|
Post by Elizabeth on Oct 7, 2018 19:42:31 GMT
I don't understand. Whites could be pure evil and some shouldn't even exist like Hitler and Stalin. So how are whites elite or considered to be? People are just people. ...black, white, brown, and blue with Mohawks. Shrug
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 2:43:41 GMT
Because this is politics, and is irrespective of skin color and creeds. EVen non whites consider themselves elites, and do apartheid on their people.
There is a term called white trash, who are neglected by elite white. When it comes to power, anyone would like to keep control, and would only keep people around their coterie who do servility to them.
This white elitism was started by britishers in their colonies. And even swarthy people were not given privileges. Afrikaans, who are white, were also slaved by british lord, before the boer war happened.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 5, 2019 5:08:46 GMT
So these people had to claim that they had Native American blood in their ancestry, then, and only then, would they have the privilege of obtaining land for $5. So, simply put, these white people would have to claim that they are something other than white to get the privilege of paying $5 for land. This isn’t white privilege, this is other-than-white privilege. And Elizabeth Warren was guilty of doing this exact thing; claiming to be something other than white in order to get a special privilege. No, you are missing the point immensely. Early white settlers, colonialists or what not already had the privilege of land, economic growth, and power. their privilege was already established even you cannot deny that. You asked the question "If privilege exists, why did Elizabeth Warren pretend to be Native American to get ahead in her career?" the whole model of superiority in this case, white supremacy is about the demonstration of privilege through tactics to promote cultural superiority. In the case of the $5 Native American, white men wanted more than what they already had therefore they sought loopholes in transactions to acquire lands through deceptive means.
"These were opportunistic white men who wanted access to land or food rations,” said Gregory Smithers, associate professor of history at Virginia Commonwealth University. “These were people who were more than happy to exploit the Dawes Commission—and government agents, for $5, were willing to turn a blind eye to the graft and corruption."
There attempt was to gain more access and resources to which they have already had, in a lot of cases more than others.
That's an interesting way of twisting it. I wouldn't say white people were privileged to having land at all, they came and took it. If they had to come take something, it was never theirs and they never had the a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them to have any land at all. We could go hypothetical and say "What if those people who came across the Atlantic Ocean were African instead of European?" Then the twist would be to a black privilege. Privilege is not set to a specific people of certain skin color, that's extremely superficial. It is decided by a number of factors, i.e. plutocracy, etc.; nobody can deny that athletes within sports such as American football and basketball, being dominated by African Americans, are very very wealthy... are they privileged? I can tell you that I had to work hard for everything I have. It didn't come to me as a privilege, I had to go out and get it, just like all those athletes, movie stars, business owners, etc. of other than white skin had to do to get theirs. I'm going to school to be an aircraft mechanic.. I didn't have the privilege of just being hired without the getting training first, nobody did. There are black people in my school, we are all in the same boat. Anyone who pays any attention to history knows that people all over the world have done things like this.. and Hint: They weren't all white. Yea, I think you missed it... it says " These were people"... because people in general do screwy things like exploit others and turn to corruption for whatever gain they want. It isn't anything knew, it has been happening since before Europe was called Europe and white people were called white. You should look into what happened with the Trail of Tears; the Cherokee Indians' own leaders turned against them, took money from the US government that was supposed to be used to help them get to the Oklahoma Territory for themselves, and let so many of their own people die. You can sit here and try to impose a guilt trip on white people if you wish, but I'd say it's very superficial and closed-minded to do so; the idea negates human history as a whole and concentrates on a race of people... it is something a racist would do.
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 5, 2019 11:48:56 GMT
Whiteys are no more evil than any other races.
There's misunderstand here I see - almost everyone tells that morals duties could be done by any races, but it wasn't true. Each color had each abilities and it would be dumb to deny. All the civilizations we've have now are build by whiteys. All the gadgets, all the phones and computers came from Europeans mostly.
But!
What isn't in a view field of almost everyone is that this civilization life isn't the one and the only we're looking for. Yes, all thanks and all rights belong to Europeans, but it doesn't mean that the planet Earth belongs to them. Let the other races show themselves.
If it would be possible, and we'd found similar to Earth planets, I put each races on each planet to stop their quarrels.
___
Yes, I support the the meaning that each races have their own potential, and that they are not equal in all aspects, and I do not see myself as nationalist, or nazi, or someone like that. I hate Nazi (my great grandfathers fought in WWII), but it doesn't mean that all Nazi's views were false.
|
|
anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
|
Post by anaxagoras on Mar 5, 2019 16:38:24 GMT
The problem of this system being a white supremacist society that oppresses minorities is that many minorities are far more successful a revered than whites especially Jews and Asians who are regarded as smarter and harder working than whites because of their race. Nigerian and Caribbean blacks are also far richer and more successful than whites on average despite this system supposedly being rigged against them. The reason that some races and ethnic groups are more successful than others in the USA is that the United States is a meritocracy where generally the most intelligent, hardworking, and talented people get ahead and some cultures value these things or discourage them in varying degrees. The reason that Nigerian blacks are successful and African American blacks are not is that in Nigerian culture you are either 1. a doctor 2. a lawyer 3. an engineer 4. a disgrace. Black Americans, on the other hand, have a culture that worships violence, laziness, and ignorance. I went to school with the black kids all through high school and I've experienced this first hand. If a black kid were to show any interest in intellectual pursuits or his academic standing he would be accused of "acting white." On top of that many of them had criminal records in their teens, were using drugs, and reacted to any perceived slight with violence. Their women were promiscuous and many of them had babies in their early teens. If you asked the black males what they wanted to do with their life they wanted to be a rapper or play basketball. To not be poor in this country you have to do three things 1. not have babies out of wedlock 2. finish high school 3. hold a job and keep it. Many African Americans cannot seem to do one of these three things. On top of that, the men have a tendency to impregnate the women and then skip town leaving their children in an often abusive fatherless upbringing. I've been around African Americans my whole life and many of them are great people that I love dearly but the problems I mention, I've seen first hand and they are pervasive and need to be honestly discussed if there is any chance to improve the situation. Saying, "I can't get ahead because of white people," will solve nothing and is self-defeating in the end. Telling their children that lie will only serve to hold them back when they have so much potential. The reason many migrants whether they're migrants of color is because of the actions of the civil rights movement. Sure, you can attribute to culture and how certain immigrant cultures flourish economically and academically, but this is largely due to the actions of the civil rights movement. According to an online article by "Facing South," it exclaims that "congress passed the Immigration Act of 1917, effectively banning Asian, Mexican and Mediterranean people from entering the United States, along with the poor, political radicals and those with mental or physical disabilities." It further adds:
"Seven years later, Congress passed the Immigration Act of 1924, also known as the Asian Exclusion Act. The law created a quota system that prioritized immigrants from Northern and Western Europe, drastically restricted immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe and Africa, and completely banned Arabs, Asians and Indians. The law's stated purpose was to "preserve the idea of American homogeneity."
Source:https://www.facingsouth.org/2017/02/how-civil-rights-movement-opened-door-immigrants-color
I think unfortunately these so-called "model minorities" forget that these laws were in place to mitigate their entry for the purposes of preserving "white identity" another element of "white elitism."
It was not the immigrant, but four black college students who sat at a segregated table that spurred the civil rights movement which "brought down Jim Crow and led to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965." What made successive head way for immigrants who did in fact flourish in the sciences or what not, was congress passing the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, abolishing the race-based immigration quota system and replacing it with a system that prioritized refugees, people with special skills, and those with family members living in the United States. It also forbade discrimination in the issuance of immigrant visas on the basis of race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence."
Regardless of their success, in many parts of the United States there are still whites who still view them as inferior, and this extends even in the elevated circles of our society. We can definitely see an example in Obama's presidency in the birther movement. The removal of unconstitutional laws just means it levels the playing field in some which is only more so going to give rise to a new wave of progressive ideas for our future. You're wrong about Nigerians though. All Nigerians are not successful, because if that were the case poverty would not exist in Nigeria o that model of thinking is false. The difference between Nigerians and African-Americans solely rests on the environment. While African-Americans fought for freedom and subsequent equal rights, Nigerians were fighting for independence and for the betterment of economic growth. African-Americans were fighting several fronts for centuries.
According to some scholars 1970 can be the mark where we can actually say African-Americans are actually free in the sense of the word as well as the removal of laws that were unconstitutional. So during the fight, African-Americans fought for equality in many sectors of society and many who were working simply wanted jobs they couldn't get simply because of their skin complexion. The fight between Africans and African-Americans was different. The economic system between Nigeria and the United States was different. If I could create an analogy of the success of migrants let's say blacks and whites lined up at the line, the gun shoots but blacks have to wait 20 seconds before they could run not to mention carrying someone on their shoulder. After 20 seconds the black runner sprints, and before coming to the finish line propels the person (in this case the immigrant) off their shoulders to finish the race. This is how it is....
So although you see the success of migrants, it was the struggle of black Americans to make the economic success of migrants possible. Because if those four students who sat at a segregated table never sat down, we would still even til this day some laws placed where immigrants were not allowed. We probably would have eventually abolished these laws but it would have been later than 1970 which I doubt you would see the success of many immigrants of today. Now when some whites talk about "immigrants being more revered than even whites" I turn to the writer Clay Shirky would said:
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
|
|
anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
|
Post by anaxagoras on Mar 5, 2019 17:09:38 GMT
No, you are missing the point immensely. Early white settlers, colonialists or what not already had the privilege of land, economic growth, and power. their privilege was already established even you cannot deny that. You asked the question "If privilege exists, why did Elizabeth Warren pretend to be Native American to get ahead in her career?" the whole model of superiority in this case, white supremacy is about the demonstration of privilege through tactics to promote cultural superiority. In the case of the $5 Native American, white men wanted more than what they already had therefore they sought loopholes in transactions to acquire lands through deceptive means.
"These were opportunistic white men who wanted access to land or food rations,” said Gregory Smithers, associate professor of history at Virginia Commonwealth University. “These were people who were more than happy to exploit the Dawes Commission—and government agents, for $5, were willing to turn a blind eye to the graft and corruption."
There attempt was to gain more access and resources to which they have already had, in a lot of cases more than others.
That's an interesting way of twisting it. I wouldn't say white people were privileged to having land at all, they came and took it. Of course, any morally bankrupt people would indeed do such a thing, the irony is that this would done under the pretense of freedom of oppression and the pursuit of happiness. But it doesn't change the fact that at least subconsciously through the scientific pursuits of various European explorers that they compared their society with others under the belief that their "advanced" society was somehow better than those savages living in huts. The problem is not understanding cultures and while in the midst of cultures you perceive lesser than your own, there is this supremacist notion that your culture is somehow more advance and more divinely related than everyone else's. Case in point you see the young man that was killed by the indigenous tribe because he forgone all warnings (even when arrows were shot at him) and decided to bring Jesus to an indigenous people.
"If they had to come take something, it was never theirs and they never had the a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them to have any land at all."
Agree.
"We could go hypothetical and say "What if those people who came across the Atlantic Ocean were African instead of European?" Then the twist would be to a black privilege. We could say that, but that is not what happened in reality."
Privilege is not set to a specific people of certain skin color, that's extremely superficial Wrong. Privilege has been granted to a specific group of people. Are you not familiar with the U.S. laws that create segregation, and redlining? Housing discrimination? Do you not recount the story of "Black Wallstreet?" An affluent African-American community in Tulsa Oklahoma that was burned down in a racist riot. As I mentioned in another post to another poster, there were U.S. laws in place that restricted people of color to various avenues in society thereby giving primary benefits to Caucasians. Now I understand you might not want to acknowledge this but these are historical facts of exclusionary privilege, in this case, white privilege. Again going back to what I said before you're talking about U.S. laws that unconstitutionally held blacks down in place until the complete abolishment and amending of laws some as recent as 1970, before which primarily benefitted white people.
"nobody can deny that athletes within sports such as American football and basketball, being dominated by African Americans, are very very wealthy... are they privileged?"
No, they are talented. Sports at least for the most part is meritocratic, where your ability, not your ethnic makeup gets you into professional sports. Now we can get into the discussion of biology or what not, but if biology was a primary factor more talented kids in impoverished neighborhoods would be in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. But not everyone black can play professionally just as not everyone white cannot dunk."
"I'm going to school to be an aircraft mechanic.. I didn't have the privilege of just being hired without the getting training first, nobody did. There are black people in my school, we are all in the same boat."
I think you need to read a little bit more about what white privilege truly means:
"white privilege is not the assumption that everything a white person has accomplished is unearned; most white people who have reached a high level of success worked extremely hard to get there. Instead, white privilege should be viewed as a built-in advantage, separate from one’s level of income or effort.
Francis E. Kendall, author of Diversity in the Classroom and Understanding White Privilege: Creating Pathways to Authentic Relationships Across Race, comes close to giving us an encompassing definition: “having greater access to power and resources than people of color [in the same situation] do.”
Source:https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/fall-2018/what-is-white-privilege-really
"Anyone who pays any attention to history knows that people all over the world have done things like this.. "
Your point? My statement regarding the $5 Native American was to address your question about Elizabeth Warren.
"You can sit here and try to impose a guilt trip on white people if you wish, but I'd say it's very superficial and closed-minded to do so; the idea negates human history as a whole and concentrates on a race of people... it is something a racist would do." "Why do the white folk who deny white privilege think that way? The answer, I believe, is that American culture conditions white folk to not fully grasp how society privileges them. They are surrounded by the pieces of the puzzle. But they have been miseducated on how to complete the image that portrays their racial group in an unflattering light......
Feagin argues that American culture has taught whites to believe they represent the intellectual and cultural vanguard, to conclude that racial inequalities cannot be traced to their past or present behavior and to view their dominant status — their privilege — as natural and yet invisible."
Source:https://theundefeated.com/features/why-do-so-many-white-people-deny-the-existence-of-white-privilege/
Edit: I had to individually use manual quotation marks of what you said subsequent to the initial quote, because I am still new, I have yet to master the quote system here.
|
|
anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
|
Post by anaxagoras on Mar 5, 2019 17:18:12 GMT
This thread is fundamental proof that we still live in a society where there are some whites (not all) unwilling to acknowledge some inherent privileges and elitism. One of the most telling features about people in these types of discussions is what when some people respond they like to broaden the discussion by pointing out what "everyone else" did when the discussion isn't talking about everyone else, the OP clearly stated a question in relation specifically to whites. Somehow respondents want to talk about everyone else in the world, apparently this in an attempt to lesson the evils of colonial eurocentrism maybe?
ProTip: If you don't like the answer don't ask the question.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 6, 2019 1:34:11 GMT
That's an interesting way of twisting it. I wouldn't say white people were privileged to having land at all, they came and took it. Of course, any morally bankrupt people would indeed do such a thing, the irony is that this would done under the pretense of freedom of oppression and the pursuit of happiness. But it doesn't change the fact that at least subconsciously through the scientific pursuits of various European explorers that they compared their society with others under the belief that their "advanced" society was somehow better than those savages living in huts. The problem is not understanding cultures and while in the midst of cultures you perceive lesser than your own, there is this supremacist notion that your culture is somehow more advance and more divinely related than everyone else's. Case in point you see the young man that was killed by the indigenous tribe because he forgone all warnings (even when arrows were shot at him) and decided to bring Jesus to an indigenous people.
"If they had to come take something, it was never theirs and they never had the a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them to have any land at all."
Agree.
"We could go hypothetical and say "What if those people who came across the Atlantic Ocean were African instead of European?" Then the twist would be to a black privilege. We could say that, but that is not what happened in reality."
Privilege is not set to a specific people of certain skin color, that's extremely superficial Wrong. Privilege has been granted to a specific group of people. Are you not familiar with the U.S. laws that create segregation, and redlining? Housing discrimination? Do you not recount the story of "Black Wallstreet?" An affluent African-American community in Tulsa Oklahoma that was burned down in a racist riot. As I mentioned in another post to another poster, there were U.S. laws in place that restricted people of color to various avenues in society thereby giving primary benefits to Caucasians. Now I understand you might not want to acknowledge this but these are historical facts of exclusionary privilege, in this case, white privilege. Again going back to what I said before you're talking about U.S. laws that unconstitutionally held blacks down in place until the complete abolishment and amending of laws some as recent as 1970, before which primarily benefitted white people.
"nobody can deny that athletes within sports such as American football and basketball, being dominated by African Americans, are very very wealthy... are they privileged?"
No, they are talented. Sports at least for the most part is meritocratic, where your ability, not your ethnic makeup gets you into professional sports. Now we can get into the discussion of biology or what not, but if biology was a primary factor more talented kids in impoverished neighborhoods would be in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. But not everyone black can play professionally just as not everyone white cannot dunk."
"I'm going to school to be an aircraft mechanic.. I didn't have the privilege of just being hired without the getting training first, nobody did. There are black people in my school, we are all in the same boat."
I think you need to read a little bit more about what white privilege truly means:
"white privilege is not the assumption that everything a white person has accomplished is unearned; most white people who have reached a high level of success worked extremely hard to get there. Instead, white privilege should be viewed as a built-in advantage, separate from one’s level of income or effort.
Francis E. Kendall, author of Diversity in the Classroom and Understanding White Privilege: Creating Pathways to Authentic Relationships Across Race, comes close to giving us an encompassing definition: “having greater access to power and resources than people of color [in the same situation] do.”
Source:https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/fall-2018/what-is-white-privilege-really
"Anyone who pays any attention to history knows that people all over the world have done things like this.. "
Your point? My statement regarding the $5 Native American was to address your question about Elizabeth Warren.
"You can sit here and try to impose a guilt trip on white people if you wish, but I'd say it's very superficial and closed-minded to do so; the idea negates human history as a whole and concentrates on a race of people... it is something a racist would do." "Why do the white folk who deny white privilege think that way? The answer, I believe, is that American culture conditions white folk to not fully grasp how society privileges them. They are surrounded by the pieces of the puzzle. But they have been miseducated on how to complete the image that portrays their racial group in an unflattering light......
Feagin argues that American culture has taught whites to believe they represent the intellectual and cultural vanguard, to conclude that racial inequalities cannot be traced to their past or present behavior and to view their dominant status — their privilege — as natural and yet invisible."
Source:https://theundefeated.com/features/why-do-so-many-white-people-deny-the-existence-of-white-privilege/
Edit: I had to individually use manual quotation marks of what you said subsequent to the initial quote, because I am still new, I have yet to master the quote system here.
Ah, yes, "various" explorers. Not every European. Again, I go back to what I said in my first post on this thread; There are evil people of every race, color, and creed. Hmm, was it ME who thought of the natives as savages living in huts? How old do you think I am? Should I feel guilty for the thoughts and actions of people I never knew and had no direct relation to? Do you think their ideals are inherent in the "white" DNA? Your case in point isn't what I actually see; you never bothered to ask me what I think about what some Europeans did to some of the native Americans. Oh, great. Then you agree that those who exploited the Dawes Commission never had a privilege to any land at all. I mean after all, if one needs to exploit something it clearly shows one never had a privilege. Oh, okay. So do you agree that there is a twist in making white people seem like they have a privilege when they actually don't? This was almost 100 years ago. These laws you are talking about don't exist anymore. I have no issue acknowledging what happened, but am I supposed to feel guilty for something some people I don't know did to them? I didn't do it and I don't condone it. You might be able to make the argument that some kind of white privilege did exist, but it no longer exists. So far, all you have brought up are past events and incidents. There is nothing going on today that would have one believe white people have a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them. Actually, everything today is meritocratic. If that weren't true, then why do we have black people running for and becoming president of the US, black congressmen and women, black teachers, black police officers, black lawyers, black bus drivers, black business owners, black doctors, etc.? All of them, just like myself going to school to be an aircraft mechanic, had to work hard to get those positions. I, being white, was never handed anything as a privilege. My parents didn't buy me my first car, but I know a few black people whose parents did buy them their first car. My parents didn't buy me my first cell phone, but I know a few black people whose parents did buy them their first cell phone. My parents didn't pay for my college tuition, I worked in the military for 4 years and for my service I earned the GI Bill, as did others(who were black) that I served with, and again, I know a few black people whose parents paid for their college tuition. Okay, you haven't proven this to be true. You're using past events and incidents to say that all white people have a built in advantage... what advantage? What advantage to do I have, because of my skin color, over any of the people of other races around me? Please explain what advantage I have because of my skin color. All you have done is quote opinions from people who believe the same as you. Show the proof that I have an advantage because of my skin color.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 6, 2019 1:51:24 GMT
This thread is fundamental proof that we still live in a society where there are some whites (not all) unwilling to acknowledge some inherent privileges and elitism. One of the most telling features about people in these types of discussions is what when some people respond they like to broaden the discussion by pointing out what "everyone else" did when the discussion isn't talking about everyone else, the OP clearly stated a question in relation specifically to whites. Somehow respondents want to talk about everyone else in the world, apparently this in an attempt to lesson the evils of colonial eurocentrism maybe?
ProTip: If you don't like the answer don't ask the question. I think what this thread is really showing is that some people can look at everything in history as a whole and realize that evil people have put themselves in positions to have a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them... but there are some people out there who want to guilt trip a specific group of people into thinking they have a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them over everyone else because of things that happened in the past that have nothing to do with them.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Mar 6, 2019 6:24:23 GMT
Y'all know that skin color is based on how much a region is exposed to the sun so in reality with equal amount of sun we are identical in skin color, dudes and others. So quit fighting your own people.
|
|
Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
|
Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 6, 2019 6:26:01 GMT
The problem of this system being a white supremacist society that oppresses minorities is that many minorities are far more successful a revered than whites especially Jews and Asians who are regarded as smarter and harder working than whites because of their race. Nigerian and Caribbean blacks are also far richer and more successful than whites on average despite this system supposedly being rigged against them. The reason that some races and ethnic groups are more successful than others in the USA is that the United States is a meritocracy where generally the most intelligent, hardworking, and talented people get ahead and some cultures value these things or discourage them in varying degrees. The reason that Nigerian blacks are successful and African American blacks are not is that in Nigerian culture you are either 1. a doctor 2. a lawyer 3. an engineer 4. a disgrace. Black Americans, on the other hand, have a culture that worships violence, laziness, and ignorance. I went to school with the black kids all through high school and I've experienced this first hand. If a black kid were to show any interest in intellectual pursuits or his academic standing he would be accused of "acting white." On top of that many of them had criminal records in their teens, were using drugs, and reacted to any perceived slight with violence. Their women were promiscuous and many of them had babies in their early teens. If you asked the black males what they wanted to do with their life they wanted to be a rapper or play basketball. To not be poor in this country you have to do three things 1. not have babies out of wedlock 2. finish high school 3. hold a job and keep it. Many African Americans cannot seem to do one of these three things. On top of that, the men have a tendency to impregnate the women and then skip town leaving their children in an often abusive fatherless upbringing. I've been around African Americans my whole life and many of them are great people that I love dearly but the problems I mention, I've seen first hand and they are pervasive and need to be honestly discussed if there is any chance to improve the situation. Saying, "I can't get ahead because of white people," will solve nothing and is self-defeating in the end. Telling their children that lie will only serve to hold them back when they have so much potential. The reason many migrants whether they're migrants of color is because of the actions of the civil rights movement. Sure, you can attribute to culture and how certain immigrant cultures flourish economically and academically, but this is largely due to the actions of the civil rights movement. According to an online article by "Facing South," it exclaims that "congress passed the Immigration Act of 1917, effectively banning Asian, Mexican and Mediterranean people from entering the United States, along with the poor, political radicals and those with mental or physical disabilities." It further adds:
"Seven years later, Congress passed the Immigration Act of 1924, also known as the Asian Exclusion Act. The law created a quota system that prioritized immigrants from Northern and Western Europe, drastically restricted immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe and Africa, and completely banned Arabs, Asians and Indians. The law's stated purpose was to "preserve the idea of American homogeneity."
Source:https://www.facingsouth.org/2017/02/how-civil-rights-movement-opened-door-immigrants-color
I think unfortunately these so-called "model minorities" forget that these laws were in place to mitigate their entry for the purposes of preserving "white identity" another element of "white elitism."
It was not the immigrant, but four black college students who sat at a segregated table that spurred the civil rights movement which "brought down Jim Crow and led to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965." What made successive head way for immigrants who did in fact flourish in the sciences or what not, was congress passing the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, abolishing the race-based immigration quota system and replacing it with a system that prioritized refugees, people with special skills, and those with family members living in the United States. It also forbade discrimination in the issuance of immigrant visas on the basis of race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence."
Regardless of their success, in many parts of the United States there are still whites who still view them as inferior, and this extends even in the elevated circles of our society. We can definitely see an example in Obama's presidency in the birther movement. The removal of unconstitutional laws just means it levels the playing field in some which is only more so going to give rise to a new wave of progressive ideas for our future. You're wrong about Nigerians though. All Nigerians are not successful, because if that were the case poverty would not exist in Nigeria o that model of thinking is false. The difference between Nigerians and African-Americans solely rests on the environment. While African-Americans fought for freedom and subsequent equal rights, Nigerians were fighting for independence and for the betterment of economic growth. African-Americans were fighting several fronts for centuries.
According to some scholars 1970 can be the mark where we can actually say African-Americans are actually free in the sense of the word as well as the removal of laws that were unconstitutional. So during the fight, African-Americans fought for equality in many sectors of society and many who were working simply wanted jobs they couldn't get simply because of their skin complexion. The fight between Africans and African-Americans was different. The economic system between Nigeria and the United States was different. If I could create an analogy of the success of migrants let's say blacks and whites lined up at the line, the gun shoots but blacks have to wait 20 seconds before they could run not to mention carrying someone on their shoulder. After 20 seconds the black runner sprints, and before coming to the finish line propels the person (in this case the immigrant) off their shoulders to finish the race. This is how it is....
So although you see the success of migrants, it was the struggle of black Americans to make the economic success of migrants possible. Because if those four students who sat at a segregated table never sat down, we would still even til this day some laws placed where immigrants were not allowed. We probably would have eventually abolished these laws but it would have been later than 1970 which I doubt you would see the success of many immigrants of today. Now when some whites talk about "immigrants being more revered than even whites" I turn to the writer Clay Shirky would said:
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
You've made my argument for me. I can deny none of this and believe all of it is true and white privilege will still be a fairytale. What you've stated is that in fact there used to be legalized white privilege in the form of segregation and immigration controls but African Americans marched and worked to end it in 1970. And now because of their efforts, BLACK PEOPLE from Nigeria, the Caribbean, and other Sub-Saharan African countries live better, make more money, and all around more successful than white Americans who supposedly have all the privilege in this supposedly anti-black white supremacist society. I live in South Carolina one the epicenters of slavery and segregation. If anyone should benefit from white privilege it would be the whites in my state. And yet the whites in my state are poor. Same with pretty much every other former slave state. I am a southerner. My people have no privilege and are because of our dark history, our poverty, and our traditional values and religion regarded as backward, lazy, inbred, racist, degenerate, unintelligent "white trash" by whites from the North and the West as well as Asians, and Jews, and African Americans for that matter. On top of that unlike blacks or any other minority, we are actually an acceptable target for bigotry and ethnic slurs by the rest of the nation. The terms, "redneck", "hillbilly", "white trash," "cousin ****er", are thrown around by everyone white, black, Asian, what have you like it is nothing. The term "racist redneck," is used unironically. Now if I were to say the words n i.gger, s.pic, chin.k, ki.ke, or even Wo.p, (I have to put a period on those words because they might be censored by the board), I would immediately be shamed by society. Despite what you seem to think racism against blacks is actually very taboo in our society and saying the N-word is a worse taboo than blaspheming God. You could say that you have "black privilege" in that regard. Of course, that would be ridiculous and I'm just being an arsehole when I say that but compare the lot of... I don't know Barack Obama (our former black president in this oh so hateful white supremacist society) to anyone living in my state's "corridor of shame" where the whites live in broken down trailers, are addicted to meth, and can't even read. Finally, I give you a simple challenge. Prove empirically that white privilege exists. Show me the law, show me the institution, show me anything that shows that our societal structure is biased against blacks. And why are those insidious structures so helpless at keeping blacks out of the top governmental agencies and other elite positions of our country... Y'know like the supreme court, Congress, the Senate, the Presidency (the absolute pinnacle of achievement and power in our society incidentally), the school board, governorships, judgeships etc. And why does this white privilage not seem to stop Nigerians, and Carribbean blacks from achieving more than whites?
|
|
anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
|
Post by anaxagoras on Mar 6, 2019 15:17:59 GMT
This thread is fundamental proof that we still live in a society where there are some whites (not all) unwilling to acknowledge some inherent privileges and elitism. One of the most telling features about people in these types of discussions is what when some people respond they like to broaden the discussion by pointing out what "everyone else" did when the discussion isn't talking about everyone else, the OP clearly stated a question in relation specifically to whites. Somehow respondents want to talk about everyone else in the world, apparently this in an attempt to lesson the evils of colonial eurocentrism maybe?
ProTip: If you don't like the answer don't ask the question. I think what this thread is really showing is that some people can look at everything in history as a whole and realize that evil people have put themselves in positions to have a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them... but there are some people out there who want to guilt trip a specific group of people into thinking they have a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them over everyone else because of things that happened in the past that have nothing to do with them. But this isn't about everyone. Again you're using the "whataboutism" argument and this thread isn't about what everyone else did. Your continual denial is the reason why racism persist in the United States and why blacks find very few white allies.
|
|
anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
|
Post by anaxagoras on Mar 6, 2019 15:50:07 GMT
" You've made my argument for me." No I haven't, but before I respond further consider nobody is hospitable enough to tell a new comer how to break posts down individual using the quote system I have to manually quote you in boldI can deny none of this and believe all of it is true and white privilege will still be a fairytale.Of course you deny white privilege to be a fairytale. What you've stated is that in fact there used to be legalized white privilege in the form of segregation and immigration controls but African Americans marched and worked to end it in 1970. And now because of their efforts, BLACK PEOPLE from Nigeria, the Caribbean, and other Sub-Saharan African countries live better, make more money, and all around more successful than white Americans who supposedly have all the privilege in this supposedly anti-black white supremacist society.False. I gave you the historical blueprint how immigrants from different countries came over here and have since became successful. Remember, not all immigrants are doctors, lawyers, or any other affluent professional. All Nigerians are not successful and considering they have a low population in the United States, of course you may find some successful Nigerians, Asians, and other members of the immigrant community who come to the United States. But on matters of being affluent and matters of power who is still the most revered class of people? Caucasians. The top 1% are still white. You still have white owners of major sports teams. You still have Eurocentric standards of beauty even today. So regards of which successful migrant community you'd like to point out, white is still the standard of beauty and success. If anyone should benefit from white privilege it would be the whites in my state. And yet the whites in my state are poor. Same with pretty much every other former slave state. Look, and I'm really tired of repeating myself here so I'll just leave this quote to help you understand white privilege: "And white privilege is not the assumption that everything a white person has accomplished is unearned; most white people who have reached a high level of success worked extremely hard to get there. Instead, white privilege should be viewed as a built-in advantage, separate from one’s level of income or effort." Source:https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/fall-2018/what-is-white-privilege-really I am a southerner.Of course you are, which is why I'm not surprised at your responses. On top of that unlike blacks or any other minority, we are actually an acceptable target for bigotry and ethnic slurs by the rest of the nation. The terms, "redneck", "hillbilly", "white trash," "cousin ****er", are thrown around by everyone white, black, Asian, what have you like it is nothing. The term "racist redneck," is used unironically.You have to excuse all the dead souls who were robbed of their culture, language, tradition, families, country, pride, religion, tribe, and dignity, if they're not shedding one tear for you. Now if I were to say the words ni.gger, s.pic, chin.k, ki.ke, or even Wo.p, (I have to put a period on those words because they might be censored by the board), I would immediately be shamed by society.As you should because those words were not just words that were spoken, but were used to harm people over the course of centuries not on some online chat forum but in real life where people lost their lives in a system of white supremacy. I can still feel the fire of the burning cross from the story my mother told me regarding how the klan chased my grand-father out of his home. Despite what you seem to think racism against blacks is actually very taboo in our society and saying the N-word is a worse taboo than blaspheming God.We do not live in a post racial society and for certain according to some of my colleagues the south is very much racist which is why I refuse to go there less I go to jail. Some of my white colleagues from the south most notably Virginia and some from Alabama tell me there are still places in these states where they're still just as racist. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. There are still segregated places and perhaps to those people they don't see a problem because they're segregated. But that doesn't mean that there is no problem. where the whites live in broken down trailers, are addicted to meth, and can't even read.Sounds like a personal problem.Finally, I give you a simple challenge. Prove empirically that white privilege exists.Which proof would you like past or present? Show me the law, show me the institution, show me anything that shows that our societal structure is biased against blacks.Sounds like you have some cognitive dissonance going on here. The thread is about showing white elitism. I've done that. Now you want me to show how society is against blacks. Look, I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. How about this because in the interest of discussion and to prevent wasting your time and mine, how about I give you an article which is seven pages. It was written by a white woman who talks about white privilege. I'll give you the link: www.racialequitytools.org/resourcefiles/mcintosh.pdf When you're done come back and we can discuss this in conjunction to real world examples I can supply.
|
|
anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
|
Post by anaxagoras on Mar 6, 2019 15:50:57 GMT
Y'all know that skin color is based on how much a region is exposed to the sun so in reality with equal amount of sun we are identical in skin color, dudes and others. So quit fighting your own people. Huh?
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Mar 6, 2019 16:03:02 GMT
Y'all know that skin color is based on how much a region is exposed to the sun so in reality with equal amount of sun we are identical in skin color, dudes and others. So quit fighting your own people. Huh? You didn't read science articles that we get our skin color based on sun exposure? So if we all got the same sun amount then we'd look all the same.
|
|
anaxagoras
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 13
Meta-Ethnicity: Sith Lord
Ethnicity: African-American
Country: United States
Region: California
Location: Los Angeles
Ancestry: African
Taxonomy: Homo Sapien
Y-DNA: Don't know
mtDNA: Don't know
Politics: Progressive/Liberal
Religion: Agonistic-Theist
Relationship Status: Single
Hero: Genghis Khan
Age: 36
Philosophy: Kalam
|
Post by anaxagoras on Mar 6, 2019 16:23:33 GMT
Ah, yes, "various" explorers. Not every European. Again, I go back to what I said in my first post on this thread; There are evil people of every race, color, and creed. I never said every European I said various "European explorers" I can also mention various European countries as well. Hmm, was it ME who thought of the natives as savages living in huts? How old do you think I am? Should I feel guilty for the thoughts and actions of people I never knew and had no direct relation to? Do you think their ideals are inherent in the "white" DNA? Your case in point isn't what I actually see; you never bothered to ask me what I think about what some Europeans did to some of the native Americans. I never implied you specifically, I was referring to the psychological framework of colonial explorers and why would you want me to ask you what early white settlers did to the Native Americans? Why is that pertinent for this topic as the evidence of the end result ought to be clear? you're really sounding confusing. Oh, great. Then you agree that those who exploited the Dawes Commission never had a privilege to any land at all. I mean after all, if one needs to exploit something it clearly shows one never had a privilege. Your above comment made no absolute sense. The link to the article I gave you talked about the exploitation to acquire land. Just because you have privilege doesn't mean you wont exploit loopholes to gain additional benefits. I was agreeing with you on the general principle that early settlers didn't have a right or some special dispensation to take land or kill people. However early settlers as well as other European colonialists believe they have the right I mean, the "Manifest Destiny" is a prime example of this. Oh, okay. So do you agree that there is a twist in making white people seem like they have a privilege when they actually don't? No I don't agree stop playing with words. I clearly say we could think about the hypothetical, but it is only a hypothetical and not a reflection of what actually exists, you are really trying to insult my intelligence by thinking you're clever here. This was almost 100 years ago. These laws you are talking about don't exist anymore. I have no issue acknowledging what happened, but am I supposed to feel guilty for something some people I don't know did to them? I didn't do it and I don't condone it. You might be able to make the argument that some kind of white privilege did exist, but it no longer exists. So far, all you have brought up are past events and incidents. There is nothing going on today that would have one believe white people have a special right, advantage, or immunity granted to them. 1970 is not a past event that is quite recent. I was born in 1982 so it was some 12 years before me. I was merely talking about the entire history of slavery (and its abolishment) not to mention the reconstruction period which was 10 to 12 years, then Jim Crow which lasted from 1877 to 1950 (over 70 years! that is a long time for Jim Crow). I'm talking about 1970's being the decade where black people were actually free from the legal constraints of unconstitutional laws that benefitted white people. 1950 is not considered a "past event" in the sense of residual influence. that is in the lifetime of my parents and perhaps your parents. Just because now that these laws past, then suddenly white privilege evaporates. No, it doesn't. It's still there, and it still exists. Actually, everything today is meritocratic. If that weren't true, then why do we have black people running for and becoming president of the US, black congressmen and women, black teachers, black police officers, black lawyers, black bus drivers, black business owners, black doctors, etc.? All of them, just like myself going to school to be an aircraft mechanic, had to work hard to get those positions. I, being white, was never handed anything as a privilege. My parents didn't buy me my first car, but I know a few black people whose parents did buy them their first car. My parents didn't buy me my first cell phone, but I know a few black people whose parents did buy them their first cell phone. My parents didn't pay for my college tuition, I worked in the military for 4 years and for my service I earned the GI Bill, as did others(who were black) that I served with, and again, I know a few black people whose parents paid for their college tuition. Sigh....Oh you were a soldier? Hmm as a soldier how do you feel about this regarding the treatment of Germna POW's versus black Americans "African American field hands were painfully aware that white Americans treated Nazi prisoners far better than they did people of color. African Americans waited on POWs when they were transported in Pullman cars to their camps, and prisoners were also allowed to eat in whites-only cafeterias" I recall the stories of black American soldiers having to ride behind white German POW's on the train....Now for the rest of what you wrote I could easily dismantle it its just that I'm really starting to see this as a back and forth with you with no open-mindedness on your part. Clearly the idea of me discussing white privilege to you bothers you. Okay, you haven't proven this to be true. You're using past events and incidents to say that all white people have a built in advantage... what advantage? What advantage to do I have, because of my skin color, over any of the people of other races around me? I have used past events I've used events in our parents history. Here I invite you to look at this video by this cop:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HyKlFUMBiA&t=29s Please explain what advantage I have because of my skin color. All you have done is quote opinions from people who believe the same as you. Show the proof that I have an advantage because of my skin color.I just already have shown you several examples please don't waste my time.
|
|