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Post by xxxxxxxxx on May 3, 2023 19:38:31 GMT
1. Meaning is derived from one phenomenon being direct to another phenomenon. 2. Meaninglessness is the absence of one phenomenon being directed to another phenomenon. 3. If everything has meaning then all phenomenon are directed to a phenomenon beyond them. 4. If everything is without meaning then all phenomenon are not directed to a phenomenon beyond them. 5. Meaning is a phenomenon and as a phenomenon is directed towards itself as 'meaning means meaning' if everything has meaning.
6. If only directed towards itself then meaning is self-referential and without the necessary comparison for it to be something. 7. Meaning is thus meaningless as it is not directed towards anything beyond it. 8. 'Meaninglessness' means 'meaninglessness' thus follows the logic of points 6 and 7. 9. 'Meaninglessness' is without meaning thus self-negates leaving us with nothing other than meaning. 10. 'Meaning' and 'meaninglessness' both self-refute thus resulting in the other, this dichotomy leaves us with the absurdity of there both being meaning and meaninglessness.
1. Meaning is an extreme. 2. Meaninglessness is an extreme. 3. As extremes, and opposites, both cancel each other out thus leaving us with neither.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 5, 2023 12:09:32 GMT
Must say that neither 1, nor 2 are obvious. Actually, the meaning is merely dim and vague.
Let's say you understand a certain concept, so you wanna know where or how did you get that concept to be understood? It might be presented in your head since your birth (Socrates, Plato), or taken from the outer reality (Locke), or this is derived both from you and reality as some kind of the merge or the fusion (Abelard). In any case there are situations for which no certain concepts are needed. Let's say you meet a girl, and you don't speak her a word, while she understood you and did what you wanted she did; or it might be that the concept lighted in your head, and you don't even realize how that was happened. In that latter case any rational explanations are faded or gloomed. But doesn't it mean you don't understand something? - No, it does not.
And this is not about it. The most difficult riddle and along with it the most often phenomenon that happens almost everyday is that people can understand each other telling a lie, or telling nonsense, or kinda. Let's say a girlfriend asked her boyfriend to came her that night, while she meant not that, she supposed her boyfriend ignored her; the boyfriend got that information being twisted (let's say that was another girl who loved that guy, and she wanted to break the couple), but as soon as he got that information wrongly he ignored her ask, however the result will the same as the girlfriend expected. So, we don't even know anything for certain as soon as the information we're using is some kind of a mediator who delivers it from us to someone else. And until we are necessary sure about that mediator and all the path - we never know about the meaning.
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on May 5, 2023 18:42:33 GMT
Must say that neither 1, nor 2 are obvious. Actually, the meaning is merely dim and vague. Let's say you understand a certain concept, so you wanna know where or how did you get that concept to be understood? It might be presented in your head since your birth (Socrates, Plato), or taken from the outer reality (Locke), or this is derived both from you and reality as some kind of the merge or the fusion (Abelard). In any case there are situations for which no certain concepts are needed. Let's say you meet a girl, and you don't speak her a word, while she understood you and did what you wanted she did; or it might be that the concept lighted in your head, and you don't even realize how that was happened. In that latter case any rational explanations are faded or gloomed. But doesn't it mean you don't understand something? - No, it does not. And this is not about it. The most difficult riddle and along with it the most often phenomenon that happens almost everyday is that people can understand each other telling a lie, or telling nonsense, or kinda. Let's say a girlfriend asked her boyfriend to came her that night, while she meant not that, she supposed her boyfriend ignored her; the boyfriend got that information being twisted (let's say that was another girl who loved that guy, and she wanted to break the couple), but as soon as he got that information wrongly he ignored her ask, however the result will the same as the girlfriend expected. So, we don't even know anything for certain as soon as the information we're using is some kind of a mediator who delivers it from us to someone else. And until we are necessary sure about that mediator and all the path - we never know about the meaning. If A means B then A is directed towards B, A leads to B; meaning is direction. If A does not mean B then A is not directed towards B, A does not lead to B thus A is absent of meaning relative to B.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 5, 2023 18:52:31 GMT
Must say that neither 1, nor 2 are obvious. Actually, the meaning is merely dim and vague. Let's say you understand a certain concept, so you wanna know where or how did you get that concept to be understood? It might be presented in your head since your birth (Socrates, Plato), or taken from the outer reality (Locke), or this is derived both from you and reality as some kind of the merge or the fusion (Abelard). In any case there are situations for which no certain concepts are needed. Let's say you meet a girl, and you don't speak her a word, while she understood you and did what you wanted she did; or it might be that the concept lighted in your head, and you don't even realize how that was happened. In that latter case any rational explanations are faded or gloomed. But doesn't it mean you don't understand something? - No, it does not. And this is not about it. The most difficult riddle and along with it the most often phenomenon that happens almost everyday is that people can understand each other telling a lie, or telling nonsense, or kinda. Let's say a girlfriend asked her boyfriend to came her that night, while she meant not that, she supposed her boyfriend ignored her; the boyfriend got that information being twisted (let's say that was another girl who loved that guy, and she wanted to break the couple), but as soon as he got that information wrongly he ignored her ask, however the result will the same as the girlfriend expected. So, we don't even know anything for certain as soon as the information we're using is some kind of a mediator who delivers it from us to someone else. And until we are necessary sure about that mediator and all the path - we never know about the meaning. If A means B then A is directed towards B, A leads to B; meaning is direction. If A does not mean B then A is not directed towards B, A does not lead to B thus A is absent of meaning relative to B. What you've described is not meaning, but reference. The meaning is more complex, it might have connotations. Let's say there's a phrase "what a donkey". It might be about as a person who's lazy, or about an indeed good donkey. Here's the reference either to the actual donkey, or to the abstract emptiness. If A means B, and B means C, C means D - this is a dead circle. There's no way out.
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on May 5, 2023 19:32:15 GMT
If A means B then A is directed towards B, A leads to B; meaning is direction. If A does not mean B then A is not directed towards B, A does not lead to B thus A is absent of meaning relative to B. What you've described is not meaning, but reference. The meaning is more complex, it might have connotations. Let's say there's a phrase "what a donkey". It might be about as a person who's lazy, or about an indeed good donkey. Here's the reference either to the actual donkey, or to the abstract emptiness. If A means B, and B means C, C means D - this is a dead circle. There's no way out. Mean: "intend to convey, indicate, or refer to (a particular thing or notion); signify." www.google.com/search?q=mean+definition&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS1056US1056&ei=dllVZOf9HbGwptQP1LStuAk&ved=0ahUKEwjnkOGi9d7-AhUxmIkEHVRaC5cQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=mean+definition&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIOCAAQigUQsQMQgwEQkQIyCwgAEIAEELEDEIMBMgcIABCKBRBDMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIICAAQigUQkQIyBggAEAcQHjIHCAAQigUQQzIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB46CggAEEcQ1gQQsAM6CggAEIoFELADEEM6EggAEA0QgAQQsQMQsQMQRhD5AUoECEEYAFC3E1jvGGCVHmgBcAF4AIABbIgBoAKSAQMyLjGYAQCgAQHIAQrAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 5, 2023 20:13:44 GMT
What you've described is not meaning, but reference. The meaning is more complex, it might have connotations. Let's say there's a phrase "what a donkey". It might be about as a person who's lazy, or about an indeed good donkey. Here's the reference either to the actual donkey, or to the abstract emptiness. If A means B, and B means C, C means D - this is a dead circle. There's no way out. Mean: "intend to convey, indicate, or refer to (a particular thing or notion); signify." google is trash; might be that your meaning of meaning was not the same as mine. Anyway, a means b, b means c, and so on doesn't work anyway.
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on May 5, 2023 20:22:25 GMT
Mean: "intend to convey, indicate, or refer to (a particular thing or notion); signify." google is trash; might be that your meaning of meaning was not the same as mine. Anyway, a means b, b means c, and so on doesn't work anyway. If google is trash then you are spitting on the hand allowing for this forum to occur. If A means B and B means C...so on and so forth then meaning is indefinite due to an infinite regress. If all things mean something else and these things are composed of meta-things which mean things then meaning means meaning and this self-referentiality leaves it meaning nothing.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 5, 2023 20:29:07 GMT
google is trash; might be that your meaning of meaning was not the same as mine. Anyway, a means b, b means c, and so on doesn't work anyway. If google is trash then you are spitting on the hand allowing for this forum to occur. If A means B and B means C...so on and so forth then meaning is indefinite due to an infinite regress. If all things mean something else and these things are composed of meta-things which mean things then meaning means meaning and this self-referentiality leaves it meaning nothing. I don't know what do you mean by what you say about the forum. You don't like it or something? By the way, here's the explanation to this paradox of the infinite regress: there must be a simplest or the elementary thing that must be accepted or assumed by many. Otherwise, people would never stop referring to something else.
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on May 5, 2023 20:45:30 GMT
If google is trash then you are spitting on the hand allowing for this forum to occur. If A means B and B means C...so on and so forth then meaning is indefinite due to an infinite regress. If all things mean something else and these things are composed of meta-things which mean things then meaning means meaning and this self-referentiality leaves it meaning nothing. I don't know what do you mean by what you say about the forum. You don't like it or something? By the way, here's the explanation to this paradox of the infinite regress: there must be a simplest or the elementary thing that must be accepted or assumed by many. Otherwise, people would never stop referring to something else. I found this forum because of google. Google helps this forum. To say google is trash is to say what helps this forum is trash. As to the paradox; the simplest thing is a point in space (as space) and yet the point is directed to a point beyond it thus it is always pointed to something beyond itself while simultaneously pointing to itself as one point is not different to another, as it is space, yet is different due to space. Further to the paradox; if acceptance by the many is the composition of truth then we are left with contradiction when people do not accept group agreement as the foundation. Many people accept the earth as round. Many people accept the earth as flat.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 5, 2023 20:53:19 GMT
I don't know what do you mean by what you say about the forum. You don't like it or something? By the way, here's the explanation to this paradox of the infinite regress: there must be a simplest or the elementary thing that must be accepted or assumed by many. Otherwise, people would never stop referring to something else. I found this forum because of google. Google helps this forum. To say google is trash is to say what helps this forum is trash. As to the paradox; the simplest thing is a point in space (as space) and yet the point is directed to a point beyond it thus it is always pointed to something beyond itself while simultaneously pointing to itself as one point is not different to another, as it is space, yet is different due to space. Further to the paradox; if acceptance by the many is the composition of truth then we are left with contradiction when people do not accept group agreement as the foundation. Many people accept the earth as round. Many people accept the earth as flat. Must say I didn't know google can present this forum. I never did so. Elizabeth invited me from another forum that doesn't exist anymore. Okay, so know I know this. Thanks! You complicated the subject, that's why it became less clear it was before. All I was saying here was that any reduction ends with nothing. Oh, yes - you said just the same I did a couple of answers above: I was saying that it was possible for a concept or meaning to went away. It is actually possible for people to talk about nothing. You also confirmed it sayin' that philosophy is opinionated: on each your argument there is another counterargument... so this process is endless. Even if this is true, it doesn't mean there are no meaning. We will find it out as soon as the nature of concepts become more and more clearer. As Aristotle said back then that philosophy is about why x=x. Surely, many people may perceive the flat of the Earth, but this would be false. I see that the horizon is curved, but I cannot entail that the Earth is curved. That would be an exaggeration.
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