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Post by greatestiam on Jul 26, 2020 19:31:19 GMT
Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Christians seem to think that Jesus took the punishment for sinners with his sacrifice/suicide on the cross. IOW, Christians see Jesus as asking Christians to abdicate their responsibility for their own sins and punishments.
If humans asked that, it would be considered quite immoral and unjust. All courts try hard to punish the guilty and not the innocent.
These quotes are what I think Jesus would have taught on this issue, him being a Jewish Rabbi.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments, yet Christians are doing just that in trying to use Jesus as their scapegoat.
Regards
DL
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 31, 2020 18:31:11 GMT
Since there are many verses we'll stick to New Testament only since you mentioned Jesus and He's all over new Testament.
So, Jesus delivers the just and punishes the unjust.
2 Peter 2:9
Then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment.
So on the day of jundgemnt the guilty people will go to hell for punishment and the innocent will be spared. That's a good ending.
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Post by greatestiam on Aug 9, 2020 23:07:30 GMT
Since there are many verses we'll stick to New Testament only since you mentioned Jesus and He's all over new Testament. So, Jesus delivers the just and punishes the unjust. 2 Peter 2:9 Then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment. So on the day of jundgemnt the guilty people will go to hell for punishment and the innocent will be spared. That's a good ending. Only to immoral thinkers. What should a god do? Kill or cure? You want him to kill even though, Jesus who you seem to respect, said he was here to cure and not kill. Christianity has corrupted your morals as well as your heart. Regards DL |
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 9, 2020 23:52:03 GMT
Since there are many verses we'll stick to New Testament only since you mentioned Jesus and He's all over new Testament. So, Jesus delivers the just and punishes the unjust. 2 Peter 2:9 Then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment. So on the day of jundgemnt the guilty people will go to hell for punishment and the innocent will be spared. That's a good ending. Only to immoral thinkers. What should a god do? Kill or cure? You want him to kill even though, Jesus who you seem to respect, said he was here to cure and not kill. Christianity has corrupted your morals as well as your heart. Regards DL I'm sorry but there's no point in explaining that God has never killed anyone to no existence to you a million times over. He even says so Himself in the bible that people either go to heaven or hell for enternity not into no existence. I can't help you any further with reading or comprehension. This misunderstanding you have is not for me to cure. Regards, Done. |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Aug 10, 2020 9:54:12 GMT
No, it's not like that. Jesus took since not to advocate for sinners to mercy them evil. No, Jesus wanted to show how weak and fool were to rely upon those "magical spells" or sorta thinking of some. He showed that it was meaningless and fool to ignore such feelings as love and compassion to comrades and neighbors not ordering them to teach idiotic curses and ceremonies of some blasphemy gods.
He showed the heroic, notable, great, and brilliant example of how do we need to do. We must learn peace, not war understanding. That's why curses and sprlls appear so lousy and pathetic for sane people today.
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Post by greatestiam on Aug 10, 2020 13:26:48 GMT
No, it's not like that. Jesus took since not to advocate for sinners to mercy them evil. No, Jesus wanted to show how weak and fool were to rely upon those "magical spells" or sorta thinking of some. He showed that it was meaningless and fool to ignore such feelings as love and compassion to comrades and neighbors not ordering them to teach idiotic curses and ceremonies of some blasphemy gods. He showed the heroic, notable, great, and brilliant example of how do we need to do. We must learn peace, not war understanding. That's why curses and sprlls appear so lousy and pathetic for sane people today. A tough read but I think I agree that Jesus wanted us to not read scriptures literally. You are right that we must do the learning and that religions are not helpful. Regards DL |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Aug 10, 2020 21:35:33 GMT
No, it's not like that. Jesus took since not to advocate for sinners to mercy them evil. No, Jesus wanted to show how weak and fool were to rely upon those "magical spells" or sorta thinking of some. He showed that it was meaningless and fool to ignore such feelings as love and compassion to comrades and neighbors not ordering them to teach idiotic curses and ceremonies of some blasphemy gods. He showed the heroic, notable, great, and brilliant example of how do we need to do. We must learn peace, not war understanding. That's why curses and sprlls appear so lousy and pathetic for sane people today. A tough read but I think I agree that Jesus wanted us to not read scriptures literally. You are right that we must do the learning and that religions are not helpful. Regards DL Exactly!  Sorry for involving in such reading - the reading of the mess. Maybe one point requires to be corrected is the help of religions. I don't think we're not able to get any help of it. Regards E |
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Post by zackbeni on Aug 23, 2020 8:09:38 GMT
Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Not so! If Jesus was God-sent as it is claimed, he cannot help but promote justice. Justice being expressed in the perfect dictum“ Man reaps as he has sown”. Thus, No man shall take the sin of another, nor shall any make atonement for his brother's trespass; but every one shall bear his own sin, and be purified by his own chastisement.
The mainstream Christians with their doctrine of vicarious atonement—The supposition that justice can be justified by the punishment of the innocent for the guilty—have nothing in common with Christ and God and this doctrine is utterly ungodly. They ignorantly claim that Jesus came to replace the animal sacrifices supposedly demanded by God to propitiate him and cleanse their sins, and thus provide a once and for all sacrifice. But a closer examination will show that God never demanded the Israelites of such a heinous thing and hence eradicating the grounds or basis of their unholy claim.
"Jeremiah 7: 22. For I spoke not to your fathers, and I commanded them not, in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning the matter of burnt offerings and sacrifices. 23. But this thing I commanded them, saying: Hearken to my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people: and walk ye in all the way that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you 24. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear: but walked in their own will, and in the perversity of their wicked  and went backward and not forward," "Isaiah 1: 11. To what purpose do you offer me the multitude of your victims, saith the Lord? I am full, I desire not holocausts of rams, and fat of fatlings, and blood of calves, and lambs, and buck goats 12. When you came to appear before me, who required these things at your hands, that you should walk in my courts? 13. Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, and the sabbaths, and other festivals I will not abide, your assemblies are wicked. "
Their doctrine is also blasphemous in that it pushes the idea of a blood-thirsty deity. But God and His prophets have repeatedly stressed that He is Spirit and therefore His sacrifices must be Spirit. What Folly, what Ignorance, to offer material Flesh and Drink to pure Power and essential Being!
In addition, many saints of old, bright and intelligent minds have invariably found the idea of vicarious atonement and blood sacrifices repulsive to them and they have emphatically abhorred it. This in itself is an indication that such an unholy doctrine can only impress ignorant and superstitious minds. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 23, 2020 8:36:46 GMT
Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Not so! If Jesus was God-sent as it is claimed, he cannot help but promote justice. Justice being expressed in the perfect dictum“ Man reaps as he has sown”. Thus, No man shall take the sin of another, nor shall any make atonement for his brother's trespass; but every one shall bear his own sin, and be purified by his own chastisement.
The mainstream Christians with their doctrine of vicarious atonement—The supposition that justice can be justified by the punishment of the innocent for the guilty—have nothing in common with Christ and God and this doctrine is utterly ungodly. They ignorantly claim that Jesus came to replace the animal sacrifices supposedly demanded by God to propitiate him and cleanse their sins, and thus provide a once and for all sacrifice. But a closer examination will show that God never demanded the Israelites of such a heinous thing and hence eradicating the grounds or basis of their unholy claim.
"Jeremiah 7: 22. For I spoke not to your fathers, and I commanded them not, in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning the matter of burnt offerings and sacrifices. 23. But this thing I commanded them, saying: Hearken to my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people: and walk ye in all the way that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you 24. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear: but walked in their own will, and in the perversity of their wicked and went backward and not forward," "Isaiah 1: 11. To what purpose do you offer me the multitude of your victims, saith the Lord? I am full, I desire not holocausts of rams, and fat of fatlings, and blood of calves, and lambs, and buck goats 12. When you came to appear before me, who required these things at your hands, that you should walk in my courts? 13. Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, and the sabbaths, and other festivals I will not abide, your assemblies are wicked. "
Their doctrine is also blasphemous in that it pushes the idea of a blood-thirsty deity. But God and His prophets have repeatedly stressed that He is Spirit and therefore His sacrifices must be Spirit. What Folly, what Ignorance, to offer material Flesh and Drink to pure Power and essential Being!
In addition, many saints of old, bright and intelligent minds have invariably found the idea of vicarious atonement and blood sacrifices repulsive to them and they have emphatically abhorred it. This in itself is an indication that such an unholy doctrine can only impress ignorant and superstitious minds. Are you an old Testament follower? For some reason your reply reminds me of fschmidt, who is another member here but only follows old Testament |
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Post by zackbeni on Aug 30, 2020 19:51:34 GMT
Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Not so! If Jesus was God-sent as it is claimed, he cannot help but promote justice. Justice being expressed in the perfect dictum“ Man reaps as he has sown”. Thus, No man shall take the sin of another, nor shall any make atonement for his brother's trespass; but every one shall bear his own sin, and be purified by his own chastisement.
The mainstream Christians with their doctrine of vicarious atonement—The supposition that justice can be justified by the punishment of the innocent for the guilty—have nothing in common with Christ and God and this doctrine is utterly ungodly. They ignorantly claim that Jesus came to replace the animal sacrifices supposedly demanded by God to propitiate him and cleanse their sins, and thus provide a once and for all sacrifice. But a closer examination will show that God never demanded the Israelites of such a heinous thing and hence eradicating the grounds or basis of their unholy claim.
"Jeremiah 7: 22. For I spoke not to your fathers, and I commanded them not, in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning the matter of burnt offerings and sacrifices. 23. But this thing I commanded them, saying: Hearken to my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people: and walk ye in all the way that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you 24. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear: but walked in their own will, and in the perversity of their wicked and went backward and not forward," "Isaiah 1: 11. To what purpose do you offer me the multitude of your victims, saith the Lord? I am full, I desire not holocausts of rams, and fat of fatlings, and blood of calves, and lambs, and buck goats 12. When you came to appear before me, who required these things at your hands, that you should walk in my courts? 13. Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, and the sabbaths, and other festivals I will not abide, your assemblies are wicked. "
Their doctrine is also blasphemous in that it pushes the idea of a blood-thirsty deity. But God and His prophets have repeatedly stressed that He is Spirit and therefore His sacrifices must be Spirit. What Folly, what Ignorance, to offer material Flesh and Drink to pure Power and essential Being!
In addition, many saints of old, bright and intelligent minds have invariably found the idea of vicarious atonement and blood sacrifices repulsive to them and they have emphatically abhorred it. This in itself is an indication that such an unholy doctrine can only impress ignorant and superstitious minds. Are you an old Testament follower? For some reason your reply reminds me of fschmidt, who is another member here but only follows old Testament No, that would not at all be a good description of my standpoint. Per my knowledge, the Whole Bible contains what would be likened to "Gold" and "Chaff". The Gold in the Bible, hidden in mystical symbols and allegories, is that which interests and is relevant to my Soul since it is divinely inspired and is addressed to the Soul of Man. Thus if you want to consider me as a follower of something in the Bible, call me a follower of that Gold. |
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Post by greatestiam on Sept 3, 2020 15:18:26 GMT
zackbeni
Do you see a lot of gold in a genocidal god or his homophobic and misogynous religion?
I see more evil than good in such fascist religions. You?
Regards
DL
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Post by IM LITERALLY NEO on Sept 3, 2020 20:13:49 GMT
Do you see a lot of gold in a genocidal god or his homophobic and misogynous religion? I see more evil than good in such fascist religions. You? Regards DL
All Of Your Terms Are You Parroting The Fallacies Of "Atheism" And Idiots Like "Richard Dawkins", These Aren't Even Your Own Thoughts.
GOD's Hatred For Those That Twist Their Genders Is Precisely Because That Is NOT How It Works, By Design, It Is The "Pride" Before The "Fall".
There Is No "Misogyny" When You Understand The PARABLE, Stop Taking It So Literal, That's Your Problem.
If You Know PARABLE, You Will Know That Jesus Regards Mary Magdalene More Important Than All The Women On Earth, All Of His Brethren And Even His Disciples!   |
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Post by greatestiam on Sept 18, 2020 21:17:54 GMT
Stop billboarding me and we might chat.
Make up your mind as to if you wish to use logos or mythos.
You are a liar when you say anything about an imaginary god.
If you want to hide behind your genocidal prick, produce the proof of him, or start using your intelligence with logos instead of supernatural stupid thinking.
Regards
DL
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and went backward and not forward,"
