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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 12, 2018 3:20:07 GMT
A side by side comparison of Roman Catholic teachings and Biblical doctrine. Roman Catholic Teachings
1)The bishops, with the pope as their head, rule the universal Church.
2)God has entrusted revelation to the bishops.
3)The pope is infallible in his teaching.
4)Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God.
5)Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participated with Christ in the painful act of redemption.
6)Mary is the co-mediator, to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions.
7)Initial justification is by means of baptism.
8)Adults must prepare for justification through faith and good works.
9)Grace is merited by good works.
10)Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments.
11)No one can know if he will attain to eternal life.
12)The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation.
13)Christ's body and blood exist wholly and entirely in every fragment of consecrated bread and wine in every Roman Catholic church around the world.
14)The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the sacrifice of the Mass.
15)Each sacrifice of the Mass appeases God's wrath against sin.
16)The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the sacrifice of the Mass.
| Biblical Doctrine
1)Christ, the head of the body, rules the universal church (Colossians 1:18).
2)God has entrusted revelation to the saints (Jude 3).
3)God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19; Acts 17:11).
4)Scripture alone is the Word of God (John 10:35; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21; Mark 7:1-13).
5)Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18,19).
6)Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5; John 14:13,14; 1 Peter 5:7).
7)Justification is by faith alone (Romans 3:28).
8)God justifies ungodly sinners who believe (Romans 4:5). Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause (Ephesians 2:8-10).
9)Grace is a free gift (Romans 11:6).
10)Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:10).
11)The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God and the testimony of the Holy Spirit who indwells believers (1 John 5:13; Romans 8:16).
12)There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
13)The bread and wine are symbols of the body and blood of Christ, and He is bodily present in heaven (1 Corinthians 11:23-25; Hebrews 10:12,13).
14)The sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).
15)The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God's wrath against sin (Hebrews 10:12-18).
16)The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 1:3). |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 15, 2018 18:59:56 GMT
Ow... It is so interesting and wonderful, to read all these 'sending to hell'. I wonder if people are so naughty about who goes to heaven, and who goes to hell, why not to use it like a business idea? Just open a shop with a tag 'Your Afterlife Adventures', and sell the promises of this. Determining process will be accept by the Christ's words; so, in the arguing case, there's always a method to avoid spare troubles by pointing this to the Bible, saying: "This promises were given by God, not of us". Anyway, there should not be any troubles, because we still don't know any cases of afterlife true stories. So, it's 100% good business. Just open it and sell the promises. The summation of the argument is as follows: 1) Protestants claim all non-christians are going to hell because of a sola-scriptura approach. 2) Catholicism claims is its possible for all to go to heaven, even percieved "athiests", under a tradition/scriptural approach. 3) Which faith embraces the fullness of Christian Mercy? Christ said few. Are you calling Him a liar? It's not what protestants said here. It's what Christ said.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 15, 2018 19:01:50 GMT
They don't fit the few profile Jesus said. So...it's a good guess. And like the Pharisees and Sadducees they all put tradition on a high pedestal. Tear it down and burn it! But they won't. Did you know the only Pharisee that I recall that separated from the big group that put traditions so high in their church was Paul? Paul stopped being a Pharisee follower because they were wrong and when he realized it he called himself a major sinner for going after the innocent when it was him who was wrong. He was part of a few now. God's followers were a small group then and now. Dktrav88 abandoned catholism too since he realized the big group preached tradition over God's commandments only. The rest are blind Jesus said and Pharisees were corrected time and time again and they still believed they'd go to heaven but they didn't go to heaven. It was tradition that sent them to hell, Jesus said. Eodnhoj7 open your eyes at the dangers of having tradition. God only wants His commandments followed not anything extra. That's why Jesus said many will try to enter heaven but won't! He's only taking a few. That's a warning God gave for people to wake up. Paul woke up and he's just one from Pharisees that I saw. One! How few is that? Tiny! How do you not see it? I'm astonished. Elizabeth open your eyes at the dangers of selectively interpreting scripture. 2 Peter 1:20-21 ESV Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Timothy 3:16 ESV All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. 1 Timothy 1:1-20 ESV / Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope, To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith. The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ... Only following scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 ESV So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 1 Corinthians 11:2 ESV Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 2 Thessalonians 2:14-15 ESV To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 1 Corinthians 11:1-2 ESV Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 ESV Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. I follow each verse. I am also aware that Christ said few. Are you?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 15, 2018 19:12:22 GMT
Ow... It is so interesting and wonderful, to read all these 'sending to hell'. I wonder if people are so naughty about who goes to heaven, and who goes to hell, why not to use it like a business idea? Just open a shop with a tag 'Your Afterlife Adventures', and sell the promises of this. Determining process will be accept by the Christ's words; so, in the arguing case, there's always a method to avoid spare troubles by pointing this to the Bible, saying: "This promises were given by God, not of us". Anyway, there should not be any troubles, because we still don't know any cases of afterlife true stories. So, it's 100% good business. Just open it and sell the promises. The summation of the argument is as follows: 1) Protestants claim all non-christians are going to hell because of a sola-scriptura approach. 2) Catholicism claims is its possible for all to go to heaven, even percieved "athiests", under a tradition/scriptural approach. 3) Which faith embraces the fullness of Christian Mercy? John 3:16-18 KJV [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. What does it say? “He that believeth on him(Christ) is not condemned: but he that beleiveth not is condemned ALREADY”. Read the CCC, it says you can only be saved if you are a member of the Catholic Church in 846. The title of CCC 846 is literally “Outside the Church there is no salvation”, Can you show me just one bible verse that says “the Church is the way to salvation”? If you can’t then both 1 and 2 are wrong. Number 3’s answer will always be “true biblical faith”.
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MEGA
Full Member
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Post by MEGA on Jun 15, 2018 19:28:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 14:39:36 GMT
So Catholics can go to heaven? Extremely unlikely based on Christ's words. They match Christ's drscription of Pharisees and Sadducees by 100%. Even down to actions and dress. Scary resemblance. Catholics should try to change that but they seem to want to match it as perfectly as possible. Rather dumb I'd say It is unlikely they go to heaven, therefore it is possible? Do they match the Pharisees and Sadducees by 100%? The reason I ask this is that Jesus went to the temple in his youth, observed these same rituals, the scripture observes the necessity of carrying on tradition (such as the breaking of bread/Eucharist) which the Pharisees and Sadducees did not observe, etc. Doing away with ritual completely and correcting the wrongs inherent within it are too seperate things. Even sola scriptura results in the bible reading as a ritual in itself with the bible possibly being interpretted as the worshipping of an idol in itself...it is just a book.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 14:41:56 GMT
The summation of the argument is as follows: 1) Protestants claim all non-christians are going to hell because of a sola-scriptura approach. 2) Catholicism claims is its possible for all to go to heaven, even percieved "athiests", under a tradition/scriptural approach. 3) Which faith embraces the fullness of Christian Mercy? Christ said few. Are you calling Him a liar? It's not what protestants said here. It's what Christ said. A few spread over several denominations is different than a few from one denomination. Are you making him a liar?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 14:52:18 GMT
The summation of the argument is as follows: 1) Protestants claim all non-christians are going to hell because of a sola-scriptura approach. 2) Catholicism claims is its possible for all to go to heaven, even percieved "athiests", under a tradition/scriptural approach. 3) Which faith embraces the fullness of Christian Mercy? John 3:16-18 KJV [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. What does it say? “He that believeth on him(Christ) is not condemned: but he that beleiveth not is condemned ALREADY”. Read the CCC, it says you can only be saved if you are a member of the Catholic Church in 846. The title of CCC 846 is literally “Outside the Church there is no salvation”, Can you show me just one bible verse that says “the Church is the way to salvation”? If you can’t then both 1 and 2 are wrong. Number 3’s answer will always be “true biblical faith”. And the Church is the universal body of Christ, expressed by the men and women who do his will, and extends itself across all denominations considering all denominations diverging from it by default are extensions of it. Catholicism is about universality and maintains itself as the "fullest" of the faiths, while observing those that extend from it go to heaven also...even the percieved "atheist" which does his will. James 1:27 27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. The Catholic Church is the largest Humanitarian organization in the world, if not then one of the largest...can a solo obscure protestant denomination say the same? Can they say they are doing God's will? Does your "denomination" of well...whoever you say it is... really believe in God? Or like the pharisees Matthew 6:5 5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. Luke 18:10-14 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people-robbers, evildoers, adulterers-or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' 13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' 14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted." Quoting the bible like a weapon does not make you a Christian...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 14:53:39 GMT
William, if you know so much, I doubt answering the thread question will be difficult for you...or are you just luke-warm?
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 16, 2018 16:11:39 GMT
Extremely unlikely based on Christ's words. They match Christ's drscription of Pharisees and Sadducees by 100%. Even down to actions and dress. Scary resemblance. Catholics should try to change that but they seem to want to match it as perfectly as possible. Rather dumb I'd say It is unlikely they go to heaven, therefore it is possible? Do they match the Pharisees and Sadducees by 100%? The reason I ask this is that Jesus went to the temple in his youth, observed these same rituals, the scripture observes the necessity of carrying on tradition (such as the breaking of bread/Eucharist) which the Pharisees and Sadducees did not observe, etc. Doing away with ritual completely and correcting the wrongs inherent within it are too seperate things. Even sola scriptura results in the bible reading as a ritual in itself with the bible possibly being interpretted as the worshipping of an idol in itself...it is just a book. You do realize Jesus called traditions the commandments people follow right? And Jesus and his disciples only taught to observe the 10 commandments tradition. There's only 10. These weird guys here who are probably like Pharisees and Sadduccees had 613 traditions/commandments in the below link! How many traditions/commadments in Catholicism alone? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 16:16:20 GMT
It is unlikely they go to heaven, therefore it is possible? Do they match the Pharisees and Sadducees by 100%? The reason I ask this is that Jesus went to the temple in his youth, observed these same rituals, the scripture observes the necessity of carrying on tradition (such as the breaking of bread/Eucharist) which the Pharisees and Sadducees did not observe, etc. Doing away with ritual completely and correcting the wrongs inherent within it are too seperate things. Even sola scriptura results in the bible reading as a ritual in itself with the bible possibly being interpretted as the worshipping of an idol in itself...it is just a book. You do realize Jesus called traditions the commandments people follow right? And Jesus and his disciples only taught to observe the 10 commandments tradition. There's only 10. These weird guys here who are probably like Pharisees and Sadduccees had 613 traditions/commandments in the below link! How many traditions/commadments in Catholicism alone? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandmentsLook at the verse on "tradition" I posted above...if they are not there or you cannot find them I will post them again. On a seperate note, Catholics do not have 613 tradition/commandments so the two cannot be equated in these respects.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 16, 2018 16:18:40 GMT
Christ said few. Are you calling Him a liar? It's not what protestants said here. It's what Christ said. A few spread over several denominations is different than a few from one denomination. Are you making him a liar? This makes no sense. Different denominations observe and believe different things but there's only one way to heaven Jesus said so cannot be a few from different denominations who believe in different ways to heaven.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 16, 2018 16:19:20 GMT
You do realize Jesus called traditions the commandments people follow right? And Jesus and his disciples only taught to observe the 10 commandments tradition. There's only 10. These weird guys here who are probably like Pharisees and Sadduccees had 613 traditions/commandments in the below link! How many traditions/commadments in Catholicism alone? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandmentsLook at the verse on "tradition" I posted above...if they are not there or you cannot find them I will post them again. On a seperate note, Catholics do not have 613 tradition/commandments so the two cannot be equated in these respects. I asked how many do they have? There should be only 10.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 16:24:41 GMT
A few spread over several denominations is different than a few from one denomination. Are you making him a liar? This makes no sense. Different denominations observe and believe different things but there's only one way to heaven Jesus said so cannot be a few from different denominations who believe in different ways to heaven. And there are not difference denominations of Christians? Or are just one group of Christians going? Is this group a single denomination or does it extend across all of them?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 16:26:51 GMT
Look at the verse on "tradition" I posted above...if they are not there or you cannot find them I will post them again. On a seperate note, Catholics do not have 613 tradition/commandments so the two cannot be equated in these respects. I asked how many do they have? There should be only 10. And where is the scriptural verse for that considering the "tradition" of breaking bread is scriptural? So are there more than ten traditions, (which are seperate from laws in the respects they provide a means through which we exist under the law.)?
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 16, 2018 16:30:25 GMT
This makes no sense. Different denominations observe and believe different things but there's only one way to heaven Jesus said so cannot be a few from different denominations who believe in different ways to heaven. And there are not difference denominations of Christians? Or are just one group of Christians going? Is this group a single denomination or does it extend across all of them? Jesus said just the sheep kind are going not the goats who only "appear Christian". So it's whoever follows just Him and His 10 commandments/traditions which He says is a few. Many goats but few sheep that actually follow Him. Shrug So it's those who reject anything but 10 commandments/traditions that are following Jesus. He hates the other added traditions. I can't answer you on denomination since some are just born into a denomination and don't care too much for it. So in order to tell you for sure I'd need access to the book of Life. But it'll still say names not a denomination. So the few arw scattered somewhere then Shrug
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