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Post by fschmidt on Jun 5, 2021 17:15:44 GMT
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 5, 2021 18:00:39 GMT
This is an example that touches my whole life. I think it seems to be the most wider. Indeed, Christianity has to be more important, than anything, and my feelings of non-sympathy, wrath, offenses, pain and sorrows (caused by the people) are just feelings. They belong to this half-imaginary or illusionary world. I guess for a Christian there is heaven. This world is not the location for heavens, or, at least, it was that location; but no more it is that.
In my own way I interpret these words of loving everyone isn't the same way Kant does. Kant had formulated his imperative to perform actions, and he mentioned those actions were for anyone. So, if I put 'love' in that imperative, I had to love everyone.
Instead, I think that I should not hate my enemies and must forgive them. I cannot love all the people, all the imaginary ones, etc. Because for me it is impossible. Only God can love everyone. I can try to not hate those I am able to hate.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
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Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jun 13, 2021 9:22:55 GMT
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A43-48&version=KJVMatthew 5:43-48 King James Version "43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Notice that Jesus contrasts the word neighbor to the word enemy. He is stating don't just love your neighbor as is the position you've articulated but your enemy whomever they may be. Thus the enemies here are most emphatically NOT your neighbor but your enemy, any enemy at all.This idea is not foreign to the Old Testament either. The entire story of Jonah is a satire mocking your mindset which was the mindset of the Jews at the time. Jonah hated the Assyrians and wanted them all dead so when God told Jonah to warn the Ninevites of their coming destruction so that they could turn from their evil and be spared he ran away in the other direction. Of course the story ends with him being swallowed by a giant fish and being vomited up on the shores of Ninevah where he warns them and they do in fact repent. When they repent Jonah still waits and wishes for God to destroy them and while he does this a plant grows and shades Jonah from the sun. Then a worm eats the plant and the plant dies and God asks Jonah if he's sad that the plant died. Jonah responds by saying that he was, sad enough to die. Then God responds by saying that if Jonah cares so much about a mere plant shouldn't God care about human life? The Assyrians, I might add were far more brutal, evil, and degenerate than modern Westerners which is why the Jews saw them the way Jonah did. Humanity may be wicked and evil but they always have been and we shouldn't hate them and wish death upon them. We should pray for them and wish that they repent. It is God who decides whether to judge them or spare them not you.
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Post by fschmidt on Jun 13, 2021 18:09:53 GMT
You have a strong argument about Matthew 5:43-48. All I can say is that Jesus is wrong here, but obviously this view won't appeal to Christians.
But you are wrong about Jonah. First of all, Jonah wasn't required to love the Assyrians, only to warn them. I warn modern scum about their sins all the time. And the people of Nineveh repented, something that modern scum would never do. This proves that modern scum are worse. Modern scum are at the level of Sodom and Gomorrah. The only solution is for modern scum to be exterminated because they are irredeemable, just as was the case for Sodom and Gomorrah.
All emotions serve a purpose. The purpose of hatred is to reject and avoid what is harmful. Modern scum are harmful, so hating them helps you reject their ways and avoid them. So it is best to hate modern scum.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 13, 2021 22:56:12 GMT
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A43-48&version=KJVMatthew 5:43-48 King James Version "43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Notice that Jesus contrasts the word neighbor to the word enemy. He is stating don't just love your neighbor as is the position you've articulated but your enemy whomever they may be. Thus the enemies here are most emphatically NOT your neighbor but your enemy, any enemy at all.This idea is not foreign to the Old Testament either. The entire story of Jonah is a satire mocking your mindset which was the mindset of the Jews at the time. Jonah hated the Assyrians and wanted them all dead so when God told Jonah to warn the Ninevites of their coming destruction so that they could turn from their evil and be spared he ran away in the other direction. Of course the story ends with him being swallowed by a giant fish and being vomited up on the shores of Ninevah where he warns them and they do in fact repent. When they repent Jonah still waits and wishes for God to destroy them and while he does this a plant grows and shades Jonah from the sun. Then a worm eats the plant and the plant dies and God asks Jonah if he's sad that the plant died. Jonah responds by saying that he was, sad enough to die. Then God responds by saying that if Jonah cares so much about a mere plant shouldn't God care about human life? The Assyrians, I might add were far more brutal, evil, and degenerate than modern Westerners which is why the Jews saw them the way Jonah did. Humanity may be wicked and evil but they always have been and we shouldn't hate them and wish death upon them. We should pray for them and wish that they repent. It is God who decides whether to judge them or spare them not you. "Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else. Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil. May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it". (1st Thessallonians 5: 15-24) |
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jun 14, 2021 2:13:54 GMT
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A43-48&version=KJVMatthew 5:43-48 King James Version "43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Notice that Jesus contrasts the word neighbor to the word enemy. He is stating don't just love your neighbor as is the position you've articulated but your enemy whomever they may be. Thus the enemies here are most emphatically NOT your neighbor but your enemy, any enemy at all.This idea is not foreign to the Old Testament either. The entire story of Jonah is a satire mocking your mindset which was the mindset of the Jews at the time. Jonah hated the Assyrians and wanted them all dead so when God told Jonah to warn the Ninevites of their coming destruction so that they could turn from their evil and be spared he ran away in the other direction. Of course the story ends with him being swallowed by a giant fish and being vomited up on the shores of Ninevah where he warns them and they do in fact repent. When they repent Jonah still waits and wishes for God to destroy them and while he does this a plant grows and shades Jonah from the sun. Then a worm eats the plant and the plant dies and God asks Jonah if he's sad that the plant died. Jonah responds by saying that he was, sad enough to die. Then God responds by saying that if Jonah cares so much about a mere plant shouldn't God care about human life? The Assyrians, I might add were far more brutal, evil, and degenerate than modern Westerners which is why the Jews saw them the way Jonah did. Humanity may be wicked and evil but they always have been and we shouldn't hate them and wish death upon them. We should pray for them and wish that they repent. It is God who decides whether to judge them or spare them not you. "Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else. Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil. May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it". (1st Thessallonians 5: 15-24) Where I come from we have a saying. Hate the sin, love the sinner. That is probably the best summation of Jesus's position on this I've heard. Hate all evil but love all people, even the evil ones. I hate everything Hitler ever did and stood for but I lament that he is in hell though he deserves it. I had rather wished he had repented and found salvation in the end. I hold this opinion because God wishes that no man should perish but that everyone should have everlasting life. |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 15, 2021 13:50:58 GMT
"Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else. Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil. May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it". (1st Thessallonians 5: 15-24) Where I come from we have a saying. Hate the sin, love the sinner. That is probably the best summation of Jesus's position on this I've heard. Hate all evil but love all people, even the evil ones. I hate everything Hitler ever did and stood for but I lament that he is in hell though he deserves it. I had rather wished he had repented and found salvation in the end. I hold this opinion because God wishes that no man should perish but that everyone should have everlasting life. Some of relatives of mine died during the WWII. So, I think I have more moral duties to hate Hitler, but I won't. Why? - Jesus Christ clearly said that: "Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.
“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them". (Lk 6: 26-29) "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful". (Lk 6: 36) "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well". (Mathew 5: 38-40). Surely, you're right notifying that only deeds, not the actors (the initiators) we have to hate. But why should I waste my time and energy for hating something I don't really get with? As Jesus Christ said: "...first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye". (Mathew 5:7) I mean instead of staring precisely at someone's deeds (especially when I don't really know the details) if I can use reflection: to take a look at myself. |
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