|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 13, 2018 8:40:43 GMT
The doctrine of salvation is often discussion among Christians on and off the internet, but it is obvious that there is a divide in what Christians believe salvation is and how to achieve it. One argument is that we are saved by our good works, our repenting of our sins, and our keeping of the law. While another argument is that we are saved by faith and by faith only. And a third argument is that we are saved by both faith and works, but which one of these is true? There are also other disagreements in the doctrine of salvation as many believe it is possible to lose our salvation once we are saved and others believe it is impossible to lose our salvation, but which one is true? The best we can do is to refer ourselves to the scriptures as God's word is all that we have to tell us what the truth is. Based on your reading of the scriptures, which doctrine of salvation do you believe is true doctrine? Please use scripture to support your belief.
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 14, 2018 9:25:09 GMT
I will remind that people living before the era of Christ after death have always gone to hell! Because they did not have a method for salvation - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 After Christ is risen - John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not in the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abideth upon him-!
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 14, 2018 9:40:24 GMT
DKTrav88 Why do we need to prove our faith to God? We just have to show it. That's it. Because scripture says to show our works. It says we have to so verses are verses. I don't mess with what God says. So if this verse is really completed that Jesus tells us to do then there is nothing else to add. I would be worried not to complete the below verse. If you rather ignore the verse then that's up to you. I make sure to do all of them so then He doesn't ask where my works went when He askes for them by saying He told me about it in the below verse. Because since I'm saved by His grace I know that He expects me to live by the law as He fulfilled it Himself. So if Christ lives in me I must reflect Him and do what He did. And He also completed the works to glorify the Father before people. And through His works the people did indeed glorify God. Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. I'm not disagreeing with the verse nor am I ignoring it. I actually agree with it wholeheartedly. We should let our light shine before men that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven. This verse doesn't say "let our light shine before God that He may see our good works", does it? "I make sure to do all of them so then He doesn't ask where my works went when He askes for them by saying He told me about it in the below verse." He's going to bring up all the works you've done, yes, good and bad, but your faith in Him is what saves, not your works. Your works give you rewards in heaven, 1 Corinthians 3
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 14, 2018 9:42:23 GMT
I will remind that people living before the era of Christ after death have always gone to hell! Because they did not have a method for salvation - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23After Christ is risen - John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not in the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abideth upon him-!Sorry, I don't believe that people living before the era of Christ went to hell after they died because Christ had not come and set a method of salvation. Faith has always been what has saved us, even in the OT, except it wasn't faith in Christ, it was faith in God.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 14, 2018 9:46:19 GMT
Here's a good one.
1 Corinthians 3:8-15
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Feb 14, 2018 9:53:21 GMT
DKTrav88 Why do we need to prove our faith to God? We just have to show it. That's it. Because scripture says to show our works. It says we have to so verses are verses. I don't mess with what God says. So if this verse is really completed that Jesus tells us to do then there is nothing else to add. I would be worried not to complete the below verse. If you rather ignore the verse then that's up to you. I make sure to do all of them so then He doesn't ask where my works went when He askes for them by saying He told me about it in the below verse. Because since I'm saved by His grace I know that He expects me to live by the law as He fulfilled it Himself. So if Christ lives in me I must reflect Him and do what He did. And He also completed the works to glorify the Father before people. And through His works the people did indeed glorify God. Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. I'm not disagreeing with the verse nor am I ignoring it. I actually agree with it wholeheartedly. We should let our light shine before men that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven. This verse doesn't say "let our light shine before God that He may see our good works", does it? "I make sure to do all of them so then He doesn't ask where my works went when He askes for them by saying He told me about it in the below verse." He's going to bring up all the works you've done, yes, good and bad, but your faith in Him is what saves, not your works. Your works give you rewards in heaven, 1 Corinthians 3 But who checks if we do what the bible says? He does! He will check to see if we did it all for Him. I still never said works save. Faith is justified by works. Just works is no salvation. Just faith without works is no salvation because faith without works is dead.
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 14, 2018 9:54:29 GMT
I will remind that people living before the era of Christ after death have always gone to hell! Because they did not have a method for salvation - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23After Christ is risen - John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not in the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abideth upon him-!Sorry, I don't believe that people living before the era of Christ went to hell after they died because Christ had not come and set a method of salvation. Faith has always been what has saved us, even in the OT, except it wasn't faith in Christ, it was faith in God. -For great is thy mercy unto me: thou hast delivered my soul from the grave of hell -Psalms 86:13 - the king and the prophet David are singing about their future salvation! - for as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights- (Matthew 12: 38-40) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_HellIf you do not like the traditional Christian view of this then this is your problem!
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 14, 2018 10:04:20 GMT
I'm not disagreeing with the verse nor am I ignoring it. I actually agree with it wholeheartedly. We should let our light shine before men that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven. This verse doesn't say "let our light shine before God that He may see our good works", does it? "I make sure to do all of them so then He doesn't ask where my works went when He askes for them by saying He told me about it in the below verse." He's going to bring up all the works you've done, yes, good and bad, but your faith in Him is what saves, not your works. Your works give you rewards in heaven, 1 Corinthians 3 But who checks if we do what the bible says? He does! He will check to see if we did it all for Him. I still never said works save. Faith is justified by works. Just works is no salvation. Just faith without works is no salvation because faith without works is dead. Yes, God does check to see if we do what the Bible says. But our faith isn't justified by works before God, as Romans 4:2 says; why would the requirement for salvation be different from what it was for Abraham? it isn't. Abraham was justified by his faith before God, and his works didn't justify his faith before God(again Romans 4:2), it justified his faith only before men. Yes, faith without works is dead, before men. Look at 1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.Your works will be manifested in the day of judgement and tried by fire, and if your works burn, meaning you don't have works worthy of God, they will be considered nothing, but you will still be saved. It says it right there^
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 14, 2018 10:08:38 GMT
Sorry, I don't believe that people living before the era of Christ went to hell after they died because Christ had not come and set a method of salvation. Faith has always been what has saved us, even in the OT, except it wasn't faith in Christ, it was faith in God. -For great is thy mercy unto me: thou hast delivered my soul from the grave of hell -Psalms 86:13 - the king and the prophet David are singing about their future salvation! - for as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights- (Matthew 12: 38-40) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_HellIf you do not like the traditional Christian view of this then this is your problem! David isn't speaking in future tense there in Psalm 86:13. He says "thou hast delivered" as in it has already happened. Yeah, I don't like to follow traditions. I like to follow God's word
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Feb 14, 2018 10:09:12 GMT
Uses words like labour and works and that a man's work will be made manifest. I agree.
Matthew 9 36 But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion for them, because they were weary and scattered, like sheep having no shepherd. 37 Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. 38 Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.”
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 14, 2018 10:11:34 GMT
I will remind that people living before the era of Christ after death have always gone to hell! Because they did not have a method for salvation - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23After Christ is risen - John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not in the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abideth upon him-!Sorry, I don't believe that people living before the era of Christ went to hell after they died because Christ had not come and set a method of salvation. Faith has always been what has saved us, even in the OT, except it wasn't faith in Christ, it was faith in God. You just do not read the Bible correctly, it's faith in Christ that saves a man! Why did Christ come and die on the cross ??? Muslims believe in the god of Abraham and the Jews too ... they also have salvation? No, because believers specifically in Christ his risen have a salvation ..
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 14, 2018 10:17:44 GMT
-For great is thy mercy unto me: thou hast delivered my soul from the grave of hell -Psalms 86:13 - the king and the prophet David are singing about their future salvation! - for as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights- (Matthew 12: 38-40) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_HellIf you do not like the traditional Christian view of this then this is your problem! David isn't speaking in future tense there in Psalm 86:13. He says "thou hast delivered" as in it has already happened. Yeah, I don't like to follow traditions. I like to follow God's word David just has a style like that! Are you sure about without traditions his Word is possible? This is for lazy people!
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 14, 2018 10:23:58 GMT
Sorry, I don't believe that people living before the era of Christ went to hell after they died because Christ had not come and set a method of salvation. Faith has always been what has saved us, even in the OT, except it wasn't faith in Christ, it was faith in God. You just do not read the Bible correctly, it's faith in Christ that saves a man! Why did Christ come and die on the cross ??? Muslims believe in the god of Abraham and the Jews too ... they also have salvation? No, because believers specifically in Christ his risen have a salvation .. Yes, it is faith in Christ that saves a man now after Christ has already come. Was the faith of Abraham counted for nothing? Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Galatians 3:8-9 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Genesis 15:3-6 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness. Sorry Diamond, salvation has always been and always been by faith.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 14, 2018 10:27:09 GMT
David isn't speaking in future tense there in Psalm 86:13. He says "thou hast delivered" as in it has already happened. Yeah, I don't like to follow traditions. I like to follow God's word David just has a style like that! Are you sure about without traditions his Word is possible? This is for lazy people! Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 14, 2018 10:31:19 GMT
The faith of Abraham is faith in God's promise. The belief that him will have a son and will have descendants and the belief that he will be saved at the right time! The Mechanism of Salvation, you know the essence! If you think smarter than millions of generations of Christians, then I will tell you this: For there will be a time when sound doctrine will not be accepted, but by their whims they will elect teachers for themselves that would flatter their ears; 4and they turn away the ears from the truth, and turn to fables. The Second Epistle of Timothy CHAPTER 4.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Feb 14, 2018 10:39:42 GMT
But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:18–24)
|
|