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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 24, 2017 20:46:50 GMT
If freedom is simply being able to do what you want, are animals freer than humans?
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Post by AmericanCharm on Nov 24, 2017 22:22:21 GMT
Go to school, drive your car, go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me “I am free”
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Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 24, 2017 23:06:11 GMT
Yes! Animals are freer than humans! But they don't understand what world they live in and can't resist when people limit them. In addition they live with their instincts! I think I wrote a simple true ))
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 24, 2017 23:27:58 GMT
I think it is about the same. Animals are technically under our rules. We can use them for circus, as pets, hunt them, or eat them. I don't think they have much say if we dress them up and put them in a circus or who owns them as a pet. They don't choose and especialy when animals are hunted or eaten. Humans too can be hunted by wild animals and when that happens we are basically their pet and might get eaten.
Animals can do whatever they want unless we step in and we can do whatever we want until the law steps in.
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Manitas
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Post by Manitas on Nov 27, 2017 3:47:44 GMT
Perhaps they are about the same. Animals rely on instincts and follow their pack or herd, not relying on volition.
On that same note, volition could be an illusion. Almost every decision that we make has been influenced by someone else. Everything breathing on Earth is following its herd one way or another.
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Post by flaviusv on Jan 1, 2018 14:02:50 GMT
From my views, Freedom is a Human-made concept, explained as follows: A human value portraying the meaning of "Being able to do as one desires, yet without harming anybody else."; for me there are two kinds of "do-as-you-wish" words to explain this. First there is "to be free" and then there is "to be wild", that is the difference between Human Beings and other Animals: As Humans are the only ones capable of using reason and therefore possess the skill of "choice", they can choose(in most of the cases) how to act and not to be detrimental for other individuals. With that said, I think (As only human beings are capable of portraying the value of "Responsibility"[which is bound to the value of "Freedom"]), other Animals are bound to instinct and (by now, as far as I understand) they do not have use of reason. Hence, to conclude, Human Beings can be Free whereas other Animals can only be Wild.
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Post by Polaris on Jan 3, 2018 14:48:13 GMT
If freedom is simply being able to do what you want, are animals freer than humans? this definition of freedom is incomplete. you do what you want without trespassing or encroaching or offending others.
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Supermentalita
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Post by Supermentalita on Jan 3, 2018 14:57:06 GMT
Go to school, drive your car, go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me “I am free” Me and you are one of the 6 billion and we have to accept this
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Post by Polaris on Jan 3, 2018 15:03:09 GMT
From my views, Freedom is a Human-made concept, explained as follows: A human value portraying the meaning of "Being able to do as one desires, yet without harming anybody else."; for me there are two kinds of "do-as-you-wish" words to explain this. First there is "to be free" and then there is "to be wild", that is the difference between Human Beings and other Animals: As Humans are the only ones capable of using reason and therefore possess the skill of "choice", they can choose(in most of the cases) how to act and not to be detrimental for other individuals. With that said, I think (As only human beings are capable of portraying the value of "Responsibility"[which is bound to the value of "Freedom"]), other Animals are bound to instinct and (by now, as far as I understand) they do not have use of reason. Hence, to conclude, Human Beings can be Free whereas other Animals can only be Wild. Freedom is a big illusion. it doesn't exist though we claim it. Humans have lost freedom since the early old stone age when the then wild man who was as free as a bird compromised his freedom for community life. Even coordinating part of your life with other individuals usually causes you to bend your free will and submit to what they dictate upon you. this is true in the relations between lovers, brothers, husband a wife, child and a parent etc.
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mdk
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Post by mdk on Jan 4, 2018 14:15:13 GMT
If freedom is simply being able to do what you want, are animals freer than humans? Do you assume that animals have free will? Otherwise, the question is moot.
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Post by thearistotelliancopt on Jan 4, 2018 20:41:16 GMT
I think animals have no freedoms because they're ruled by their desires and instinct. Neither are men who lead hedonistic lifestyles free. I think being free means being able to transcend carnal desires instead of being slaves to them. Freedom, to me, has to do with becoming like God. When you most reflect the image God, in the ways that are appropriate for human beings, it is then that we are truly free. So being free is not doing whatever you want becahse then you are a slave to your wants/desires. Being free is to transcend desire and do what is right.
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dalibor
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Post by dalibor on Jan 5, 2018 3:46:13 GMT
thearistotelliancopt : Very much in the spirit of stoics. Hard to dispute. Aristotle actually made a hierarchy of living beings on the basis of how free they are. He put humans on the highest place. Interestingly, on the second place below humans he put wild cats and elephants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 21:23:13 GMT
Animals are more free than man in not doing/causing harm to each other.
Animals can love; People cannot. People are cruel... but some people (including I've met on this forum) are not cruel are kind and good!
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Post by thearistotelliancopt on Jan 12, 2018 14:22:04 GMT
thearistotelliancopt : Very much in the spirit of stoics. Hard to dispute. Aristotle actually made a hierarchy of living beings on the basis of how free they are. He put humans on the highest place. Interestingly, on the second place below humans he put wild cats and elephants. agreed. I've recently become quote interested in stoicism.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Oct 3, 2020 15:29:07 GMT
I can repeat myself that many people are still cruel. The inhabitants of this forum, and some other people, are ok, but there are lotta people who are not good.
I wonder how do many inhabitants of this forum do? Gosh... There was an awesome time!
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