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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 7, 2018 19:42:31 GMT
I don't understand. Whites could be pure evil and some shouldn't even exist like Hitler and Stalin. So how are whites elite or considered to be? People are just people. ...black, white, brown, and blue with Mohawks. Shrug
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
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Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 9, 2019 22:53:16 GMT
You believe two wrongs make a right? Has nothing to do with two wrongs...When he made his comment prior to mine I didn't see you jumping on him? Oh yes, because you and I disagree on the issue. I get it, I'm the only black dude here with the divisive opinion (and the only rational one at that), but I'm not going to sit here and let broad sweeping generalizations be done about me with some stranger who hasn't accomplished what I have say thing he does not know. I never once made a sweeping generalization about you. I've never personally insulted you in any way.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 9, 2019 23:03:03 GMT
"but I'm not going to sit here and let broad sweeping generalizations be done about me with some stranger" Isn't that what you're doing by claiming "white privilege"? No. Because I've shown as a system it is real. Look, I'm not going to go back and forth with you as well cause you have shown you don't like facts. Now the discussion has changed to wanting to talk about what "my people need to do to gain respectability." I see I've stumbled upon a website filled with people that have some racial prejudices, one being racist among them. So DKTrav88 has racial prejudice because he doesn't believe white privilege exists? That's about 90% of white Americans. I get why you're calling me racist and I expected it, and I don't care either. You may be used to shutting down your enemies by crying racist at white people (black privilege) but you'll get crickets from me for using that word. You talk about how you've probably accomplished more than me at 36 than I have as a college student at 25. Congratulations, I'm happy for you. I also do not care. It takes a very insecure man to dick measure in such a pathetic fashion. If you are so much better than me than why are you sitting here wasting your day arguing with me on the internet?
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anaxagoras
Junior Member
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Age: 36
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Post by anaxagoras on Mar 10, 2019 0:15:13 GMT
@clovis you said
You also said:
I am a part of the demographic which which you were generalizing, so in retrospect, you were also talking about me. These are racist talking points and the fact that you don't see that says a lot about your intellect. If I said the same thing I'd be guilty of racist rhetoric to which I'm complaining about.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 0:20:16 GMT
anaxagoras What you are discussing here is not my concern but I have a question, as I'm curious. Don't you perceive this part as a generalization? Sorry for the way I quoted it, I forgot how to properly quote here.
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anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
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mtDNA: Don't know
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Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
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Post by anaxagoras on Mar 10, 2019 0:22:12 GMT
No. Because I've shown as a system it is real. Look, I'm not going to go back and forth with you as well cause you have shown you don't like facts. Now the discussion has changed to wanting to talk about what "my people need to do to gain respectability." I see I've stumbled upon a website filled with people that have some racial prejudices, one being racist among them. So DKTrav88 has racial prejudice because he doesn't believe white privilege exists? That's about 90% of white Americans. I get why you're calling me racist and I expected it, and I don't care either. You may be used to shutting down your enemies by crying racist at white people (black privilege) but you'll get crickets from me for using that word. You talk about how you've probably accomplished more than me at 36 than I have as a college student at 25. Congratulations, I'm happy for you. I also do not care. It takes a very insecure man to dick measure in such a pathetic fashion. If you are so much better than me than why are you sitting here wasting your day arguing with me on the internet? Given this topic and the unwillingness to listen to reason, and given the fact that I was singled out despite you making a blatant racist comment, the racial bias is there. You said: "You may be used to shutting down your enemies by crying racist at white people (black privilege)." Do you even understand the term privilege? How am I somehow privilege for making an astute observation of the remarks you've made against African-Americans. You make the claim you aren't racist but have clearly made racist comments. Yes, yes of course I'll get nothing from you. I expect that. For someone that is close-minded and who touts Jeffersonian thought, I would not expect nothing less. You said: It was suggested that I come here. I'm merely killing time before my shift starts (yes there are black people that work), but you're right, I'm wasting my time here.
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anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
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Post by anaxagoras on Mar 10, 2019 0:27:40 GMT
anaxagoras What you are discussing here is not my concern but I have a question, as I'm curious. Don't you perceive this part as a generalization? Sorry for the way I quoted it, I forgot how to properly quote here. So you focus on what I'm saying but clearly my comment was aimed in conjunction to a post that said.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 10, 2019 0:27:43 GMT
@clovis you said You also said: I am a part of the demographic which which you were generalizing, so in retrospect, you were also talking about me. These are racist talking points and the fact that you don't see that says a lot about your intellect. If I said the same thing I'd be guilty of racist rhetoric to which I'm complaining about. Listen anaxagoras, I am very tired of arguing about this. Can we just agree to disagree? I have absolutely nothing against you; I do not know you; you are some faceless individual behind a computer on the other side of the continent. I'm on my spring break and do not want to waste time arguing with you over a subject of which I care very little. If we keep going on like this, this debate will continue for days. This is simply not worth my time or yours. I have nothing against you or your race or ethnic group, I simply think that there are certain cultural problems within it that hold back its success relative to other groups. I have told you that these problems also permeate my group as well so this is not a critique based on race but on culture. If that offends you or if I have been crass in stating my opinion than I apologize to you for that. I don't want to argue about this anymore.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 0:29:24 GMT
anaxagoras What you are discussing here is not my concern but I have a question, as I'm curious. Don't you perceive this part as a generalization? Sorry for the way I quoted it, I forgot how to properly quote here. So you focus on what I'm saying but clearly my comment was aimed in conjunction to a post that said. I focused on what I saw without reading all this stuff. Just catched my eye. The issues in American society are not my problem and will never be. I asked a simple question. Was it a generalization, or was it not?
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 10, 2019 0:44:04 GMT
@clovis you said You also said: I am a part of the demographic which which you were generalizing, so in retrospect, you were also talking about me. These are racist talking points and the fact that you don't see that says a lot about your intellect. If I said the same thing I'd be guilty of racist rhetoric to which I'm complaining about. Listen anaxagoras, I am very tired of arguing about this. Can we just agree to disagree? I have absolutely nothing against you; I do not know you; you are some faceless individual behind a computer on the other side of the continent. I'm on my spring break and do not want to waste time arguing with you over a subject of which I care very little. If we keep going on like this, this debate will continue for days. This is simply not worth my time or yours. I have nothing against you or your race or ethnic group, I simply think that there are certain cultural problems within it that hold back its success relative to other groups. I have told you that these problems also permeate my group as well so this is not a critique based on race but on culture. If that offends you or if I have been crass in stating my opinion than I apologize to you for that. I don't want to argue about this anymore. Was he thinking you're against African Americans? Because we have all races on arktos and don't promote racism. Plus people in America are a mixing pot and have all sorts of races. I live in his state too so we have no problems here overall with race since very diverse.
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anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
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Post by anaxagoras on Mar 10, 2019 1:04:04 GMT
Now let's get back to this ridiculousness called Clovis Merovingian's post No you don't cause you clearly made a racist statement by generalizing all African-Americans remember? Remember we are composed of all the bad qualities in a minority group when compared to Asians and Jews? Your backwards thinking are just like the backwoods you come from who think believing in segregation (for purposes of being with one's own ethnic group) does not make them racist. Dude are you smoking methamphetamine when you post? You clearly said and I quote: Do you read what you write or just post whatever comes to your head? So when you made that inaccurate generalization what point were you getting across? Is being Jew a part of the census when trying to get an accurate account for ethnic groups? No it is not. Judaism is not an ethnoreligion like Hinduism. Does a black person who converts to Judaism ceases to be black because they became a Jew? No. but this is besides the point. You're naming conservative black talking heads. Candice Owens? She got called out by Roland Martin on his show and she was too scared to debate actual politics and you name her? Libertarian Conservatives do not speak for me so why are you using these as examples? I understand maybe that is your political lean but more certainly they are not examples nor do they speak for me. That is an economic issue. That doesn't change the fact that typically, whites socially have privileges other people of color do not have and they don't have to be economic. I made that clear before. Here, this reading ought to help you it is a paper in response to McIntosh's paper on white privilege called "EXPLAINING WHITE PRIVILEGE TO A BROKE WHITE PERSON..." medschool.duke.edu/sites/medschool.duke.edu/files/field/attachments/explaining_white_privilege_to_a_broke_white_person.pdfThat is HIS theory. There are other theories I believe are more compatible with reality however. I mean what is "ghetto culture?" I'd like to think adopting maladaptive behavior is learned, and in the case of impoverished environments often reproduced based on the limited resources in these environments. I don't see how Sowell's theory holds up considering that blacks were segregated for so long how do you adopt this mentality? The closes thing of likening one behavior to another is based on the idea of the house and field negro that is it. Sowell's theory makes sense for people like you because it again lessens the sin perpetuated by early white settlers and colonizers. That is an economic issue and if i'm not mistaken the South leads the country. As far as crime is concerned there are other factors that come into play in regards to crime, but why don't you worry about what is going on in your neck of the woods. With the opioid crisis going on and the meth that is being smoked in those trailer parks I would have thought maybe you'd be more focused on your community. YOUR community leads the country in receiving government benefits. YOUR community in particular white women lead the country in receiving affirmative action. If you have something to complain about complain about that? Oh, and before you go off and talk about "well there is more white people" if we are going to make arguments of that sort what about the able bodied people within that demographic that don't go out looking for jobs and mooch off the government? If we are throwing stones at glass houses here... No, that is now you articulated that point in fact it appeared as a blatant generalization. You're in college? I hope you're doing a lot better in your writing style there then you are here because your points are crisscrossing. In your previous posts you didn't use the word "some" or phrases like "according to this study" you made a statement as if it was true which of course it wasn't therefore by default it was a generalization based on what I perceived at the time, conjecture. If you're trying to state a fact you need to have evidence not use anecdotes. Your problem is you're using anecdotes and common stereotypes to make a point and its not working and in fact its actually making you look like the racist by making these generalizations. In the future if you're going to make a statement of fact, make sure you back that up with proof. If it's just a theory or if you're make an anecdotal statement then say so, but presenting something as fact without posting facts to back it up just means it is a weak argument and that its basically an anecdotal statement whose plausibility is in question this is something that college teaches you. As for this subject I'm done. I deal with little boys at work, I don't feel like dealing with them online. I think I'll retire and go back discussing philosophy on the other site, it's a bit more lively there anyway. I hope one day you mature and grow up and sharpen your ability to convey your thoughts properly.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 10, 2019 2:57:10 GMT
Now let's get back to this ridiculousness called Clovis Merovingian's post No you don't cause you clearly made a racist statement by generalizing all African-Americans remember? Remember we are composed of all the bad qualities in a minority group when compared to Asians and Jews? Your backwards thinking are just like the backwoods you come from who think believing in segregation (for purposes of being with one's own ethnic group) does not make them racist. No, I didn't generalize all African Americans, when I say "African Americans," it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that I'm talking about averages. I don't need to clarify anything because anyone with an IQ of over 60 gets it. You didn't.Dude are you smoking methamphetamine when you post? You clearly said and I quote: Do you read what you write or just post whatever comes to your head? So when you made that inaccurate generalization what point were you getting across? It's you who's smoking methamphetamines. I never said that any of that is because they are genetically less intelligent, violent, or anything else. I clarified very clearly that this problem is due to cultural reasons, not genetic reasons which anyone who is able to READ can understand. But it seems to me that you are impaired in many ways.Is being Jew a part of the census when trying to get an accurate account for ethnic groups? No it is not. Judaism is not an ethnoreligion like Hinduism. Does a black person who converts to Judaism ceases to be black because they became a Jew? No. but this is besides the point. I can't believe that I have to explain what a Jew is to a 36-year-old man. There's the Jewish RELIGION in which anyone regardless of ethnic background can convert to, and then there's the Jewish ETHNIC GROUP in which there are many atheistic nonreligious Jews. Being on the census is a stupid way to define what an ethnic group is. Ethnic Jews consider themselves to have a common ancestry which they define as being descended from Abraham, Issac, and Jacob; they have common cultural traditions, a common history detailed in the Old Testament of the Bible, a common religion, a common ancestral language (ancient Hebrew), music, art, literature etc. Those are the Markers of an ethnic group. The state of Israel allows the right of return for people in if they practice the Jewish religion or even if they are nonreligious if they are of the Jewish ethnicity.
You're naming conservative black talking heads. Candice Owens? She got called out by Roland Martin on his show and she was too scared to debate actual politics and you name her? Libertarian Conservatives do not speak for me so why are you using these as examples? I understand maybe that is your political lean but more certainly they are not examples nor do they speak for me. Oh, they're not black enough for you because they have a different political opinion than you? That's right they're Uncle Toms and traitors to the black race because they don't buy into your victimization bullshit and rightly point out that its elements of black culture that are holding blacks back. Yeah, screw them for telling blacks that they can actually work hard and make it in this country and that whites are not literally out to drink your blood. Shut the fuck up.That is an economic issue. That doesn't change the fact that typically, whites socially have privileges other people of color do not have and they don't have to be economic. I made that clear before. Here, this reading ought to help you it is a paper in response to McIntosh's paper on white privilege called "EXPLAINING WHITE PRIVILEGE TO A BROKE WHITE PERSON..." medschool.duke.edu/sites/medschool.duke.edu/files/field/attachments/explaining_white_privilege_to_a_broke_white_person.pdfYes, I read the last idiotic white privilege thing you posted and explained why that was stupid. I'm not going to do this again for you. It's like explaining things to a three-year-old.That is HIS theory. There are other theories I believe are more compatible with reality however. I mean what is "ghetto culture?" I'd like to think adopting maladaptive behavior is learned, and in the case of impoverished environments often reproduced based on the limited resources in these environments. I don't see how Sowell's theory holds up considering that blacks were segregated for so long how do you adopt this mentality? The closes thing of likening one behavior to another is based on the idea of the house and field negro that is it. Sowell's theory makes sense for people like you because it again lessens the sin perpetuated by early white settlers and colonizers. "But... but Slavery! Colonialism! Segregation! White Privilege! Racism! Racism! Racism!" You just repeat the same old idiotic slogans, the ravings of someone who lives like its still 1960. Segregation doesn't cause a black man to skip town on his children or shoot his black neighbor. White men aren't putting a gun to their head and making them do it. "White privilege" certainly isn't. I've already admitted that my people (southerners) have similar problems, but you are unwilling to admit the faults of your own culture. And your leaders do not admit it either; that's why the problem is unlikely to be fixed.That is an economic issue and if i'm not mistaken the South leads the country. As far as crime is concerned there are other factors that come into play in regards to crime, but why don't you worry about what is going on in your neck of the woods. With the opioid crisis going on and the meth that is being smoked in those trailer parks I would have thought maybe you'd be more focused on your community. YOUR community leads the country in receiving government benefits. YOUR community in particular white women lead the country in receiving affirmative action. If you have something to complain about complain about that? Oh, and before you go off and talk about "well there is more white people" if we are going to make arguments of that sort what about the able bodied people within that demographic that don't go out looking for jobs and mooch off the government? If we are throwing stones at glass houses here... I do, and I did. I mentioned at least THREE TIMES that my people have similar problems to you. The difference between you and me is that I can admit to the faults of my own culture and you can't. You look down on us southerners as the dregs of humanity and sneer at us when your people have the same damn problems and you call me a racist. But... I know what you're going to say. "Slavery! Segregation! Jim Crow! White Privilege!" Your mind is too small to come up up with anything rational.No, that is now you articulated that point, in fact, it appeared as a blatant generalization. You're in college? I hope you're doing a lot better in your writing style there then you are here because your points are crisscrossing. In your previous posts, you didn't use the word "some" or phrases like "according to this study" you made a statement as if it was true which of course it wasn't therefore by default it was a generalization based on what I perceived at the time, conjecture. If you're trying to state a fact you need to have evidence not use anecdotes. Your problem is you're using anecdotes and common stereotypes to make a point and its not working and in fact it's actually making you look like the racist by making these generalizations. In the future if you're going to make a statement of fact, make sure you back that up with proof. If it's just a theory or if you make an anecdotal statement then say so, but presenting something as fact without posting facts to back it up just means it is a weak argument and that it's basically an anecdotal statement whose plausibility is in question this is something that college teaches you. As for this subject, I'm done. I deal with little boys at work, I don't feel like dealing with them online. I think I'll retire and go back discussing philosophy on the other site, it's a bit more lively there anyway. I hope one day you mature and grow up and sharpen your ability to convey your thoughts properly. You see with normal people reading what I have to say, they understand that I'm talking about averages because they aren't feeble-minded nincompoops with a victim complex like you. I posted some statistics. I know you can't read, but I posted them. They said 77% of black children are born to out of wedlock mothers and that blacks commit half of the murders and violent crime despite being 14% of the population and commit other crimes similarly out of proportion to their population. Whites do commit more crime but they are by conservative estimates 61% of the country and a lot of those white crimes are from my region the south.
I am extremely tired of arguing with you. Your points are tedious. You are like a gnat that buzzes around and bites causing great irritation. You are insignificant, annoying, unintelligent, and you see the world entirely through the prism of race. I simply WILL NOT engage with you anymore. You have nothing of value to say. If you respond to me, I will not respond to you. You are not worth my time.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 10, 2019 16:17:12 GMT
Guys, I really want you to respect each other. Some talks are too hot sometimes, and for all of us should be given a break.
A very basic condition and a law of this forum - to respect any images and shapes of another member of the community, and respect his views.
No one who's spoiling these rules won't be allowed here, and won't be welcomed here.
Being respectful is not just the strong requirement, and obviously not just a wish, but this is a way of polite existence with each other.
So, I insist that anyone who wants to be heard must use correct form of his comments.
'Correct' means polite & respectful.
Your behavior is seen just on its form. So, trying to be polite, please, use soft lexicon, warm and pleasure words. Let your opponent feel himself comfortable.
I beg you all, but if rules would be spoiled, it would be a signal to start the conversation under less warm and polite conditions.
With respects, your Eugene 2.0
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:21:17 GMT
Guys, I really want you to respect each other. Some talks are too hot sometimes, and for all of us should be given a break. A very basic condition and a law of this forum - to respect any images and shapes of another member of the community, and respect his views. No one who's spoiling these rules won't be allowed here, and won't be welcomed here. Being respectful is not just the strong requirement, and obviously not just a wish, but this is a way of polite existence with each other. So, I insist that anyone who wants to be heard must use correct form of his comments. 'Correct' means polite & respectful. Your behavior is seen just on its form. So, trying to be polite, please, use soft lexicon, warm and pleasure words. Let your opponent feel himself comfortable. I beg you all, but if rules would be spoiled, it would be a signal to start the conversation under less warm and polite conditions. With respects, your Eugene 2.0 And that's correct! Different people - different views. If someone can't cope with that then it is better to avoid serious topics. Even in my case, I spent the most of the time with the guy from Lviv this year, drinking beers and vodka, he is a big fan of Bandera, yet we managed to put the differences aside and enjoy drinking. I strongly recommend acting properly while discussing serious topics, otherwise you will find a lot of reasons to experience unnecessary irritation. I may not be an expert on the subject of the American society and its "problems", but I strongly believe that an actual ethnic cleansing and death of 100 000 of people just because being of certain ethnicity is a more serious problem than "who has it better nowadays" in certain place. Yet I managed to have a great time with that guy from Lviv despite of differences. Just look on the positives. If you think you are unable to accept different ways of thinking, then just don't debate about certain stuff. Peace. (although I'd love to receive an answer to my question)
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 10, 2019 17:44:22 GMT
Guys, I really want you to respect each other. Some talks are too hot sometimes, and for all of us should be given a break. A very basic condition and a law of this forum - to respect any images and shapes of another member of the community, and respect his views. No one who's spoiling these rules won't be allowed here, and won't be welcomed here. Being respectful is not just the strong requirement, and obviously not just a wish, but this is a way of polite existence with each other. So, I insist that anyone who wants to be heard must use correct form of his comments. 'Correct' means polite & respectful. Your behavior is seen just on its form. So, trying to be polite, please, use soft lexicon, warm and pleasure words. Let your opponent feel himself comfortable. I beg you all, but if rules would be spoiled, it would be a signal to start the conversation under less warm and polite conditions. With respects, your Eugene 2.0 And that's correct! Different people - different views. If someone can't cope with that then it is better to avoid serious topics. Even in my case, I spent the most of the time with the guy from Lviv this year, drinking beers and vodka, he is a big fan of Bandera, yet we managed to put the differences aside and enjoy drinking. I strongly recommend acting properly while discussing serious topics, otherwise you will find a lot of reasons to experience unnecessary irritation. I may not be an expert on the subject of the American society and its "problems", but I strongly believe that an actual ethnic cleansing and death of 100 000 of people just because being of certain ethnicity is a more serious problem than "who has it better nowadays" in certain place. Yet I managed to have a great time with that guy from Lviv despite of differences. Just look on the positives. If you think you are unable to accept different ways of thinking, then just don't debate about certain stuff. Peace. (although I'd love to receive an answer to my question) Hmm... interesting. Some of my friends spent time in Lviv, but I'd never been to. I accuse racism in any form. However, I don't like to accent just one side of any problem. For example, I discussed with some guys (among theme were Jews) that Holocaust was just a part of WWII, we shouldn't differentiate one problem to another. My great-grandfather died on the war fighting fascists, and another grandfather was a kid then, and he lived under those horrors of war. So, I consider my feelings be hurt if someone says that there has been Holocaust, while not saying anything about the other ones. So, I think Holocaust is a bad example of differentiation of people by national signs. (And, it should be said, for some of people (some of them I know personally), have another vision of what Holocaust is. They have gone through the war's horrors, and it is a memory to them. I understand those people and respect their views, 'cause this views are completely honest, while many talks about Holocaust now is just a matter of politician games.) I almost know nothing about Bandera, because I know how falsifiable history can be, but if he did something illegal, without any doubts, I condemn it. Also, I think that there's nothing to argue between you and that guy, because Bandera is dead, and we can't resurrect him. Actually, it's not a good way to find any links in a conversation trying to judge persons in history; even in present days we can't judge people of their tastes. A part of us may want to blow the hell out the Earth, or some of us might want to have endless perfect sex with many girls on this planet... etc. And, as I think, these tastes are sacred. If I couldn't imagine Elizabeth in my night dreams, my life wouldn't be worth to live (I apologize for such a long text...) Our lives are not so long as we want, and I think it's really important to spend some time to do something positive, like to say someone something pleasure; to love someone, to kiss someone, to hug someone, etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 18:16:12 GMT
Yeah, I have a lot of argue about with the American and Israeli Jews, especially recently. They keep accusing Poland for collaborating with the Germans, while it was the only country which never installed a collaborationist government. But that's a different story. I have a bad feelings towards specific Jews because all my life I perceived them as some kind of "brothers in suffering", while they perceive us as enemies. Different topic though. With Bandera the situation is different. This guy I was talking about, you see, I don't focus on the person he glorifies, but on what he thinks he represented. To him Bandera was a hero who fought for the independence of Ukraine. Against Poles, sure, I understand that. But he perceives Volhynian massacre as something disconnected from Bandera. So he glorifies him because of the values he thinks Bandera followed, and these supposed values are similar to mine. How reality looked like may be a different thing. And I even agree with him sometimes, because I don't perceive Bandera as the main villain on the Ukrainian side, as he was imprisoned in Sachsenhausen when all shit happened. Usually other Poles perceive him as an icon of this ethnic cleansing/genocide. Why we were talking about it? Simple. We both studied archeology and we both are extremely interested in history. Every single time we were drinking alcohol, we were talking about history. Not only Polish or Ukrainian, history in general. That's our hobby. And it was fun. I have this... maybe advantage over other Poles, that I have some distance and I listen to what people have to say. And because of that I understood, that his glorification of Bandera and UPA has nothing to do with all these horrific events. Simply his understanding of history is different. So it's a matter of perception. We liked to talk about it, because we were interested in it, a common topic. Something that makes time go faster (which has it's cons when it went too fast) and makes us happy in a result of this meeting. At least until vodka's gone. Then we had to move our butts to buy another one and sometimes we were noticing that it's already 4 AM. He was often saying that I am his favourite Pole because of my non-hostile attitude, and that he can freely share his thoughts without being afraid of starting an argument. :D
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