Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP 
Elder
Posts: 2,697 
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 12, 2018 3:06:42 GMT
I've noticed that often people follow certain religions for very stupid reasons. For example what always makes me laugh is Germanic pagans or "Asatru" followers. If you ask them why they follow their religion they'll say its because their ancestors worshiped these gods and they are honoring their ancestors. Or there will be someone who follows Buddhism because they are a hipster who thinks Christianity is too mainstream and "Eastern philosophy is where its at." I've heard many stupid reasons for choosing a religion like off the top of my head, "It gives me spiritual fulfillment" or, "I'm honoring my ancestors" or "I love the philosophy of the religion" or, "the moral code of the religion gives me self discipline."
To the Norse pagan who's honoring his ancestor I say ODIN DOESN'T EXIST! The Norse gods are not real and your ancestors were worshiping nothing. To every one else I say if you don't actually believe that the religion you follow is true then why do you waste your time and why do you insult the supposed religion you're following? There is only one valid reason for becoming a part of a religion and that is because you believe the religion is true.
I follow Christianity because I believe that the old and new testaments of the Bible are accurate accounts of human history, that there is one God, the God of the Bible, that Jesus is his son, and that the death, resurrection, and ascendancy of Jesus into heaven is true and that Jesus will come again in Armageddon. If you don't actually believe your religion is true than why are you wasting your time following it? You're basically LARPing (live action roleplaying) and that is very disrespectful to the religion itself which makes claims of truth. The only valid reason to follow a religion is because you believe it to be true otherwise you are being stupid.
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Post by fschmidt on Jul 12, 2018 5:44:14 GMT
Your post is a product of the fact that Christianity inherited its concept of truth from Plato and not from the Old Testament. Plato believed in the corresponce theory of truth. The Old Testament does not. The Hebrew word translated has "truth" is "emet" which actually has a different meaning. It means a belief that can be counted on to meet expectations. The Old Testament has no concept of faith. Instead it recognizes that we simply must choose those axioms of belief that work best, and it argues that belief in God is the belief system that happens to work best. This may go against you, Christianity, and Plato, but it is a perfectly valid viewpoint and it is mine. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 12, 2018 6:04:03 GMT
No one cares about Plato. He's as important as yesteday's trash.
Anywho...I have my personal reasons why it's Christianity for me. I probably wouldn't be alive right now if I didn't choose it and didn't obey right when my life was in danger to be here today.
It was never about following what others follow. My family could be atheists (some are) and it wouldn't bother me any to please them. They can take a hike since I don't live for them Shrug
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 12, 2018 6:42:31 GMT
Your post is a product of the fact that Christianity inherited its concept of truth from Plato and not from the Old Testament. Plato believed in the corresponce theory of truth. The Old Testament does not. The Hebrew word translated has "truth" is "emet" which actually has a different meaning. It means a belief that can be counted on to meet expectations. The Old Testament has no concept of faith. Instead it recognizes that we simply must choose those axioms of belief that work best, and it argues that belief in God is the belief system that happens to work best. This may go against you, Christianity, and Plato, but it is a perfectly valid viewpoint and it is mine. Interesting position, one I had not admittedly thought of. So what exactly do these axioms of belief work best for is my next question. What end does belief in God achieve? Also, what is your actual position on the existence of a deity? |
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 12, 2018 6:46:45 GMT
No one cares about Plato. He's as important as yesteday's trash. Anywho...I have my personal reasons why it's Christianity for me. I probably wouldn't be alive right now if I didn't choose it and didn't obey right when my life was in danger to be here today. It was never about following what others follow. My family could be atheists (some are) and it wouldn't bother me any to please them. They can take a hike since I don't live for them  I follow it as a doubting Thomas. Blessed is he who has not seen yet has believed doesn't really apply to me. God once spoke clearly to me in such a way that I cannot deny his existence. God and Christianity is as real as gravity to me. |
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Post by fschmidt on Jul 12, 2018 7:13:11 GMT
Interesting position, one I had not admittedly thought of. So what exactly do these axioms of belief work best for is my next question. What end does belief in God achieve? Also, what is your actual position on the existence of a deity? I would say that my belief in God is more like my belief in evolution than like my belief in gravity. The evidence for gravity is the strongest and can be shown experimentally. The evidence for evolution and God are weaker, but these concepts are much more powerful, they can explain much more. Technically, philosophically, true beliefs are those that work best at meeting our own expectation of those beliefs. This is like a true friend who meets the expectations one has of a friend. This definition of truth may seem odd, but if one defines truth as working best at meeting some external goal, then one is again stuck with the problems that the correspondence theory of truth has. The Old Testament view of truth is the only one that I know of that has no philosophical problems. If you are interested in philosophy, then I recommend: www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Hebrew-Scripture-Yoram-Hazony-ebook/dp/B0096BCVPG/But this philosophical answer is not practical. To be practical, I need to say what my expectations are. My expectations of the concept of God is that it explains history and thereby gives me guidance for what to do to optimize the future. For far this concept has met this expectation. More crudely, the Old Testament says that God leads his people to victory in battle, which is saying the same thing in a way that primitive former slaves can understand. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 12, 2018 7:16:38 GMT
No one cares about Plato. He's as important as yesteday's trash. Anywho...I have my personal reasons why it's Christianity for me. I probably wouldn't be alive right now if I didn't choose it and didn't obey right when my life was in danger to be here today. It was never about following what others follow. My family could be atheists (some are) and it wouldn't bother me any to please them. They can take a hike since I don't live for them I follow it as a doubting Thomas. Blessed is he who has not seen yet has believed doesn't really apply to me. God once spoke clearly to me in such a way that I cannot deny his existence. God and Christianity is as real as gravity to me. Got spoken to too. Know what you mean then. Mine was similar to how God spoke to Samuel. Shrug |
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 12, 2018 8:16:29 GMT
I follow it as a doubting Thomas. Blessed is he who has not seen yet has believed doesn't really apply to me. God once spoke clearly to me in such a way that I cannot deny his existence. God and Christianity is as real as gravity to me. Got spoken to too. Know what you mean then. Mine was similar to how God spoke to Samuel. You heard God audibly? |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 12, 2018 8:25:20 GMT
Got spoken to too. Know what you mean then. Mine was similar to how God spoke to Samuel. You heard God audibly? I did unless an angel. Rather not talk about it though. Like I said was like a life or death moment. I was safe because I listened. The other person was not safe at all. :/ |
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 12, 2018 8:26:56 GMT
I did unless an angel. Rather not talk about it though. Like I said was like a life or death moment. I was safe because I listened. The other person was not safe at all. :/ I understand. When God talked to me it was about very personal things. So I understand not wanting to talk about it. |
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
|
Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 12, 2018 8:39:55 GMT
Interesting position, one I had not admittedly thought of. So what exactly do these axioms of belief work best for is my next question. What end does belief in God achieve? Also, what is your actual position on the existence of a deity? I would say that my belief in God is more like my belief in evolution than like my belief in gravity. The evidence for gravity is the strongest and can be shown experimentally. The evidence for evolution and God are weaker, but these concepts are much more powerful, they can explain much more. Technically, philosophically, true beliefs are those that work best at meeting our own expectation of those beliefs. This is like a true friend who meets the expectations one has of a friend. This definition of truth may seem odd, but if one defines truth as working best at meeting some external goal, then one is again stuck with the problems that the correspondence theory of truth has. The Old Testament view of truth is the only one that I know of that has no philosophical problems. If you are interested in philosophy, then I recommend: www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Hebrew-Scripture-Yoram-Hazony-ebook/dp/B0096BCVPG/But this philosophical answer is not practical. To be practical, I need to say what my expectations are. My expectations of the concept of God is that it explains history and thereby gives me guidance for what to do to optimize the future. For far this concept has met this expectation. More crudely, the Old Testament says that God leads his people to victory in battle, which is saying the same thing in a way that primitive former slaves can understand. Well, I respect that. I still stick with the western definition of truth. Does it map to reality? A statement is true if the statement describes reality accurately. If it doesn't it is a lie. Shrug |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 9:12:47 GMT
I've noticed that often people follow certain religions for very stupid reasons. For example what always makes me laugh is Germanic pagans or "Asatru" followers. If you ask them why they follow their religion they'll say its because their ancestors worshiped these gods and they are honoring their ancestors. Or there will be someone who follows Buddhism because they are a hipster who thinks Christianity is too mainstream and "Eastern philosophy is where its at." I've heard many stupid reasons for choosing a religion like off the top of my head, "It gives me spiritual fulfillment" or, "I'm honoring my ancestors" or "I love the philosophy of the religion" or, "the moral code of the religion gives me self discipline." To the Norse pagan who's honoring his ancestor I say ODIN DOESN'T EXIST! The Norse gods are not real and your ancestors were worshiping nothing. To every one else I say if you don't actually believe that the religion you follow is true then why do you waste your time and why do you insult the supposed religion you're following? There is only one valid reason for becoming a part of a religion and that is because you believe the religion is true. I follow Christianity because I believe that the old and new testaments of the Bible are accurate accounts of human history, that there is one God, the God of the Bible, that Jesus is his son, and that the death, resurrection, and ascendancy of Jesus into heaven is true and that Jesus will come again in Armageddon. If you don't actually believe your religion is true than why are you wasting your time following it? You're basically LARPing (live action roleplaying) and that is very disrespectful to the religion itself which makes claims of truth. The only valid reason to follow a religion is because you believe it to be true otherwise you are being stupid. so u managed to bring the church in other spiritual beliefs. great , just when i thought this was a safe haven left .  cannot overlook the information here sadly |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 9:18:52 GMT
No one cares about Plato. He's as important as yesteday's trash. Anywho...I have my personal reasons why it's Christianity for me. I probably wouldn't be alive right now if I didn't choose it and didn't obey right when my life was in danger to be here today. It was never about following what others follow. My family could be atheists (some are) and it wouldn't bother me any to please them. They can take a hike since I don't live for them Plato certainly does not deserve such words , even though IMHO not everything he said holds true , but man that guy was something awesome , he showers unknown perspectives that make your mind think . About danger that might simply be your resilience and Christianity was a medium , but it was more inclined towards your faith. Hindus and Muslims also go though such hardship and give credit to their respect faith , that doesnt mean its universal truth |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 9:21:30 GMT
No one cares about Plato. He's as important as yesteday's trash. Anywho...I have my personal reasons why it's Christianity for me. I probably wouldn't be alive right now if I didn't choose it and didn't obey right when my life was in danger to be here today. It was never about following what others follow. My family could be atheists (some are) and it wouldn't bother me any to please them. They can take a hike since I don't live for them I follow it as a doubting Thomas. Blessed is he who has not seen yet has believed doesn't really apply to me. God once spoke clearly to me in such a way that I cannot deny his existence. God and Christianity is as real as gravity to me. Faith overload perhaps |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 12, 2018 9:22:46 GMT
No one cares about Plato. He's as important as yesteday's trash. Anywho...I have my personal reasons why it's Christianity for me. I probably wouldn't be alive right now if I didn't choose it and didn't obey right when my life was in danger to be here today. It was never about following what others follow. My family could be atheists (some are) and it wouldn't bother me any to please them. They can take a hike since I don't live for them Plato certainly does not deserve such words , even though IMHO not everything he said holds true , but man that guy was something awesome , he showers unknown perspectives that make your mind think . About danger that might simply be your resilience and Christianity was a medium , but it was more inclined towards your faith. Hindus and Muslims also go though such hardship and give credit to their respect faith , that doesnt mean its universal truth Meant in terms of Chrsitianity. I don't see him have any part of it and totally shouldn't. He must stay as a famous philosopher only Shrug |
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cannot overlook the information here sadly