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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 9, 2020 21:57:28 GMT
The assumption of assumption results in a tautology through the isomorphism of one assumption into many, and the recursion as the underlying assumptions which stems across all of its variations. This begins with the point of view, under the Principle of Explosion where from self-contradiction (the formlessness of formlessness) anything follows. It also occurs under the Big Bang where all being occurs from the voiding of void. All empirical and abstract being results from a circular doubling.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 10, 2020 11:20:46 GMT
assuming that there was a beginning that is
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Post by jonbain on Dec 10, 2020 16:08:10 GMT
you seem to have an assumptive stumbling block yes, all ideas start with assumptions, but some assumptions end up in contradiction whereas others result in no contradictions when there is only one model that has no contradictions then that is most likely founded on correct assumptions and has to be taken as the best theory even if better theories may eventually arise - until they do, thats the working model - at least in a logical institution it should work that way so much for epistemology, but more to the point of the ontology of the matter: if the singularity disintegrated due to an explosive force then all orbits would be at various angles and directions, as well as a variety of eccentricities (not so circular) and there would be no logical reason for an ecliptic plane for galaxies nor solar systems only if the singularity splits due to ongoing spin will the orbits come apart neatly into the binary pairs required for spiral galaxies with a flat ecliptic plane see the big unwind: www.flight-light-and-spin.com/big-unwind.htm
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 11, 2020 16:52:04 GMT
you seem to have an assumptive stumbling block yes, all ideas start with assumptions, but some assumptions end up in contradiction whereas others result in no contradictions when there is only one model that has no contradictions then that is most likely founded on correct assumptions and has to be taken as the best theory even if better theories may eventually arise - until they do, thats the working model - at least in a logical institution it should work that way so much for epistemology, but more to the point of the ontology of the matter: if the singularity disintegrated due to an explosive force then all orbits would be at various angles and directions, as well as a variety of eccentricities (not so circular) and there would be no logical reason for an ecliptic plane for galaxies nor solar systems only if the singularity splits due to ongoing spin will the orbits come apart neatly into the binary pairs required for spiral galaxies with a flat ecliptic plane see the big unwind: www.flight-light-and-spin.com/big-unwind.htmAll appears from a single source, thus single source as universal is the point considering all phenomenon are both composed of and compose points.
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 11, 2020 16:52:38 GMT
assuming that there was a beginning that is All things which exist through time have beginnings and ends as that is a relation of parts and time is the relation of one part to another as the movement of one thing relative to a fixed phenomenon.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 11, 2020 19:49:36 GMT
assuming that there was a beginning that is All things which exist through time have beginnings and ends as that is a relation of parts and time is the relation of one part to another as the movement of one thing relative to a fixed phenomenon. Time is a concept not a fundamental reality Change is the phenomenon oftentimes confused or paired up with this concept call "time" which is just a mental construct that we have developed as a way of understanding why we observe change and experience at ourselves. And yes things like people four houses or any berries natural or man-made thing has a beginning and an end but I'm not talking about the things made from matter because obviously he does have a beginning but the material it's made from supposedly science says has a beginning as well IE the Big Bang however there is the other option that everything has always been here and there was no big Bang. Remember it's a hypothesis not a fact and the only thing observable is that everything has always been here and when you look back in time is all you find is stuff obviously you can't find not stuff.
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 14, 2020 3:57:36 GMT
All things which exist through time have beginnings and ends as that is a relation of parts and time is the relation of one part to another as the movement of one thing relative to a fixed phenomenon. Time is a concept not a fundamental reality Change is the phenomenon oftentimes confused or paired up with this concept call "time" which is just a mental construct that we have developed as a way of understanding why we observe change and experience at ourselves. And yes things like people four houses or any berries natural or man-made thing has a beginning and an end but I'm not talking about the things made from matter because obviously he does have a beginning but the material it's made from supposedly science says has a beginning as well IE the Big Bang however there is the other option that everything has always been here and there was no big Bang. Remember it's a hypothesis not a fact and the only thing observable is that everything has always been here and when you look back in time is all you find is stuff obviously you can't find not stuff. All things are reducible to concepts. Time, while a concept, is a fundamental reality as well given it observes the change of one phenomenon to another. Change is the inversion of one phenomenon into another. It is the entropy or negentropy of one phenomenon which results in another. A constant is the observation of one phenomenon result into an entirely new phenomenon. The Big Bang is the continual creation and destruction of phenomenon from a single point. All phenomenon result from a movement to and from a point or set of points. In these respects phenomenon follow a continual ebb and flow as expansion and contraction. An organism results from the point of contact from an egg and sperm and it reduces to a series of atoms as point particles. There is no proof everything has always been here given the evidence shows everything has a beginning and end.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 14, 2020 23:06:16 GMT
>>>All things are reducible to concepts. Time, while a concept, is a fundamental reality as well given it observes the change of one phenomenon to another.<<<
no people observe the change of one phenomenon to another time is just time it doesn't observe anything.
>>>The Big Bang is the continual creation and destruction of phenomenon from a single point. <<<
technically it's a theory that scientist came up with for an answer so they wouldn't lose their tenure and all funding needed to continue their plush lives and this theory was fabricated based off of light spectrums and mathematical equations with a dash here and there of justification.
>>> All phenomenon result from a movement to and from a point or set of points. <<< which one is it a point or a set of points? Because those are two different things.
>>>In these respects phenomenon follow a continual ebb and flow as expansion and contraction. An organism results from the point of contact from an egg and sperm and it reduces to a series of atoms as point particles. <<<
as I previously had already said I was not talking about the short-term temporal things such as a person's life when it starts and ends I was talking about matter itself and how it has always been and didn't have a start point.
>>>There is no proof everything has always been here given the evidence shows everything has a beginning and end.<<< no things made of matter seemed to have beginnings and ends as they continually change but the matter that they're made out of and the environment they are in has always been and that is observable what is not observable is the atomistic concept of a big boom boom happening and everything suddenly existing that's not observable
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 14, 2020 23:20:56 GMT
>>>All things are reducible to concepts. Time, while a concept, is a fundamental reality as well given it observes the change of one phenomenon to another.<<< no people observe the change of one phenomenon to another time is just time it doesn't observe anything. >>>The Big Bang is the continual creation and destruction of phenomenon from a single point. <<< technically it's a theory that scientist came up with for an answer so they wouldn't lose their tenure and all funding needed to continue their plush lives and this theory was fabricated based off of light spectrums and mathematical equations with a dash here and there of justification. >>> All phenomenon result from a movement to and from a point or set of points. <<< which one is it a point or a set of points? Because those are two different things. >>>In these respects phenomenon follow a continual ebb and flow as expansion and contraction. An organism results from the point of contact from an egg and sperm and it reduces to a series of atoms as point particles. <<< as I previously had already said I was not talking about the short-term temporal things such as a person's life when it starts and ends I was talking about matter itself and how it has always been and didn't have a start point. >>>There is no proof everything has always been here given the evidence shows everything has a beginning and end.<<< no things made of matter seemed to have beginnings and ends as they continually change but the matter that they're made out of and the environment they are in has always been and that is observable what is not observable is the atomistic concept of a big boom boom happening and everything suddenly existing that's not observable 1. We observe through time as observations change. 2. And what is your source as to the reason behind the origin of the Big Bang theory? 3. The bird from a distance exists as a point, up close it is composed of points. 4. Prove matter has always been given all phenomenon in reality have beginning and end points. 5. Prove the totality of matter has existed always.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 15, 2020 5:13:01 GMT
>>>We observe through time as observations change. <<<
Correct that's why i said time is a concept made by man.
>>>2. And what is your source as to the reason behind the origin of the Big Bang theory?<<<
not important to the conversation at hand
>>>3. The bird from a distance exists as a point, up close it is composed of points.<<<
no the bird at a distance is hard to see and up close you can see it in great detail.
>>>4. Prove matter has always been given all phenomenon in reality have beginning and end points.<<<
once again phenomenon has beginnings and ends as it's nature however that is not the same as matter itself I am talking about this galaxy this planet and the ability for stuffed we made out of stuff I'm not talking about the things that that stuff does
This is a lot like the Christian vs atheist argument when Christians say prove God doesn't exist and the atheist say I can't prove the lack of something but you have to prove that he does exist because you're the one making the claim
likewise I cannot prove something didn't at one point not exist and i am not the one making the claim you are so you would have to prove that existence had a beginning.
>>>5. Prove the totality of matter has existed always<<<
See reply to #4
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 15, 2020 17:53:05 GMT
>>>We observe through time as observations change. <<< Correct that's why i said time is a concept made by man. >>>2. And what is your source as to the reason behind the origin of the Big Bang theory?<<< not important to the conversation at hand >>>3. The bird from a distance exists as a point, up close it is composed of points.<<< no the bird at a distance is hard to see and up close you can see it in great detail. >>>4. Prove matter has always been given all phenomenon in reality have beginning and end points.<<< once again phenomenon has beginnings and ends as it's nature however that is not the same as matter itself I am talking about this galaxy this planet and the ability for stuffed we made out of stuff I'm not talking about the things that that stuff does This is a lot like the Christian vs atheist argument when Christians say prove God doesn't exist and the atheist say I can't prove the lack of something but you have to prove that he does exist because you're the one making the claim likewise I cannot prove something didn't at one point not exist and i am not the one making the claim you are so you would have to prove that existence had a beginning. >>>5. Prove the totality of matter has existed always<<< See reply to #4 1. Time is a process of change, we observe time empirically as change. All concepts reflect a physical reality. 2. Yet you claim an ad hominum attacking the person behind the idea. 3. From a distance it appears as a point, up close each part upon closer inspection is composed of points. 4. Not the same comparison, as I am asking for the proof of something always existing. I am not asking for a negative to be proved. The burden is on you. 5. All phenomenon, as empirically observed, have beginnings and ends. Matter must follow the same rules.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 16, 2020 3:07:33 GMT
>>>1. Time is a process of change, we observe time empirically as change. All concepts reflect a physical reality.<<<
No time is a numerical process of counting this is why clocks have numbers and count them instead of constantly documenting things changing.
>>>2. Yet you claim an ad hominum attacking the person behind the idea.<<<
Can you point out exactly what i said that tou feel was an attack on you personally?
>>>3. From a distance it appears as a point, up close each part upon closer inspection is composed of points.<<<
No not unless you live in a world made of grass burrs.
>>>4. Not the same comparison, as I am asking for the proof of something always existing. I am not asking for a negative to be proved. The burden is on you.<<<
You are asking a nonsensical thing because what is and has always been is existence and that's a fact not a claim And so saying that it at one time didn't exist is a claim requiring proof.
>>>5. All phenomenon, as empirically observed, have beginnings and ends. Matter must follow the same rules.<<< again phenomenon wherein things change is not the same thing as existence itself .
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 16, 2020 16:52:49 GMT
>>>1. Time is a process of change, we observe time empirically as change. All concepts reflect a physical reality.<<< No time is a numerical process of counting this is why clocks have numbers and count them instead of constantly documenting things changing. >>>2. Yet you claim an ad hominum attacking the person behind the idea.<<< Can you point out exactly what i said that tou feel was an attack on you personally? >>>3. From a distance it appears as a point, up close each part upon closer inspection is composed of points.<<< No not unless you live in a world made of grass burrs. >>>4. Not the same comparison, as I am asking for the proof of something always existing. I am not asking for a negative to be proved. The burden is on you.<<< You are asking a nonsensical thing because what is and has always been is existence and that's a fact not a claim And so saying that it at one time didn't exist is a claim requiring proof. >>>5. All phenomenon, as empirically observed, have beginnings and ends. Matter must follow the same rules.<<< again phenomenon wherein things change is not the same thing as existence itself . 1. Counting is the ratio of one phenomenon fitting inside another. The minute is defined by the seconds which fit in it. The dropping of sand, in a sand clock, is defined by the amount of sand in the resovior relative to another resovior. Time is ratios, ratios are the fitting of one part into another. 2. Attacking the person which developed the idea, not me. 3. Any object from a distance appears as a point. Any Object Up Close Is Composed Of Point Particles. 4. I am talking about matter, not existence. 5. Existence occurs through change. Pure change, during an instantaneous singular appears as no change. What does not change is the singularity.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 16, 2020 20:14:08 GMT
>>>1. Counting is the ratio of one phenomenon fitting inside another. The minute is defined by the seconds which fit in it. The dropping of sand, in a sand clock, is defined by the amount of sand in the resovior relative to another resovior. Time is ratios, ratios are the fitting of one part into another.<<<
That is a perspective created by the person
But i am not talking about how a person perceives time im talking about what time is.
>>>2. Attacking the person which developed the idea, not me.<<<
I didn't ask for the definition of ad hominem i asked for you to tell me which comment I made that you specifically feel was an ad hominem.
>>>3. Any object from a distance appears as a point. Any Object Up Close Is Composed Of Point Particles.<<<
This is far to trivial to wast time on and i see no point it a dressing because i think it is just an issue of preferred style of explaining things and that's to be expected do to cultural differences.
>>>4. I am talking about matter, not existence.<<<
In that case I agree with you matter does change and depending on where person draws the line you can say that Apple didn't exist now it exists and its own to not exist
I was talking about existence and there is a difference between the 2 obviously.
>>>5. Existence occurs through change. Pure change, during an instantaneous singular appears as no change. What does not change is the singularity <<<
I wouldn't necessarily say that although it would be hard to find something that's not changing that in existence to use as an example
but just because the majority of things change and exist doesn't necessarily mean something can't exist without change
But I haven't the slightest clue how to demonstrate that
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Dec 17, 2020 3:53:14 GMT
>>>1. Counting is the ratio of one phenomenon fitting inside another. The minute is defined by the seconds which fit in it. The dropping of sand, in a sand clock, is defined by the amount of sand in the resovior relative to another resovior. Time is ratios, ratios are the fitting of one part into another.<<< That is a perspective created by the person But i am not talking about how a person perceives time im talking about what time is. >>>2. Attacking the person which developed the idea, not me.<<< I didn't ask for the definition of ad hominem i asked for you to tell me which comment I made that you specifically feel was an ad hominem. >>>3. Any object from a distance appears as a point. Any Object Up Close Is Composed Of Point Particles.<<< This is far to trivial to wast time on and i see no point it a dressing because i think it is just an issue of preferred style of explaining things and that's to be expected do to cultural differences. >>>4. I am talking about matter, not existence.<<< In that case I agree with you matter does change and depending on where person draws the line you can say that Apple didn't exist now it exists and its own to not exist I was talking about existence and there is a difference between the 2 obviously. >>>5. Existence occurs through change. Pure change, during an instantaneous singular appears as no change. What does not change is the singularity <<< I wouldn't necessarily say that although it would be hard to find something that's not changing that in existence to use as an example but just because the majority of things change and exist doesn't necessarily mean something can't exist without change But I haven't the slightest clue how to demonstrate that 1. Time is ratios. It is the fitting of one phenomenon's movements inside another. 2. The comment about the person: "scientist came up with for an answer so they wouldn't lose their tenure and all funding needed to continue their plush lives" 3. No, an object at a distance appears as a dot. Up close, upon closer inspection, it is composed of point particles. 4. No comment. 5. A single point as being composed of and composing further points shows the point changing into itself ad infinitum thus is always the same.
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