Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 6, 2019 21:50:56 GMT
Not sure if this is the correct place for this topic on history of conservative thinking. I have little formal education, so it is all books and a little thinking.
I am now wading through that masterpiece by the non-ideolog Russell Kirk which has the same title as this thread. But I would hope we would also consider non-Occidental conservative thinkers too.
So here are a couple of Kirk's six canons of conservative thought:
(1) Belief in a transcendent order, or body of natural law, which rules society as well as conscience.
Political problems, at bottom, are religious and moral problems. A narrow rationality, what Coleridge
called the Understanding, cannot of itself satisfy human needs. "Every Tory is a realist,'' says Keith
Feiling: "he knows that there are great forces in heaven and earth that man's philosophy cannot plumb or
fathom. " True politics is the art of apprehending and applying the justice which ought to prevail in a
community of souls.
(2) Affection for the proliferating variety and mystery of human existence, as opposed to the
narrowing uniformity, egalitarianism, and utilitarian aims of most radical systems; conservatives resist
what Robert Graves calls "Logicalism" in society. This prejudice has been called "the conservatism of
enjoyment"- a sense that life is worth living, according to Walter Bagehot "the proper source of an
animated Conservatism."
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 6, 2019 22:01:10 GMT
Now the final four:
(3) Conviction that civilized society requires orders and classes, as against the notion of a "classless society." With reason, conservatives often have been called "the party of order." If natural distinctions are effaced among men, oligarchs fill the vacuum. Ultimate equality in the judgment of God, and equality before courts of law, are recognized by conservatives; but equality of condition, they think, means equality in servitude and boredom.
(4) Persuasion that freedom and property are closely linked: separate property from private possession, and Leviathan becomes master of all. Economic levelling, they maintain, is not economic progress.
(5) Faith in prescription and distrust of "sophisters, calculators, and economists" who would reconstruct society upon abstract designs. Custom, convention, and old prescription are checks both upon man's anarchic impulse and upon the innovator's lust for power.
(6) Recognition that change may not be salutary reform: hasty innovation may be a devouring conflagration, rather than a torch of progress. Society must alter, for prudent change is the means of social preservation; but a statesman must take Providence into his calculations, and a statesman's chief virtue, according to Plato and Burke, is prudence.
Excerpt From: Russell Kirk. The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot.
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Post by fschmidt on Jan 6, 2019 23:34:54 GMT
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 7, 2019 18:59:42 GMT
Here is a quote from Kirk, who then quotes Santayana:
The shell of
Christendom has been broken, and a new spirit, that of emancipated, atheistic, international democracy,
is dragging us toward an industrial socialistic future. Liberalism, once professing to advocate liberty,
now is a movement for control over property, trade, work, amusements, education, and religion; only the
marriage bond is relaxed by modern liberals.
"The philanthropists are now preparing an absolute subjection of the individual, in soul and body, to the instincts of the majority - the most cruel and
unprogressive of masters; and I am not sure that the liberal maxim, `the greatest happiness of the greatest
number,' has not lost whatever was just or generous in its intent and come to mean the greatest idleness
of the largest possible population."
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Post by fschmidt on Jan 7, 2019 19:47:37 GMT
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 9, 2019 18:29:06 GMT
Conservative minds differ in many regards, but that makes for richer value when studying them. Exponents of ideologies all sound pretty much the same. Here is an excellent site which provides a treasury of conservative thinking: Imaginative Conservative |
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Post by fschmidt on Jan 9, 2019 19:21:10 GMT
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 9, 2019 20:16:31 GMT
There is no more hope of reviving Western Civilization than there is of reviving the Roman Empire. Western Civilization is dead. There is nothing left for conservatives to conserve. It is time to start working on the next civilization. Fiddlesticks! Points taken on death of Western Civ. though. Yet, as long as minds ponder on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy & think about such things" - not as a bible quote, but as eternal values that can be lived and shared - such ideas & ethics will form a good civilization. Besides, getting one's mind right, as an individual, is our first concern, not remaking humanity, Western or Eastern. |
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Post by fschmidt on Jan 10, 2019 17:28:37 GMT
Yet, as long as minds ponder on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy & think about such things" - not as a bible quote, but as eternal values that can be lived and shared - such ideas & ethics will form a good civilization. Besides, getting one's mind right, as an individual, is our first concern, not remaking humanity, Western or Eastern. Humans are not individuals. We are herd animals who live in tribes. So the first concern is neither the individual nor humanity. It is the tribe. Modern culture is basically one giant cancerous tribe. What is needed are sane alternative tribes. The average person is incapable of pondering anything deeper than "what's for dinner". He should simply told what to do. This is the job of religion. What conservatives should be doing right now is figuring out how to organize conservative tribes based on conservative religions. Complaining about the West is pointless. Modern culture is hopeless and its population simply deserves extermination. |
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 10, 2019 18:45:13 GMT
Yet, as long as minds ponder on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy & think about such things" - not as a bible quote, but as eternal values that can be lived and shared - such ideas & ethics will form a good civilization. Besides, getting one's mind right, as an individual, is our first concern, not remaking humanity, Western or Eastern. Humans are not individuals. We are herd animals who live in tribes. So say you. If an individual thinks he is only a tribal animal, he will live thusly. If an individual is inspired (never mind the source) to think he has a godly nature that will manifest more if he disciplines the animal part, then salvation from any tribe is possible. |
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Post by fschmidt on Jan 11, 2019 1:48:35 GMT
If an individual is inspired (never mind the source) to think he has a godly nature that will manifest more if he disciplines the animal part, then salvation from any tribe is possible. What does "salvation" mean? |
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 11, 2019 2:33:09 GMT
If an individual is inspired (never mind the source) to think he has a godly nature that will manifest more if he disciplines the animal part, then salvation from any tribe is possible. What does "salvation" mean? Being saved from the control of the tribe's group-think. |
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Post by fschmidt on Jan 11, 2019 2:45:59 GMT
What does "salvation" mean? Being saved from the control of the tribe's group-think. That doesn't fit with your earlier statement. After all, a person who follows his animal instincts doesn't conform to any group-think. Also, what does "control" mean? If someone willingly submits, is he being controlled? |
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 11, 2019 3:00:00 GMT
Being saved from the control of the tribe's group-think. That doesn't fit with your earlier statement. After all, a person who follows his animal instincts doesn't conform to any group-think. Also, what does "control" mean? If someone willingly submits, is he being controlled? Humans with animal instincts lack individuality, they care about parties, sensual pleasures etc. There is usually some sort of leadership which does the thinking, so called. Shall we barbecue chicken or pork, what music shall we dance to etcetera? If he never mentally questions or utters a different view of smallest tribal want or duty, then he is controlled. |
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 2, 2019 22:42:53 GMT
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