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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 14, 2018 1:46:51 GMT
I am not exactly sure if they're called sects or denominations or whatever. But I wasn't aware that there were divisions in Islam as in Christianity until recently.
So before I asked my question I want to explain how this question was formed first. I was told that Muslims dislike the Christian bible because it has been rewritten so many times and they think the real meaning is lost and that's why they think we have many denominations in Christianity (which isn't the case at all). So, if the Quran was written perfectly unlike the bible and preserved well unlike the bible (as they claim, of course).
So, why do you have denomations and sects too like Christians? My answer to it is the bible and Quran say only one thing whether rewritten or not but people just like to form their own sects from the origional way of following what it says to do in their holy book. Shrug
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 15:35:47 GMT
The division on Sunni and Muslims took place after Muhammad's death as was rather political, about whether Muhammad chose a successor or not. Later other differences occured and there are different schools of jurisprudence, based on the interpretation. The text of the Quran is the same, regardless of the branch. But different people choose different interpretation, at the same time saying, that what is written in the Quran is true. Them choosing their own interpretation is the same as Christians do to form denominations. So what's the difference with them picking on the Christian text meaning through time when they do the same in their religion with their text? It seems hypocritical to me Shrug Very well said !!! Aren't you so bright :-) no Muslim is following the word of God . they are programmed in such a way rather then hypocritical . It's more messed up in the Muslim world . There are so many different types of mosques for ton of different sect . There is a mosque by my name across the street . No idea which sect is that for . Shrug
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 15:46:11 GMT
The division on Sunni and Muslims took place after Muhammad's death as was rather political, about whether Muhammad chose a successor or not. Later other differences occured and there are different schools of jurisprudence, based on the interpretation. The text of the Quran is the same, regardless of the branch. But different people choose different interpretation, at the same time saying, that what is written in the Quran is true. Them choosing their own interpretation is the same as Christians do to form denominations. So what's the difference with them picking on the Christian text meaning through time when they do the same in their religion with their text? It seems hypocritical to me Shrug Just to give you account of few things. There is no such thing as an annual pilgrimage they way they perform circling 7 times . According to real message of Quran you had place an annual general meeting to restore matters . Lesson learnt and for the improvement of the region in terms of socio economic welfare Mosques instead of doing yoga 5 times a day was suppose to be a community center for the same aim Fasting is not to remain hungry for one month . But to value hard times and learn from it
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 16, 2018 15:53:47 GMT
Them choosing their own interpretation is the same as Christians do to form denominations. So what's the difference with them picking on the Christian text meaning through time when they do the same in their religion with their text? It seems hypocritical to me Shrug Just to give you account of few things. There is no such thing as an annual pilgrimage they way they perform circling 7 times . According to real message of Quran you had place an annual general meeting to restore matters . Lesson learnt and for the improvement of the region in terms of socio economic welfare Mosques instead of doing yoga 5 times a day was suppose to be a community center for the same aim Fasting is not to remain hungry for one month . But to value hard times and learn from it So yoga replaced that? Isn't that an abomination?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 16:09:35 GMT
Just to give you account of few things. There is no such thing as an annual pilgrimage they way they perform circling 7 times . According to real message of Quran you had place an annual general meeting to restore matters . Lesson learnt and for the improvement of the region in terms of socio economic welfare Mosques instead of doing yoga 5 times a day was suppose to be a community center for the same aim Fasting is not to remain hungry for one month . But to value hard times and learn from it So yoga replaced that? Isn't that an abomination?! Yoga is good for body and they also recite some statements which they have no clue about
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 16:10:36 GMT
Just to give you account of few things. There is no such thing as an annual pilgrimage they way they perform circling 7 times . According to real message of Quran you had place an annual general meeting to restore matters . Lesson learnt and for the improvement of the region in terms of socio economic welfare Mosques instead of doing yoga 5 times a day was suppose to be a community center for the same aim Fasting is not to remain hungry for one month . But to value hard times and learn from it So yoga replaced that? Isn't that an abomination?! Well they had to come up with something . So why not yoga .
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ajay0
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Post by ajay0 on Sept 16, 2018 16:14:27 GMT
I am not exactly sure if they're called sects or denominations or whatever. But I wasn't aware that there were divisions in Islam as in Christianity until recently. So before I asked my question I want to explain how this question was formed first. I was told that Muslims dislike the Christian bible because it has been rewritten so many times and they think the real meaning is lost and that's why they think we have many denominations in Christianity (which isn't the case at all). So, if the Quran was written perfectly unlike the bible and preserved well unlike the bible (as they claim, of course). So, why do you have denomations and sects too like Christians? My answer to it is the bible and Quran say only one thing whether rewritten or not but people just like to form their own sects from the origional way of following what it says to do in their holy book.
Imho, the times and context determines the nature of sects being created.
The Shias insisted on Ali being the next caliph and the rightful successor to prophet Muhammad as opposed to the sunnis who consider Abu Bakr as the first caliph and successor to Muhammad.
The Ahmediyyas founded by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed are devoted to scholarship and abstinence from violence. The sole Pakistani and Muslim nobel prize winner in the sciences, Abdus Salam was an Ahmediyya.
The mystical sufis in turn use music and dance as ways to increase love for God as opposed to the conservative muslims who scorn such practices.
So each sect focusses on a certain aspect such as political succession, or mysticism or scholarship and highlights them, and their emergence corresponds to the times and evolution of the religion, imho.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 16:46:42 GMT
What we see in Islam today is not what prophet taught them. Islam in reality is supposed to be a political and was created to make the kingdom of God, that's why he called himself the chosen one.
The banu qureshi tribes were different. Only the descendants of prophets were real Muslims.
And now in today's time, these Indian Muslims even promote the name of Allah in songs and media, which prophet had called as haraam or forbidden.
Poverty or problems of Muslim nation or Muslim people has nothing to do with teaching of islam.
The elite Muslim controls all these. Because even the elites is Muslims are mostly rich business people so they are creating their own hegemony
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 16, 2018 17:21:34 GMT
I am not exactly sure if they're called sects or denominations or whatever. But I wasn't aware that there were divisions in Islam as in Christianity until recently. So before I asked my question I want to explain how this question was formed first. I was told that Muslims dislike the Christian bible because it has been rewritten so many times and they think the real meaning is lost and that's why they think we have many denominations in Christianity (which isn't the case at all). So, if the Quran was written perfectly unlike the bible and preserved well unlike the bible (as they claim, of course). So, why do you have denomations and sects too like Christians? My answer to it is the bible and Quran say only one thing whether rewritten or not but people just like to form their own sects from the origional way of following what it says to do in their holy book. Imho, the times and context determines the nature of sects being created. The Shias insisted on Ali being the next caliph and the rightful successor to prophet Muhammad as opposed to the sunnis who consider Abu Bakr as the first caliph and successor to Muhammad.
The Ahmediyyas founded by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed are devoted to scholarship and abstinence from violence. The sole Pakistani and Muslim nobel prize winner in the sciences, Abdus Salam was an Ahmediyya. The mystical sufis in turn use music and dance as ways to increase love for God as opposed to the conservative muslims who scorn such practices. So each sect focusses on a certain aspect such as political succession, or mysticism or scholarship and highlights them, and their emergence corresponds to the times and evolution of the religion, imho.
Did Muhammad intend on their being different sects from his writing? If not then no one is following him basically Shrug What we see in Islam today is not what prophet taught them. Islam in reality is supposed to be a political and was created to make the kingdom of God, that's why he called himself the chosen one. The banu qureshi tribes were different. Only the descendants of prophets were real Muslims. And now in today's time, these Indian Muslims even promote the name of Allah in songs and media, which prophet had called as haraam or forbidden. Poverty or problems of Muslim nation or Muslim people has nothing to do with teaching of islam. The elite Muslim controls all these. Because even the elites is Muslims are mostly rich business people so they are creating their own hegemony So if no one is following what the prophet taught them then why are they still claiming to follow him?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 17:54:40 GMT
What we see in Islam today is not what prophet taught them. Islam in reality is supposed to be a political and was created to make the kingdom of God, that's why he called himself the chosen one. The banu qureshi tribes were different. Only the descendants of prophets were real Muslims. And now in today's time, these Indian Muslims even promote the name of Allah in songs and media, which prophet had called as haraam or forbidden. Poverty or problems of Muslim nation or Muslim people has nothing to do with teaching of islam. The elite Muslim controls all these. Because even the elites is Muslims are mostly rich business people so they are creating their own hegemony There is nothing wrong with music . It's a made up stuff like rest . There is music in water shores . There is music in birds chirping. Music is a blessing of life .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 18:00:27 GMT
Imho, the times and context determines the nature of sects being created. The Shias insisted on Ali being the next caliph and the rightful successor to prophet Muhammad as opposed to the sunnis who consider Abu Bakr as the first caliph and successor to Muhammad.
The Ahmediyyas founded by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed are devoted to scholarship and abstinence from violence. The sole Pakistani and Muslim nobel prize winner in the sciences, Abdus Salam was an Ahmediyya. The mystical sufis in turn use music and dance as ways to increase love for God as opposed to the conservative muslims who scorn such practices. So each sect focusses on a certain aspect such as political succession, or mysticism or scholarship and highlights them, and their emergence corresponds to the times and evolution of the religion, imho.
Did Muhammad intend on their being different sects from his writing? If not then no one is following him basically Shrug What we see in Islam today is not what prophet taught them. Islam in reality is supposed to be a political and was created to make the kingdom of God, that's why he called himself the chosen one. The banu qureshi tribes were different. Only the descendants of prophets were real Muslims. And now in today's time, these Indian Muslims even promote the name of Allah in songs and media, which prophet had called as haraam or forbidden. Poverty or problems of Muslim nation or Muslim people has nothing to do with teaching of islam. The elite Muslim controls all these. Because even the elites is Muslims are mostly rich business people so they are creating their own hegemony So if no one is following what the prophet taught them then why are they still claiming to follow him? No! I already gave an answer to your inquiring mind. Every sect is made to belive it's the right one . When infact none is . They think they are following it . But they are not
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ajay0
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Post by ajay0 on Sept 16, 2018 18:26:59 GMT
Imho, the times and context determines the nature of sects being created. The Shias insisted on Ali being the next caliph and the rightful successor to prophet Muhammad as opposed to the sunnis who consider Abu Bakr as the first caliph and successor to Muhammad.
The Ahmediyyas founded by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed are devoted to scholarship and abstinence from violence. The sole Pakistani and Muslim nobel prize winner in the sciences, Abdus Salam was an Ahmediyya. The mystical sufis in turn use music and dance as ways to increase love for God as opposed to the conservative muslims who scorn such practices. So each sect focusses on a certain aspect such as political succession, or mysticism or scholarship and highlights them, and their emergence corresponds to the times and evolution of the religion, imho.
Did Muhammad intend on their being different sects from his writing? If not then no one is following him basically Truth is of a dynamic nature, and is not static. This is how I interpret the evolution of the Sufi, Ahmediyya sects in time and space. Same goes for the Bahai religion which came later on.
The shia and sunni sects origin however seems to be of political nature, and has nothing to do with the teachings of the quran. This could be the reason for the intersectarian violence between the two.
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 16, 2018 19:40:56 GMT
Did Muhammad intend on their being different sects from his writing? If not then no one is following him basically Truth is of a dynamic nature, and is not static. This is how I interpret the evolution of the Sufi, Ahmediyya sects in time and space. Same goes for the Bahai religion which came later on.
The shia and sunni sects origin however seems to be of political nature, and has nothing to do with the teachings of the quran. This could be the reason for the intersectarian violence between the two. Why won't they change what they call themselves since they don't follow the teaching? It gives a false impression. Shrug
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Post by fschmidt on Sept 16, 2018 19:41:40 GMT
So, why do you have denomations and sects too like Christians? I will just use the word "sect" because I want one word. But what exactly does this word mean? In Islam there is a difference between schools of thought versus sects. Different schools of thought can tolerate each other. Different sects can't. And this is why the Quran warns against sects, because the fundamental cause of sects is intolerance to different interpretations. Sects are simply the product of human stupidity, closed-mindedness, and intolerance.
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 16, 2018 21:25:58 GMT
So, why do you have denomations and sects too like Christians? I will just use the word "sect" because I want one word. But what exactly does this word mean? In Islam there is a difference between schools of thought versus sects. Different schools of thought can tolerate each other. Different sects can't. And this is why the Quran warns against sects, because the fundamental cause of sects is intolerance to different interpretations. Sects are simply the product of human stupidity, closed-mindedness, and intolerance. So then according to you does Islam have sects (human stupidity, close-mindedness, and intolerance) or does it have denominations (not sure what definition you want to use here) or what do you call the differences?
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Post by fschmidt on Sept 16, 2018 23:06:33 GMT
So then according to you does Islam have sects (human stupidity, close-mindedness, and intolerance) or does it have denominations ( what definition you want to use here) or what do you call the differences? For this discussion I will define sects as groups that can't tolerate each other, and denominations as groups that can tolerate each other. Note that denominations doesn't imply ecumenicalism which is insanity at the other extreme. Islam today is a lot like medieval Christianity with clear intolerant sects. Christianity today mostly has denominations. The only sect I can think of is those parts of Orthodox Christianity that can't tolerate other forms of Christianity.
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