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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 7:58:49 GMT
www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/johns-story-why-i-left-eastern-orthodoxy-for-evangelicalism/“I would have caved had I not begun reading the Bible the Baptists had given me,” John says with a smile. “As I began reading Scripture, I understood Jesus to be the only way to God. I realized I did not need the Orthodox church or even a priest to be my mediator, for Jesus was the mediator between me and the Father.” Though John does not use the term, it is clear from his testimony that he had acquired an unshakable belief in the Reformation doctrine of sola scriptura. “I realized that the Bible was the authority, even over the Church. The Bible was true, and the Church with all its traditions and rituals was wrong.” What do those who are members of the Orthodox Church think of this and the rest of what is said in the article?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 22, 2018 16:32:41 GMT
www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/johns-story-why-i-left-eastern-orthodoxy-for-evangelicalism/“I would have caved had I not begun reading the Bible the Baptists had given me,” John says with a smile. “As I began reading Scripture, I understood Jesus to be the only way to God. I realized I did not need the Orthodox church or even a priest to be my mediator, for Jesus was the mediator between me and the Father.” Though John does not use the term, it is clear from his testimony that he had acquired an unshakable belief in the Reformation doctrine of sola scriptura. “I realized that the Bible was the authority, even over the Church. The Bible was true, and the Church with all its traditions and rituals was wrong.” What do those who are members of the Orthodox Church think of this and the rest of what is said in the article? I have liked to read the two interviews of people who have switched allegiance to Churches (either from the eastern Orthodox one to one form of Evangelicalism, or from the latter to the former). The presented controversy is not a controversy of religions but of Christian theologies. Evangelicalism, or Lutheranism in particular, admits of one authority only, the Scriptures, and does away with ancient rituals, which exist in Orthodoxy and in Catholicism. However, the Scriptures (or the New Testament in particular), which originally were in Greek, are not the pure word of God (as some theologians believe). They include some doctrines and rituals from the Greek world or from the Greek writers, the Evangelists, who supposedly were inspired or made infallible by the Holy Spirit. So, accepting the New Testament is accepting a man-made theology which has dubious factual foundations. (As I am no longer a Christian, I will not enter into the present controversy, and, unlike Bertrand Russell, I will not write an Apology [Defense] as to why I cannot be a Christian, or the follower of any other religion. In the future, somebody may want to open the discussion why he wants to be, or not to be, a Christian. In the early days of Christianity, some writers made their defense of their own pagan religions.)
I’m no expert in koine Greek and neither are you. If you have faith in God and His promise to preserve His word forever, you’ll have faith in the scriptures(at least some of them, because many English translations are corrupted. The devil has be trying to change what God has said since the beginning[Genesis 3:1]) we have available to us today, that they are inerrant and infallible. As for the difference in theologies, orthodoxy is based almost purely on traditions that have come from ecumenical church councils since the first century. It’s no different that the cardinals of the Catholic Church coming together to discuss catholic traditions and doctrines, none of which are based on scripture.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 22, 2018 16:39:12 GMT
Man Your position is understandable to me, but I have not received any good refutations! Also, I do not understand whether you have a relationship with Molokans or not?
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 22, 2018 16:43:09 GMT
Correct it's that people read the bible differently. I however cannot comprehend how a church has authority when Jesus has full authority over heaven and earth as it says here. Matthew 28 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. And I also don't understand their human priest when Jesus is our priest. Hebrews 4:14 14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. It's weird. Catholics and Orthodox have a church as their authority and a human priest. My church is Jesus with authority and Jesus as priest. Where is your church located? I would like to attend And my church doesn't have church fathers like theirs does. We just have a Heavenly Father. Matthew 11:27 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. And Jesus who is the Priest reveals the Father as it says. So He is the only one who reveals the Father
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 22, 2018 16:48:37 GMT
Man Your position is understandable to me, but I have not received any good refutations! Also, I do not understand whether you have a relationship with Molokans or not? Scripture refutes orthodoxy, you choose to ignore the scripture that tells you you’re wrong. This is literally the discussion we are having but simplified; diamond: my church fathers, my church fathers, my church fathers! My church fathers are my authority! Elizabeth and myself: scripture, scripture, scripture! Scripture is the authority!
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 22, 2018 16:51:06 GMT
It's weird. Catholics and Orthodox have a church as their authority and a human priest. My church is Jesus with authority and Jesus as priest. I Patiently Repeat - The Lord Jesus Christ founded the Church "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 1:18). "Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you the guardians of the mouth of the Church of the Lord God, which He purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:23). "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it" (Eph.5: 25). The Church of the Living God is the pillar and the affirmation of the truth "(1 Timothy 3:15). "Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:20). "In order that the manifold wisdom of God might now become known to the authorities and authorities in the heavens through the Church" (Eph. 3:10). a) Eternal "I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Mt. 16: 18), i.e. all the evil of the world - temptations, external persecutions, intrigues of the devil, will not prevail against it, since the founder and its head is Jesus Christ, the true God (John 10: 30; Acts 10:36; 1 John 5:20; : 5; and others). He is the cornerstone (Matt. 21: 43; Lk.20: 17-18; Eph. 2:20; 1 Cor. 3: 11) of the Church. Overcoming the Church would mean defeating Christ Himself, who promised to remain with her all the days until the end of the age (Mt. 28:20). ^ b) The church is continuous The Church of Christ, as continuously existed from its foundation to our days, will so endlessly exist "until the end of the age". "I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (Mt. 28:20). "And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever" (John 14: 16). "To him be glory in the church in Christ Jesus (through Christ) to all generations, from age to age" (Eph.3: 21). "Well said," explains St. John Chrysostom, "and this is His glory in the Church, for it is known that the Church will always exist. And since she always abides, then (the apostle) wants us to glorify God even to the end of the world, which he explained, saying: "in all generations." Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). All that is written above is only the Bible! This is the official position of the Orthodox Church which is only on the Bible ... I await literate denials! Otherwise this conversation does not make any sense! Amen!
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 22, 2018 16:53:31 GMT
It's weird. Catholics and Orthodox have a church as their authority and a human priest. My church is Jesus with authority and Jesus as priest. I Patiently Repeat - The Lord Jesus Christ founded the Church "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 1:18). "Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you the guardians of the mouth of the Church of the Lord God, which He purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:23). "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it" (Eph.5: 25). The Church of the Living God is the pillar and the affirmation of the truth "(1 Timothy 3:15). "Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:20). "In order that the manifold wisdom of God might now become known to the authorities and authorities in the heavens through the Church" (Eph. 3:10). a) Eternal "I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Mt. 16: 18), i.e. all the evil of the world - temptations, external persecutions, intrigues of the devil, will not prevail against it, since the founder and its head is Jesus Christ, the true God (John 10: 30; Acts 10:36; 1 John 5:20; : 5; and others). He is the cornerstone (Matt. 21: 43; Lk.20: 17-18; Eph. 2:20; 1 Cor. 3: 11) of the Church. Overcoming the Church would mean defeating Christ Himself, who promised to remain with her all the days until the end of the age (Mt. 28:20). ^ b) The church is continuous The Church of Christ, as continuously existed from its foundation to our days, will so endlessly exist "until the end of the age". "I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (Mt. 28:20). "And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever" (John 14: 16). "To him be glory in the church in Christ Jesus (through Christ) to all generations, from age to age" (Eph.3: 21). "Well said," explains St. John Chrysostom, "and this is His glory in the Church, for it is known that the Church will always exist. And since she always abides, then (the apostle) wants us to glorify God even to the end of the world, which he explained, saying: "in all generations." Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). All that is written above is only the Bible! This is the official position of the Orthodox Church which is only on the Bible ... I await literate denials! Otherwise this conversation does not make any sense! Amen!Yes, Jesus made the church. And He has authority of the church and thr church obeys Him. Where do your verses mention human priest or church fathers? They don't.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 22, 2018 16:58:37 GMT
Scripture refutes orthodoxy, you choose to ignore the scripture that tells you you’re wrong. This is literally the discussion we are having but simplified; diamond: my church fathers, my church fathers, my church fathers! My church fathers are my authority! Elizabeth and myself: scripture, scripture, scripture! Scripture is the authority! Dude you wrote it in vain! Just read it carefully ... check the story! Yes, Jesus Himself told in Revelations about the Orthodox Church of exists until this day, how it says the Bible (the Word of God), the Church of the Eternal and His Word! A good day to everyone! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_of_Philadelphia
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 22, 2018 16:59:30 GMT
It's weird. Catholics and Orthodox have a church as their authority and a human priest. My church is Jesus with authority and Jesus as priest. I Patiently Repeat - The Lord Jesus Christ founded the Church "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 1:18). "Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you the guardians of the mouth of the Church of the Lord God, which He purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:23). "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it" (Eph.5: 25). The Church of the Living God is the pillar and the affirmation of the truth "(1 Timothy 3:15). "Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:20). "In order that the manifold wisdom of God might now become known to the authorities and authorities in the heavens through the Church" (Eph. 3:10). a) Eternal "I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Mt. 16: 18), i.e. all the evil of the world - temptations, external persecutions, intrigues of the devil, will not prevail against it, since the founder and its head is Jesus Christ, the true God (John 10: 30; Acts 10:36; 1 John 5:20; : 5; and others). He is the cornerstone (Matt. 21: 43; Lk.20: 17-18; Eph. 2:20; 1 Cor. 3: 11) of the Church. Overcoming the Church would mean defeating Christ Himself, who promised to remain with her all the days until the end of the age (Mt. 28:20). ^ b) The church is continuous The Church of Christ, as continuously existed from its foundation to our days, will so endlessly exist "until the end of the age". "I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (Mt. 28:20). "And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever" (John 14: 16). "To him be glory in the church in Christ Jesus (through Christ) to all generations, from age to age" (Eph.3: 21). "Well said," explains St. John Chrysostom, "and this is His glory in the Church, for it is known that the Church will always exist. And since she always abides, then (the apostle) wants us to glorify God even to the end of the world, which he explained, saying: "in all generations." Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). All that is written above is only the Bible! This is the official position of the Orthodox Church which is only on the Bible ... I await literate denials! Otherwise this conversation does not make any sense! Amen!It’s the official position of the Catholic Church too but they’re just as wrong as the Orthodox Church. Just because your church has continued its ways for centuries doesn’t make it right. You perceive your church as incorruptible and infallible, that is your downfall. Check your pride.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 22, 2018 17:04:11 GMT
Scripture refutes orthodoxy, you choose to ignore the scripture that tells you you’re wrong. This is literally the discussion we are having but simplified; diamond: my church fathers, my church fathers, my church fathers! My church fathers are my authority! Elizabeth and myself: scripture, scripture, scripture! Scripture is the authority! Dude you wrote it in vain! Just read it carefully ... check the story! Yes, Jesus Himself told in Revelations about the Orthodox Church of exists until this day, how it says the Bible (the Word of God), the Church of the Eternal and His Word! A good day to everyone! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_of_PhiladelphiaMy goodness, anyone who knows history knows that the church of Philadelphia was in Turkey which was controlled by Muslims before the Byzantine empire was ever a thought in anyone’s mind.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 22, 2018 17:08:29 GMT
Diamond your issue is you think your church is the continuation of the same church Christ established during His time on earth which is just flat out ignorant. Show me where in scripture Christ established ALL the rituals and traditions the Orthodox Church practices today. You say you know history and yet your are ignorant of key details! The Orthodox Church was a part of the Catholic Church at a point in time, remember? The Catholic Church has always been corrupt! Orthodoxy has taken MANY of the same traditions from the Catholic Church! This flies right over your head because of your pride!
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 22, 2018 17:12:21 GMT
Dude you wrote it in vain! Just read it carefully ... check the story! Yes, Jesus Himself told in Revelations about the Orthodox Church of exists until this day, how it says the Bible (the Word of God), the Church of the Eternal and His Word! A good day to everyone! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_of_PhiladelphiaMy goodness, anyone who knows history knows that the church of Philadelphia was in Turkey which was controlled by Muslims before the Byzantine empire was ever a thought in anyone’s mind. It's an Orthodox church! Was it always there that they also falsely believe in God? Not according to the Bible ?? Revelations are a prophetic book ... there it is predicted that this church will exist during the antichrist and preach against him... you can go there and see that they preach Orthodoxy!
When all of Asia Minor was conquered by the Ottomans, only one last stronghold remained in Byzantium. "Having lost Ephesus, Christians mourned the first extinguished lamp, mentioned in the Apocalypse. There, destruction was universal; the shrine of Artemis and the temple of the Blessed Virgin were buried under the ruins. The circus and three theaters of Laodicea became the lair of jackals and wolves, Sardis became an insignificant village, in Pergamum and Thyatira only mosques are visible instead of monuments; and Smirna owes its population only to the foreign trade of francs and Armenians. One Philadelphia was saved through its firmness. Distant from the sea, forgotten by Byzantine emperors ... Her fellow citizens defended their faith and freedom for almost a century and plucked from the most arrogant of all Ottomans a glorious surrender. After the destruction of the Greek colonies and the Asiatic churches, only one Philadelphia remained, like a pillar among the ruins. "
So writes about Philadelphia Edward Gibbon, an English researcher of the "dying" period of the Roman Empire.
Indeed, the city of the Sixth Church of the Apocalypse, which received from Christ such encouraging words of encouragement and promise of victory, throughout its long history often turned out to be the last "bastion" of the whole region. And the Greek Orthodox community of Philadelphia - the same Church of Philadelphia - remaining the second largest in Asia Minor after Smyrna, existed here until the beginning of the twentieth century.
Neither Bayazid, nor Tamerlane, turning to dust all the cities on their way, could not trample down Philadelphia. After the heroic resistance, the city was captured, but not destroyed. Here, during the invasion of Tamerlane, the Sardinian Christians with their bishop, and the Jewish community of Sardis, also took refuge. Some scholars draw a parallel between this fact and the words of the promise to the Philadelphia community: Behold, I will make that of the satanic congregation, of those who say of themselves that they are Jews, but are not so, but lie, that they will come and worship before your feet, and they will know that I have loved you (Revelation 3: 9).
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 22, 2018 17:20:37 GMT
My goodness, anyone who knows history knows that the church of Philadelphia was in Turkey which was controlled by Muslims before the Byzantine empire was ever a thought in anyone’s mind. It's an Orthodox church! Was it always there that they also falsely believe in God? Not according to the Bible ?? Revelations are a prophetic book ... there it is predicted that this church will exist during the antichrist and preach against him... you can go there and see that they preach Orthodoxy!
When all of Asia Minor was conquered by the Ottomans, only one last stronghold remained in Byzantium. "Having lost Ephesus, Christians mourned the first extinguished lamp, mentioned in the Apocalypse. There, destruction was universal; the shrine of Artemis and the temple of the Blessed Virgin were buried under the ruins. The circus and three theaters of Laodicea became the lair of jackals and wolves, Sardis became an insignificant village, in Pergamum and Thyatira only mosques are visible instead of monuments; and Smirna owes its population only to the foreign trade of francs and Armenians. One Philadelphia was saved through its firmness. Distant from the sea, forgotten by Byzantine emperors ... Her fellow citizens defended their faith and freedom for almost a century and plucked from the most arrogant of all Ottomans a glorious surrender. After the destruction of the Greek colonies and the Asiatic churches, only one Philadelphia remained, like a pillar among the ruins. "
So writes about Philadelphia Edward Gibbon, an English researcher of the "dying" period of the Roman Empire.
Indeed, the city of the Sixth Church of the Apocalypse, which received from Christ such encouraging words of encouragement and promise of victory, throughout its long history often turned out to be the last "bastion" of the whole region. And the Greek Orthodox community of Philadelphia - the same Church of Philadelphia - remaining the second largest in Asia Minor after Smyrna, existed here until the beginning of the twentieth century.
Neither Bayazid, nor Tamerlane, turning to dust all the cities on their way, could not trample down Philadelphia. After the heroic resistance, the city was captured, but not destroyed. Here, during the invasion of Tamerlane, the Sardinian Christians with their bishop, and the Jewish community of Sardis, also took refuge. Some scholars draw a parallel between this fact and the words of the promise to the Philadelphia community: Behold, I will make that of the satanic congregation, of those who say of themselves that they are Jews, but are not so, but lie, that they will come and worship before your feet, and they will know that I have loved you (Revelation 3: 9).You’re wishfully believing that the church of Philadelphia is the Orthodox Church. It’s pure fantasy, wishful thinking. You think nothing has been corrupted since the time of Christ it’s pure ignorance.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 22, 2018 17:41:20 GMT
It's weird. Catholics and Orthodox have a church as their authority and a human priest. My church is Jesus with authority and Jesus as priest. I Patiently Repeat - The Lord Jesus Christ founded the Church "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 1:18). "Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you the guardians of the mouth of the Church of the Lord God, which He purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:23). "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it" (Eph.5: 25). The Church of the Living God is the pillar and the affirmation of the truth "(1 Timothy 3:15). "Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:20). "In order that the manifold wisdom of God might now become known to the authorities and authorities in the heavens through the Church" (Eph. 3:10). a) Eternal "I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Mt. 16: 18), i.e. all the evil of the world - temptations, external persecutions, intrigues of the devil, will not prevail against it, since the founder and its head is Jesus Christ, the true God (John 10: 30; Acts 10:36; 1 John 5:20; : 5; and others). He is the cornerstone (Matt. 21: 43; Lk.20: 17-18; Eph. 2:20; 1 Cor. 3: 11) of the Church. Overcoming the Church would mean defeating Christ Himself, who promised to remain with her all the days until the end of the age (Mt. 28:20). ^ b) The church is continuous The Church of Christ, as continuously existed from its foundation to our days, will so endlessly exist "until the end of the age". "I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (Mt. 28:20). "And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever" (John 14: 16). "To him be glory in the church in Christ Jesus (through Christ) to all generations, from age to age" (Eph.3: 21). "Well said," explains St. John Chrysostom, "and this is His glory in the Church, for it is known that the Church will always exist. And since she always abides, then (the apostle) wants us to glorify God even to the end of the world, which he explained, saying: "in all generations." Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). Protestants say 1) Where two or three are gathered in the name of Christ, there is also the Church (Mt. 18: 20). In the verse. 19-20 (Matt. 18) Jesus Christ speaks not of the Church, but of prayer. The Lord points out that the unanimity of those who pray, who are in union with His Church (cf verse 17), regardless of the number of persons, inclines the Heavenly Father to mercy, if, of course, they are worthy of it, ask for what is pleasing to God and useful to them; and He Himself dwells among them (cf. Jn.14: 23; 1 John 3: 23-24, 4: 18-21). All that is written above is only the Bible! This is the official position of the Orthodox Church which is only on the Bible ... I await literate denials! Otherwise this conversation does not make any sense! Amen!If I had my computer, I’d point out all the straw men you continually attack. It’s very difficult for me to have a discussion on these forums via my phone. So I’ll just point out one for now. You quoted Matthew 18:20 and said Protestants believe 2 or 3 is a church, but scripture doesn’t say that, it says, Matthew 18:20 KJV [20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. It doesn’t say church. Moreover, you keep labeling us a Protestants as if it were just a general term. Protestants are not a universal church like the Orthodox Church. Protestants believe many different things, this you are obviously ignorant of as you continue to attack beliefs that Elizabeth and I are not subscribed to. It makes you look very foolish. In reality you have no idea what we believe because you don’t ask us what we believe and put us in a bucket with a generic label. Eugene is guilty of this too. The goal for me isn’t to get you to become a Protestant, I can care less about labels. I don’t even consider myself a part of any denomination because I don’t like to be generalized. Ask me what I believe, dont throw a label on me.
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Post by just10sp on Apr 22, 2018 17:46:28 GMT
I just want to mention any good you see church pastors, fathers, and priests doing is just the good that Jesus himself did. This is part of his “marvel what I have achieved on the cross.” Jesus is the catalyst in any Christian’s life, he set everything into motion since before the writing of the Old Testament. Since there is only one teaching Jesus taught, one understanding, there should not be all the denominations that there are, and no I do not believe churches are perfect, like Jesus was. John 4:21-24 I have read a large majority of churches have pagan influences, and that the Roman Empire changed how worship takes place. For example there are many pagan temples that Romans converted into Christian Churches.
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Post by just10sp on Apr 22, 2018 17:49:04 GMT
Where is your church located? I would like to attend And my church doesn't have church fathers like theirs does. We just have a Heavenly Father. Matthew 11:27 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. And Jesus who is the Priest reveals the Father as it says. So He is the only one who reveals the Father Makes sense!
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