. Today, with so many conflicting doctrines and practices, how can we recognize the Church Jesus built? In this lesson let’s learn what the Bible teaches about God’s Church and what it means for us. www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-study-course/bible-study-course-lesson-10/the-church-is-not-the-buildingYes, but we're talking about what scripture calls it. Anyway here's if you don't believe the bible I'll use earthly sources. Paul wrote that book of Timothy to a building to address people's roles in the building. "To whom was it written? 1 Timothy is one of Paul’s “pastoral” letters. These letters were addressed to church leaders and outlined their pastoral duties." Taken out from... www.biblegateway.com/blog/2016/03/letters-to-the-church-pauls-first-letter-to-timothy/So like all the letters were addressed to individual church buildings to make sure they conducted things right. It's its own entity. As a marriage is its own entity where only 2 are present. These two concepts don't involve the whole sheep church. It's not all husbands are head of one wife. But one husband head over one wife and the rest of the sheep not present in it. Same as in a church building. There's roles for some and not for others to do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 20:33:25 GMT
In the Bible the word church is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia , meaning “a calling out.” It never refers to a building or meeting place, but always to people, the ones “called out” of the world’s society by God calling them into His service. The Church of the Bible is not a cold, stone building, but a group of warm and loving people specially chosen by God. In the Scriptures church can refer to the group of believers in a particular location, such as a city or region, or to the entire body of believers God has called. So a building with no worshipers cannot really be a church in the biblical sense. The New Testament Church is a group of people called out of this world’s society by God, even if they meet in a rented hall or on a grassy hillside. For example, the apostle Paul greeted the church—the congregation of people—that met in the house of Priscilla and Aquila in Rome (Romans 16:3-5). What are the roots, the history, of the Church? What sets apart people whom God calls His own? How does God use the Church to achieve His purposes? What does the Church do for us, and what should its members do for the Church? How can we be part of what God is doing through His Church? When Jesus said, “… I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18), He was saying the Church—His chosen people—would not die out. It would be alive-a warm and caring body of believers striving to serve God, do His work and support each other. Today, with so many conflicting doctrines and practices, how can we recognize the Church Jesus built? In this lesson let’s learn what the Bible teaches about God’s Church and what it means for us. www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-study-course/bible-study-course-lesson-10/the-church-is-not-the-buildingYes, but we're talking about what scripture calls it. Anyway here's if you don't believe the bible I'll use earthly sources. Paul wrote that book of Timothy to a building to address people's roles in the building. "To whom was it written? 1 Timothy is one of Paul’s “pastoral” letters. These letters were addressed to church leaders and outlined their pastoral duties." Taken out from... www.biblegateway.com/blog/2016/03/letters-to-the-church-pauls-first-letter-to-timothy/So like all the letters were addressed to individual church buildings to make sure they conducted things right. It's its own entity. As a marriage is its own entity where only 2 are present. These two concepts don't involve the whole sheep church. It's not all husbands are head of one wife. But one husband head over one wife and the rest of the sheep not present in it. Same as in a church building. There's roles for some and not for others to do. Scripture does call the church a group of people, not a building, as such: In the Bible the word church is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia , meaning “a calling out.” It never refers to a building or meeting place, but always to people, the ones “called out” of the world’s society by God calling them into His service. The Church of the Bible is not a cold, stone building, but a group of warm and loving people specially chosen by God.
The letter's as "greek" in origin explicitly state this...hence it is scriptural.
And don't back track on timothy, it is not about husband's and wives.....
You and Dk are literally forming your own interpretations....it is a cult nothing more. I dealt with them before with relatives.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 20:35:06 GMT
Yes, but we're talking about what scripture calls it. Anyway here's if you don't believe the bible I'll use earthly sources. Paul wrote that book of Timothy to a building to address people's roles in the building. "To whom was it written? 1 Timothy is one of Paul’s “pastoral” letters. These letters were addressed to church leaders and outlined their pastoral duties." Taken out from... www.biblegateway.com/blog/2016/03/letters-to-the-church-pauls-first-letter-to-timothy/So like all the letters were addressed to individual church buildings to make sure they conducted things right. It's its own entity. As a marriage is its own entity where only 2 are present. These two concepts don't involve the whole sheep church. It's not all husbands are head of one wife. But one husband head over one wife and the rest of the sheep not present in it. Same as in a church building. There's roles for some and not for others to do. Scripture does call the church a group of people, not a building, as such: In the Bible the word church is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia , meaning “a calling out.” It never refers to a building or meeting place, but always to people, the ones “called out” of the world’s society by God calling them into His service. The Church of the Bible is not a cold, stone building, but a group of warm and loving people specially chosen by God.
The letter's as "greek" in origin explicitly state this...hence it is scriptural.
And don't back track on timothy, it is not about husband's and wives.....
You and Dk are literally forming your own interpretations....it is a cult nothing more. I dealt with them before with relatives.
Did I just not quote a verse that calls it a building too? Or would you like more verses?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 19, 2018 20:35:54 GMT
You want me to quote the whole book? If you can't, the you are picking whatever verses you choose and the arguments you make are subjective. Unless you know the whole book, and I doubt you do inside and out, you cannot put things into context on your own. What? You really want me to quote all of Timothy 1 right here? this is getting stupid. 1 Timothy is considered a pastoral epistle, they are addressed to individuals with pastoral oversight of churches and discuss issues of Christian living, doctrine, and leadership. These epistles are for church conduct.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 19, 2018 20:38:31 GMT
Yes, but we're talking about what scripture calls it. Anyway here's if you don't believe the bible I'll use earthly sources. Paul wrote that book of Timothy to a building to address people's roles in the building. "To whom was it written? 1 Timothy is one of Paul’s “pastoral” letters. These letters were addressed to church leaders and outlined their pastoral duties." Taken out from... www.biblegateway.com/blog/2016/03/letters-to-the-church-pauls-first-letter-to-timothy/So like all the letters were addressed to individual church buildings to make sure they conducted things right. It's its own entity. As a marriage is its own entity where only 2 are present. These two concepts don't involve the whole sheep church. It's not all husbands are head of one wife. But one husband head over one wife and the rest of the sheep not present in it. Same as in a church building. There's roles for some and not for others to do. Scripture does call the church a group of people, not a building, as such: In the Bible the word church is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia , meaning “a calling out.” It never refers to a building or meeting place, but always to people, the ones “called out” of the world’s society by God calling them into His service. The Church of the Bible is not a cold, stone building, but a group of warm and loving people specially chosen by God.
The letter's as "greek" in origin explicitly state this...hence it is scriptural.
And don't back track on timothy, it is not about husband's and wives.....
You and Dk are literally forming your own interpretations....it is a cult nothing more. I dealt with them before with relatives.
cult n. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. Who’s our leader? Christ? this is ridiculous
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