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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 15, 2021 20:22:36 GMT
Indeed, all those museums, exhibitions, memorials... maybe our predecessors or those persons wanted to have some decency and glory to them. Maybe they didn't want to be exposed. And meanwhile their remains are being discovered to publicity. I don't think there's a bit of honor to the late people. If people are people they got to have some pride not to violate the will of the dead ones.
What do you think of this, and what do you think of that the archeology is rather an art of stealing things. It's like the archeologists and sorta bring some excuses about their job, while keeping the process or robbering. I can't believe this is gonna be reckoned as a moral act, as an act of ethics.
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Post by thesageofmainstreet on Dec 15, 2021 22:17:58 GMT
Indeed, all those museums, exhibitions, memorials... maybe our predecessors or those persons wanted to have some decency and glory to them. Maybe they didn't want to be exposed. And meanwhile their remains are being discovered to publicity. I don't think there's a bit of honor to the late people. If people are people they got to have some pride not to violate the will of the dead ones. What do you think of this, and what do you think of that the archeology is rather an art of stealing things. It's like the archeologists and sorta bring some excuses about their job, while keeping the process or robbering. I can't believe this is gonna be reckoned as a moral act, as an act of ethics. The dead are gone; they have no rights over the living. They can't block progress, like the American Indian savages' burial grounds stopping transportation of our oil resources. They can't even block an individual trying to earn a living through hard work, or an archeologist trying to come up with historical sociological ideas. |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 15, 2021 22:29:19 GMT
Indeed, all those museums, exhibitions, memorials... maybe our predecessors or those persons wanted to have some decency and glory to them. Maybe they didn't want to be exposed. And meanwhile their remains are being discovered to publicity. I don't think there's a bit of honor to the late people. If people are people they got to have some pride not to violate the will of the dead ones. What do you think of this, and what do you think of that the archeology is rather an art of stealing things. It's like the archeologists and sorta bring some excuses about their job, while keeping the process or robbering. I can't believe this is gonna be reckoned as a moral act, as an act of ethics. The dead are gone; they have no rights over the living. They can't block progress, like the American Indian savages' burial grounds stopping transportation of our oil resources. They can't even block an individual trying to earn a living through hard work, or an archeologist trying to come up with historical sociological ideas. Maybe it's true. I don't know for sure, but if we show no respect to the dead ones, then the descendants would show no respect for us or our ideas. If persons = parts of bodies, then why not to become cannibals or murderers? |
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP 
Elder
Posts: 2,697 
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
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Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Dec 16, 2021 2:35:18 GMT
Eh, there might be some honor in having their stuff displayed to their successors. I remember when things taken out of a tomb from Ancient Egypt made the rounds in my local State Museum, the golden walls engraved with hieroglyphs and depictions of the Egyptian gods, the tomb casket, the chariots, the mummy itself, and other miscellaneous items attesting to the glory and riches of Egypt, and speaking for myself and the folks around me, we were struck with awe and admiration for those long dead ancient people and their achievements.
I think that displaying what our ancestors did and showing them off to their descendants in all their glory to be admired and to inspire a sense of pride in them is giving our ancestors more honor than if we just left them rotting in a tomb with riches, and valuables, and beautiful priceless artifacts attesting to their glory that are no good to them or anyone else hidden away.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 16, 2021 13:58:13 GMT
Eh, there might be some honor in having their stuff displayed to their successors. I remember when things taken out of a tomb from Ancient Egypt made the rounds in my local State Museum, the golden walls engraved with hieroglyphs and depictions of the Egyptian gods, the tomb casket, the chariots, the mummy itself, and other miscellaneous items attesting to the glory and riches of Egypt, and speaking for myself and the folks around me, we were struck with awe and admiration for those long dead ancient people and their achievements. I think that displaying what our ancestors did and showing them off to their descendants in all their glory to be admired and to inspire a sense of pride in them is giving our ancestors more honor than if we just left them rotting in a tomb with riches, and valuables, and beautiful priceless artifacts attesting to their glory that are no good to them or anyone else hidden away. Thank you for answering. Well, I cannot disagree that something good in the exposions is presented. Also, I don't think that the Egypt's remains to expose was a bad thing. This may be assumed as some kind of glorification to our predecessors or to some persons in past and so on. Besides, it's been doing almost all the history by our predecessors, I mean to expose the remains or to study it. So, as a science aspect it's accepted and useful. Despite this fact, there are some moral barriers might be raised. I'm talking about a thought that to be certain in these things we have to be sure. And not every person of those late persons would agree with that their remains would be exposesed and presented to publicity. i'd say there are still some problems occur. Thus if this act of exposition is necessary, let's say some students have to know the past or some scientists should study something to discover new methods or to break some gaps in science and so on, then museums and exhibiitons are accepted. I guess you know about the fact that the first Christians gathered in graveyards or among tombs. As the other researchers said they did it, because they thought those places were most sacred, and since that their gatherings were in some way blessed. So, I want to ask you about this, if you don't mind. Firstly, what do you think of that from the perspective of pagan traditions, I mean do you think it was some kind of a pagan feature or tradition? And don't you think that the tradition to be polite and careful with the remains of Christians (and maybe not only with theirs) was a good point of them? |
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Post by thesageofmainstreet on Dec 16, 2021 20:38:57 GMT
Be Suspicious of SuperstitionThe dead are gone; they have no rights over the living. They can't block progress, like the American Indian savages' burial grounds stopping transportation of our oil resources. They can't even block an individual trying to earn a living through hard work, or an archeologist trying to come up with historical sociological ideas. Maybe it's true. I don't know for sure, but if we show no respect to the dead ones, then the descendants would show no respect for us or our ideas. If persons = parts of bodies, then why not to become cannibals or murderers? The American Indians blocking the pipeline have no reason to respect their ancestors. The Egyptians have no reason to respect the Pharoahs' carcasses in the pyramids and needed the tyrants' loot buried there to reduce their poverty rate. |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 17, 2021 13:18:38 GMT
Maybe it's true. I don't know for sure, but if we show no respect to the dead ones, then the descendants would show no respect for us or our ideas. If persons = parts of bodies, then why not to become cannibals or murderers? The American Indians blocking the pipeline have no reason to respect their ancestors. The Egyptians have no reason to respect the Pharoahs' carcasses in the pyramids and needed the tyrants' loot buried there to reduce their poverty rate. If we can't show our honor to anyone except for our personal choice are we still human beings? Somebody should find our life to be decent, or else why do we live our lives and for whom? |
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Post by thesageofmainstreet on Dec 17, 2021 19:35:06 GMT
Just Like With the Cancer of Heritance, the Dead Have No Right to Block Future Generations of Their NationThe American Indians blocking the pipeline have no reason to respect their ancestors. The Egyptians have no reason to respect the Pharoahs' carcasses in the pyramids and needed the tyrants' loot buried there to reduce their poverty rate. If we can't show our honor to anyone except for our personal choice are we still human beings? Somebody should find our life to be decent, or else why do we live our lives and for whom? Savages and tyrants have no reason to live at all. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 18, 2021 18:44:45 GMT
The dead person will not need it nor is it theirs any longer. It is like a finders keepers thing then. Personally, I don't want anything near a dead body. I will barely consider taking the money but anything else...nope.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 18, 2021 20:57:37 GMT
The dead person will not need it nor is it theirs any longer. It is like a finders keepers thing then. Personally, I don't want anything near a dead body. I will barely consider taking the money but anything else...nope. Taking money or any goods from deads is called marauding or looting. Even to a dead person there has to be shown some respect. Animals don't bury themselves, only people are rational and moral persons, and they've got some moral duties. I guess being able to show some respect to the dead ones is something that not only differs us from the animals, but that what that differs us from the pagans. In pre-Christian epoche there were cannibalism, anarchism, and marauding. Those people had no moral duty, and that's why they had to be enlightened by our Lord Jesus Christ's words to get an access to the eternal life. "As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. 58 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb" (Matthews 27: 57-61) |
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Post by jonbain on Dec 19, 2021 9:01:26 GMT
I can recall as a teenager ;
drunk and looking for a quiet place to roll and smoke a spliff ;
i found a graveyard ;
the others were too terrified to follow me ;
so i climbed the gate and sat down on some guy's grave ;
rolled and smoked my spliff in a stat of ecstatic calm.
I think the high had less to do with those substances
and more with how that space of death had been shunned
so that it became a place of finding mind and life; peace.
As our environment becomes concrete for the sake of the
profits of tyrants ; I protect with my life that ancient burial
site of those tribes I lived with in past lives.
Or any colonial graveyard ; simply as places that
the unseen and little known parts of nature can rest.
To hell with industry.
Its a mindless soulless abomination with a purpose of
its own that will turn the world into a wasteland
if its not stopped DEAD in its tracks.
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 20, 2021 5:27:56 GMT
The dead person will not need it nor is it theirs any longer. It is like a finders keepers thing then. Personally, I don't want anything near a dead body. I will barely consider taking the money but anything else...nope. Taking money or any goods from deads is called marauding or looting. Even to a dead person there has to be shown some respect. Animals don't bury themselves, only people are rational and moral persons, and they've got some moral duties. I guess being able to show some respect to the dead ones is something that not only differs us from the animals, but that what that differs us from the pagans. In pre-Christian epoche there were cannibalism, anarchism, and marauding. Those people had no moral duty, and that's why they had to be enlightened by our Lord Jesus Christ's words to get an access to the eternal life. "As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. 58 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb" (Matthews 27: 57-61) Bible just has us bury them but even at times that isn't all that important either. Jesus once said "let the dead bury themselves". So even we can just let them be if say you need to go super fast for an important reason like a hurricane then go and forget the dead. It will just return to dust anyway. And bugs and things will eat it. Respect is meant for the living. Not so much a corpse.  |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 20, 2021 17:31:45 GMT
Taking money or any goods from deads is called marauding or looting. Even to a dead person there has to be shown some respect. Animals don't bury themselves, only people are rational and moral persons, and they've got some moral duties. I guess being able to show some respect to the dead ones is something that not only differs us from the animals, but that what that differs us from the pagans. In pre-Christian epoche there were cannibalism, anarchism, and marauding. Those people had no moral duty, and that's why they had to be enlightened by our Lord Jesus Christ's words to get an access to the eternal life. "As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. 58 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb" (Matthews 27: 57-61) Bible just has us bury them but even at times that isn't all that important either. Jesus once said "let the dead bury themselves". So even we can just let them be if say you need to go super fast for an important reason like a hurricane then go and forget the dead. It will just return to dust anyway. And bugs and things will eat it. Respect is meant for the living. Not so much a corpse. Shrug: Okay, but doesn't it mean those who don't respect the dead ones are glad those dead be dead? I mean the next one, let's imagine that there was a women who had a friend, and her friend had a super cool newest of the newest iphone. And suddenly the friend of that women died. Didn't that women be glad to finally had the phone of her dead friend? I think she was very like to be such, I mean she was glad. Or another one, let's imagine one man had a good friend of him. And suddenly that friend died, but before he pleased that man to bring back the necklace to the friend of that friend of that man... If that man (who had a friend) would get that necklace to the friend of his friend back he would fulfill the promise. And this scenario people would find the best, wouldn't it? There are literature, books, movies, and many of them tell us about morality and ethics. And many of them present us good examples. I think there are necessary moral principles, and if I'm right then there must be some promises to dying people. And how can we differ those asks from just acts of robbering? It is a problem. |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 20, 2021 18:09:06 GMT
I can recall as a teenager ; drunk and looking for a quiet place to roll and smoke a spliff ; i found a graveyard ; the others were too terrified to follow me ; so i climbed the gate and sat down on some guy's grave ; rolled and smoked my spliff in a stat of ecstatic calm. I think the high had less to do with those substances and more with how that space of death had been shunned so that it became a place of finding mind and life; peace. As our environment becomes concrete for the sake of the profits of tyrants ; I protect with my life that ancient burial site of those tribes I lived with in past lives. Or any colonial graveyard ; simply as places that the unseen and little known parts of nature can rest. To hell with industry. Its a mindless soulless abomination with a purpose of its own that will turn the world into a wasteland if its not stopped DEAD in its tracks. I read your post once more, and read it once again. The words of yours made thoughts of mine to move. Some mechanisms were gritting not too smooth, And as the Sun's that send to us its sparks, I saw the light of day within my wholeness dark. "Of course, - I thought - Jonban's as always right. He's told the truth about what's going on. Of those the scared who had escaped from light That sent by tombs. Of those who like machines Had never seen a glimpse of the white beams". "Are we machines?" - I asked myself and then The silence came, thereby rang loudly twice. The ground beneath was like the melting ice, But one important thought had burnt my head I got that "the machines never respect the dead". |
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 22, 2021 9:51:14 GMT
Bible just has us bury them but even at times that isn't all that important either. Jesus once said "let the dead bury themselves". So even we can just let them be if say you need to go super fast for an important reason like a hurricane then go and forget the dead. It will just return to dust anyway. And bugs and things will eat it. Respect is meant for the living. Not so much a corpse. Okay, but doesn't it mean those who don't respect the dead ones are glad those dead be dead? I mean the next one, let's imagine that there was a women who had a friend, and her friend had a super cool newest of the newest iphone. And suddenly the friend of that women died. Didn't that women be glad to finally had the phone of her dead friend? I think she was very like to be such, I mean she was glad. Or another one, let's imagine one man had a good friend of him. And suddenly that friend died, but before he pleased that man to bring back the necklace to the friend of that friend of that man... If that man (who had a friend) would get that necklace to the friend of his friend back he would fulfill the promise. And this scenario people would find the best, wouldn't it? There are literature, books, movies, and many of them tell us about morality and ethics. And many of them present us good examples. I think there are necessary moral principles, and if I'm right then there must be some promises to dying people. And how can we differ those asks from just acts of robbering? It is a problem. I think that is looking at it negatively. I am not looking at it positively either as in I'm glad to get rid of someone. I will be sad still and miss them but I am looking at it neutrally and logically. Meaning... 1) God said it was their time to go. I don't plan on acting like I'm smarter or better than God to disagree with that. 2) It is not a permanent death. It is simply their relocation to real home where they will spend enternity. Earth wasn't ever they're real life but a part before their life. Like we existed for some time in a tummy before birth and now we exist in flesh before new birth elsewhere. It is just a quick phase or passage of time here and not anything permanent. 3) Nothing that we supposedly own here is even ours. It is only borrowed. For example, in the tummy phase we probably thought we owned the umbilical cord but we didn't. After that stage of our life we had to give all that up for another child to be there and have everything or just return everything back to the mother because tummy was no longer ours when we left that stage. When we live earth life stage we will give up the stuff we borrowed during this stage because it is not really ours anymore either. If something was really ours it would be with us in all stages. Therefore, there is no such thing as robbing a tomb. The dead man owns nothing here. |
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