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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 12, 2018 3:20:07 GMT
A side by side comparison of Roman Catholic teachings and Biblical doctrine. Roman Catholic Teachings
1)The bishops, with the pope as their head, rule the universal Church.
2)God has entrusted revelation to the bishops.
3)The pope is infallible in his teaching.
4)Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God.
5)Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participated with Christ in the painful act of redemption.
6)Mary is the co-mediator, to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions.
7)Initial justification is by means of baptism.
8)Adults must prepare for justification through faith and good works.
9)Grace is merited by good works.
10)Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments.
11)No one can know if he will attain to eternal life.
12)The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation.
13)Christ's body and blood exist wholly and entirely in every fragment of consecrated bread and wine in every Roman Catholic church around the world.
14)The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the sacrifice of the Mass.
15)Each sacrifice of the Mass appeases God's wrath against sin.
16)The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the sacrifice of the Mass.
| Biblical Doctrine
1)Christ, the head of the body, rules the universal church (Colossians 1:18).
2)God has entrusted revelation to the saints (Jude 3).
3)God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19; Acts 17:11).
4)Scripture alone is the Word of God (John 10:35; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21; Mark 7:1-13).
5)Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18,19).
6)Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5; John 14:13,14; 1 Peter 5:7).
7)Justification is by faith alone (Romans 3:28).
8)God justifies ungodly sinners who believe (Romans 4:5). Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause (Ephesians 2:8-10).
9)Grace is a free gift (Romans 11:6).
10)Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:10).
11)The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God and the testimony of the Holy Spirit who indwells believers (1 John 5:13; Romans 8:16).
12)There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
13)The bread and wine are symbols of the body and blood of Christ, and He is bodily present in heaven (1 Corinthians 11:23-25; Hebrews 10:12,13).
14)The sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).
15)The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God's wrath against sin (Hebrews 10:12-18).
16)The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 1:3). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 18:48:56 GMT
I said "who shows more mercy?"...not those who cry Lord Lord. And what is false worship considering, as observed above the Catholic/Orthodox are following scripture (the foundations of their faiths, the sacraments, are all scriptural so it is not a perversion of tradition in the respect man created it). Elizabeth, if you take the sola scriptura approach, you are not even allowed to be preaching or teaching scripture...you understand you are not following your own beliefs? For the last time I am not preaching inside any church nor ever did or will. Please read the bible correctly. 1 Timothy 2:12 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 19:06:45 GMT
For the last time I am not preaching inside any church nor ever did or will. Please read the bible correctly. 1 Timothy 2:12 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. Sigh. Let's see what Paul means. Women must be silent in churches since the leaders are men or men are the ones in authority there. Great. I don't care. I follow the verse and go on vacation. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. And for this one says man is head over the woman but I'm not married so whatever I don't have a head nor will I have one UNLESS I choose to marry. Ephesians 5:22-23 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 19:18:41 GMT
1 Timothy 2:12 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. . Let's see what Paul means. Women must be silent in churches since the leaders are men or men are the ones in authority there. Great. I don't care. I follow the verse and go on vacation. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. And for this one says man is head over the woman but I'm not married so whatever I don't have a head nor will I have one UNLESS I choose to marry. .... "I don't have a head nor will I have one unless I choose to marry"...you set yourself up for this one ...If it is any consolation with you and your multiple suitors, you are one of the types of girls I would never even think of courting let alone marrying ....you may stay "headless" for a while at this rate if this is how you treat men you don't know.... Okay, joking aside, and in more frank terms you are interpretting scripture for your own ends. I bring this up because this pattern seems to be repeating itself with your denomination...or whatever it is.Ephesians 5:22-23 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. But you cannot ignore Timothy under the sola scriptura approach... 2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles. 8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
It is not limited to married women alone....
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 19, 2018 19:24:00 GMT
So why are Catholics and orthodox saved? What is the requirement to go to heaven? Same reason as the protestants...because of their faith and works. Then why don’t they have their full faith in Christ? When they pray to Mary, Saints, images, statues, and they rely on priests, cardinals, and a pope(all whom have the title of ‘father’ within their church which is contrary to the Bible) for their traditions, ordinances, and interpretation of God’s word, how can you say for one second that they are saved?
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 19:24:12 GMT
. Let's see what Paul means. Women must be silent in churches since the leaders are men or men are the ones in authority there. Great. I don't care. I follow the verse and go on vacation. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. And for this one says man is head over the woman but I'm not married so whatever I don't have a head nor will I have one UNLESS I choose to marry. .... "I don't have a head nor will I have one unless I choose to marry"...you set yourself up for this one ...If it is any consolation with you and your multiple suitors, you are one of the types of girls I would never even think of courting let alone marrying ....you may stay "headless" for a while at this rate if this is how you treat men you don't know.... Okay, joking aside, and in more frank terms you are interpretting scripture for your own ends. I bring this up because this pattern seems to be repeating itself with your denomination...or whatever it is.Ephesians 5:22-23 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. But you cannot ignore Timothy under the sola scriptura approach... 2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles. 8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
It is not limited to married women alone....
You do realize both wrote to a church right? Here let me show you the connection. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. And from your verse A woman should learn in quietness and full submission
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 19:25:22 GMT
Same reason as the protestants...because of their faith and works. Then why don’t they have their full faith in Christ? When they pray to Mary, Saints, images, statues, and they rely on priests, cardinals, and a pope(all whom have the title of ‘father’ within their church which is contrary to the Bible) for their traditions, ordinances, and interpretation of God’s word, how can you say for one second that they are saved? Why don't you have more faith in the Church, like Jesus did, as they are the Body of Christ? "Love other's as I have love you...".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 19:31:38 GMT
But you cannot ignore Timothy under the sola scriptura approach... 2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles. 8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
It is not limited to married women alone....
You do realize both wrote to a church right? Here let me show you the connection. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. And from your verse A woman should learn in quietness and full submission If scripture alone is the authority, how can you ignore Timothy? This is not sola scriptura but subjective picking and choosing...a cafeteria form of Christianity. Elizabeth...let's face the blunt truth, from the perspective of scripture, you should not be preaching to me...you should be listening to me....I mean "really"....I am not trying to be offensive just stating the obvious. You are lucky I don't ask you to make me an emoji sandwich while you are at it...no thanks necessary...I am a generous guy. If a woman should ""learn" in quietness and full submission", why are you not quiet and submissive (relative to the religious discussion threads only) if this is your faith? Why don't you practice what you preach...even though you are technically not allowed to preach from a sola scriptura approach.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 19, 2018 19:37:36 GMT
Then why don’t they have their full faith in Christ? When they pray to Mary, Saints, images, statues, and they rely on priests, cardinals, and a pope(all whom have the title of ‘father’ within their church which is contrary to the Bible) for their traditions, ordinances, and interpretation of God’s word, how can you say for one second that they are saved? Why don't you have more faith in the Church, like Jesus did, as they are the Body of Christ? "Love other's as I have love you...". Because the Bible says over and over and over to put your faith in Christ. A church that prays to anything or anyone other than Christ and relies on men for their traditions, ordinances, and interpretation of God’s word is not a church that is after Christ, it is not a church that has their entire faith on Christ.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 19:39:20 GMT
You do realize both wrote to a church right? Here let me show you the connection. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. And from your verse A woman should learn in quietness and full submission If scripture alone is the authority, how can you ignore Timothy? This is not sola scriptura but subjective picking and choosing...a cafeteria form of Christianity. Elizabeth...let's face the blunt truth, from the perspective of scripture, you should not be preaching to me...you should be listening to me....I mean "really"....I am not trying to be offensive just stating the obvious. You are lucky I don't ask you to make me an emoji sandwich while you are at it...no thanks necessary...I am a generous guy. If a woman should ""learn" in quietness and full submission", why are you not quiet and submissive (relative to the religious discussion threads only) if this is your faith? Why don't you practice what you preach...even though you are technically not allowed to preach from a sola scriptura approach. Timothy is written to a church as Paul wrote ro a church! I am not in a church. Arktos is not a church. Only applies to church. Otherwise am allowed to preach always outside of a church. Matthew 28:19-20 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Plus men aren't allowed to preach when preaching wrong. This is why Paul corrected Peter and Peters Gospel was thrown out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 19:41:18 GMT
Why don't you have more faith in the Church, like Jesus did, as they are the Body of Christ? "Love other's as I have love you...". Because the Bible says over and over and over to put your faith in Christ. A church that prays to anything or anyone other than Christ and relies on men for their traditions, ordinances, and interpretation of God’s word is not a church that is after Christ. And the bible says over and over again the Church is the Body of Christ....You claim no tradition but what is scripture, but the Catholic/Orthodox churches gained their sacraments (breaking of the bread, anointing with oil, etc. from scripture)...so unless I am missing something your message does not add up. If the problem is relying on men for the interpretation of God's word, and you are a man, should I listen to your arguments? If I listen to scripture alone, then because of scripture, I am led to certain traditions other denominations have. It appears, and this will sound offensive (but it is not meant to be), you are trying to start a cult.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 19:45:29 GMT
If scripture alone is the authority, how can you ignore Timothy? This is not sola scriptura but subjective picking and choosing...a cafeteria form of Christianity. Elizabeth...let's face the blunt truth, from the perspective of scripture, you should not be preaching to me...you should be listening to me....I mean "really"....I am not trying to be offensive just stating the obvious. You are lucky I don't ask you to make me an emoji sandwich while you are at it...no thanks necessary...I am a generous guy. If a woman should ""learn" in quietness and full submission", why are you not quiet and submissive (relative to the religious discussion threads only) if this is your faith? Why don't you practice what you preach...even though you are technically not allowed to preach from a sola scriptura approach. Timothy is written to a church as Paul wrote ro a church! I am not in a church. Arktos is not a church. Only applies to church. Otherwise am allowed to preach always outside of a church. Matthew 28:19-20 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Plus men aren't allowed to preach when preaching wrong. This is why Paul corrected Peter and Peters Gospel was thrown out. A church is a group of believers, and the letter is directed to the behavior of all Christian Women whether in a service or not. Are you saying you do not exist with a group of Christians? Definition of Bible Church. : a Christian congregation that lays special emphasis on the Bible as the basis of faith and the inerrant word of God —used frequently in names of churches that hold such doctrines and do not have other denominational affiliations. www.bing.com/search?q=definition+of+church+in+scripture&qs=n&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=definition+of+church+in+scripture&sc=0-33&sk=&cvid=2B0130C43318462BBC8A0CC70A1988DEThe church is merely a group of Christians, not an actual building...even the Catholics/Orthodox agree with this. Let's face the obvious truth, and considering the length of this thread I believe other people can make the judgement on their own...You and DK are interpretting scripture for your own ends and pick and choose what verse you listen to and which one's you do not.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 19:45:56 GMT
Because the Bible says over and over and over to put your faith in Christ. A church that prays to anything or anyone other than Christ and relies on men for their traditions, ordinances, and interpretation of God’s word is not a church that is after Christ. And the bible says over and over again the Church is the Body of Christ....You claim no tradition but what is scripture, but the Catholic/Orthodox churches gained their sacraments (breaking of the bread, anointing with oil, etc. from scripture)...so unless I am missing something your message does not add up. If the problem is relying on men for the interpretation of God's word, and you are a man, should I listen to your arguments? If I listen to scripture alone, then because of scripture, I am led to certain traditions other denominations have. It appears, and this will sound offensive (but it is not meant to be), you are trying to start a cult. They annointed the sick with oil. It was thr commandment to love your neighbor. So when someone is sick to help them. It can just be give them medicine and not oil. Oil isn't a requirement but was used in loving the neighbor commandment to help. Good Sarmaritan story should tell you this. The man in the story loved the neighbor and helped him. It's not what he used to help but that he helped him and showed love. There's many ways to help in loving your neighbor.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 19:49:29 GMT
And the bible says over and over again the Church is the Body of Christ....You claim no tradition but what is scripture, but the Catholic/Orthodox churches gained their sacraments (breaking of the bread, anointing with oil, etc. from scripture)...so unless I am missing something your message does not add up. If the problem is relying on men for the interpretation of God's word, and you are a man, should I listen to your arguments? If I listen to scripture alone, then because of scripture, I am led to certain traditions other denominations have. It appears, and this will sound offensive (but it is not meant to be), you are trying to start a cult. They annointed the sick with oil. It was thr commandment to love your neighbor. So when someone is sick to help them. It can just be give them medicine and not oil. Oil isn't a requirement but was used in loving the neighbor commandment to help. Good Sarmaritan story should tell you this. The man in the story loved the neighbor and helped him. It's not what he used to help but that he helped him and showed love. There's many ways to help in loving your neighbor. I always loved my neighbor , the girl next door, kept love under control and didnt call the need for an oil .
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 19, 2018 19:49:36 GMT
Because the Bible says over and over and over to put your faith in Christ. A church that prays to anything or anyone other than Christ and relies on men for their traditions, ordinances, and interpretation of God’s word is not a church that is after Christ. And the bible says over and over again the Church is the Body of Christ....You claim no tradition but what is scripture, but the Catholic/Orthodox churches gained their sacraments (breaking of the bread, anointing with oil, etc. from scripture)...so unless I am missing something your message does not add up. If the problem is relying on men for the interpretation of God's word, and you are a man, should I listen to your arguments? If I listen to scripture alone, then because of scripture, I am led to certain traditions other denominations have. It appears, and this will sound offensive (but it is not meant to be), you are trying to start a cult. A church that DOES NOT have its full faith in Christ is NOT a part of the body of Christ. How is this so difficult to understand for someone who says they are right about everything? No you shouldn’t listen to me, you should pray to God for understanding and rely on the Holy Spirit like the Bible says to do. Scripture says to do this, contrary to this IS relying on men which scripture says NOT to do!
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 19, 2018 19:50:09 GMT
Timothy is written to a church as Paul wrote ro a church! I am not in a church. Arktos is not a church. Only applies to church. Otherwise am allowed to preach always outside of a church. Matthew 28:19-20 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Plus men aren't allowed to preach when preaching wrong. This is why Paul corrected Peter and Peters Gospel was thrown out. A church is a group of believers, and the letter is directed to the behavior of all Christian Women whether in a service or not. Are you saying you do not exist with a group of Christians? Definition of Bible Church. : a Christian congregation that lays special emphasis on the Bible as the basis of faith and the inerrant word of God —used frequently in names of churches that hold such doctrines and do not have other denominational affiliations. www.bing.com/search?q=definition+of+church+in+scripture&qs=n&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=definition+of+church+in+scripture&sc=0-33&sk=&cvid=2B0130C43318462BBC8A0CC70A1988DEThe church is merely a group of Christians, not an actual building...even the Catholics/Orthodox agree with this. Let's face the obvious truth, and considering the length of this thread I believe other people can make the judgement on their own...You and DK are interpretting scripture for your own ends and pick and choose what verse you listen to and which one's you do not. This is why you must used scripture only. Ephesians 2 21.in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. Church has 2 definitions. A building and the sheep. I cannot preach in the church but don't need to stay silent outside of it. As Paul said let them wait till later to speak but not in the church. Later means outside the building.
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