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Post by Διαμονδ on Jun 14, 2018 16:04:29 GMT
I don't agree with all of Dugin's ideas..but his ideas definitely make sense!
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Post by fschmidt on Jun 15, 2018 0:36:25 GMT
I read some of "The Fourth Political Theory" a few years ago which I got from Amazon, but I gave up because I have little interest in philosophy. Interestingly, I just want back to Amazon and it seems that they removed all of Dugin's books in English: www.amazon.com/s/?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=duginAmerica is the new Stalinist USSR and Dugin is censored. While Dugin is much more intelligent than anyone in academia in the West, I still have two criticisms of him. He is too verbose, and he has studied philosophy at the expense of primary sources in history. From history, he would have gotten a very different view of Western individualism. This really started with the Reformation which said that people did not need an intermediary (the Catholic Church) to connect to God. The idea that each person could follow God as an individual is really the basis of Western individualism. However this did not initially reject the value of the group. People understood that they needed to organize into voluntary groups, meaning churches, in order to support each other. The effective social contract of the Enlightenment was that society would support the individual and in exchange the individual would support society. But this only works when the people in the society have shared religious values. Without this, the system falls apart and this is what happened in the West. The cooperative individualism of the Enlightenment was a very good system but it requires strong uniform religious backing. Dugin's fourth political theory tries to deal with a society that contains various religions, which is the situation in Russia today. But other societies in the past have successfully dealt with this situation. The Islamic dhimmi system comes to mind. I don't really see how Dugin's fourth political theory differs from the Islamic dhimmi system in practice even though it differs in philosophy.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
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Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jun 15, 2018 6:51:13 GMT
So, you probably don't agree with his advises, and prognoses, do you?Thank you for your comments here. I doubt that someone else will be reading this topic. I agree with him about that! And on account of the civilization of the sea and land too... I think the theme will be relevant later! I like how he differentiated the south as a land civilization from the rest of the United States which is a sea civilization. It follows. Though I'm not a subscriber to Dugin. I believe that the Enlightenment and individualism are good things.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jun 15, 2018 8:10:11 GMT
I agree with him about that! And on account of the civilization of the sea and land too... I think the theme will be relevant later! I like how he differentiated the south as a land civilization from the rest of the United States which is a sea civilization. It follows. Though I'm not a subscriber to Dugin. I believe that the Enlightenment and individualism are good things. It's probably because Dixie's more focused on living in their region...when a liberal Yankee is ready to spread his ideas around the world.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jun 15, 2018 8:33:51 GMT
I like how he differentiated the south as a land civilization from the rest of the United States which is a sea civilization. It follows. Though I'm not a subscriber to Dugin. I believe that the Enlightenment and individualism are good things. It's probably because Dixie's more focused on living in their region...when a liberal Yankee is ready to spread his ideas around the world. Yes, the post Puritan Yankees have always considered themselves an enlightened people and could never leave anyone alone. I think that Dixie before and even after the Civil War had a lot of similarities with slave based warrior societies like Rome and Sparta and was much more of a premodern classical style civilization than the capitalist north, especially the deep south where I'm from. The architecture, the classical republican system dominated by a patrician class, the warrior ethic (southerners still make up almost half of the US military), the slave based plantation system (much like the Roman Latifundia), and a lot of other things were in many cases based consciously on classical presidents in Europe. There is a thesis called the Golden Circle thesis which theorizes that the south is actually the northernmost area of a larger multinational civilization stretching from Northern Brazil through the Caribbean and into the American South which were all plantation slave societies that shared values which were more in line with the classical values of Renaissance Europe than with the later age of Enlightenment. This book by a modern day Southern Ethnic nationalist goes into this further. www.amazon.com/Our-Southern-Nation-Origin-Future/dp/0996324828
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jun 20, 2018 4:32:42 GMT
Yes, the post Puritan Yankees have always considered themselves an enlightened people and could never leave anyone alone. I think that Dixie before and even after the Civil War had a lot of similarities with slave based warrior societies like Rome and Sparta and was much more of a premodern classical style civilization than the capitalist north, especially the deep south where I'm from. The architecture, the classical republican system dominated by a patrician class, the warrior ethic (southerners still make up almost half of the US military), the slave based plantation system (much like the Roman Latifundia), and a lot of other things were in many cases based consciously on classical presidents in Europe. There is a thesis called the Golden Circle thesis which theorizes that the south is actually the northernmost area of a larger multinational civilization stretching from Northern Brazil through the Caribbean and into the American South which were all plantation slave societies that shared values which were more in line with the classical values of Renaissance Europe than with the later age of Enlightenment. This book by a modern day Southern Ethnic nationalist goes into this further. www.amazon.com/Our-Southern-Nation-Origin-Future/dp/0996324828Enlightnization was widespread among not many, many literature, politic, scientific, and etc followers, so this idea was shared and pushing toward not only in the West. But, the idea of spreading their views was not based on enlightening principles, but rather on conquest tactics. It was shred, and it's still shared tactics of many countries. To Dugin's individualism/enlight: No, you're not right about Dugin's 'bad' thinking of individualism and enlightment's ideas. He's rather postmodernist, than monarchist, traditionalist, or something. Individualism is just a way of thinking which has been made by the folks on their territory, but it was a found of their own 'logos', which is the way of their life, their sense. Anyway, it was something that they got during their history, understanding themselves. So, his idea of individualism is that it ties up with liberal ideas which are laid under UK politics. However, in US he sees pragmatic ideals are laid under the roots of their philosophy. Liberal ideas, or pragmatism - it depends on the territory they live, not on 'spread everywhere' tactics. As we admire that there's no 'idealistic', naive decision about enlightening of all people, but we're dealing with just plain conquest tactics, and we can see that collectivism, or individualism is in the way of some folks. It doesn't mean that individualism, or enlightment are bad, but their ideas are dead, and using of these ideas is the way of exhausting your own potential. For example, pragmatic ideas are erasing now, and overwriting with liberal ideas in US which is a sing of real changes, i.e. 'an appearing of the contradiction'. The last ones were destructing many countries in past. So, the question of what strategy we should use depends not on the question of its own idea, but in idea of - what is going no in real? - to be sure what tactics we should use before spreading a certain idea. I actually support the enlightenment and enlightenment philosophy. When I say that the post Puritan Yankees consider themselves an enlightened people, I mean that they consider themselves smarter and more moral than everyone else and that the other cultures that make up the United States of America, especially the south and that everyone else should just shut up and do what they say whether they like it or not. This comes from the Puritan notion that they were Gods chosen people and were tasked with creating a perfect civilization, a shining city on a hill, and with saving the rest of the world and conforming it to their version of God's image. Then, they stopped believing in God and this mission to create a perfect society on earth secularized into modern progressivism in the United States. By Yankees I am only talking of the people in New England and greater New England and not the whole north.
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