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Post by oluwamayokun on Nov 7, 2017 6:18:32 GMT
Does Satan really exit?
How did God and Satan come into existence
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Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 8, 2017 22:11:38 GMT
According to many theologian the Book of Job is allegorical , and for others this history was allowed by God as an example to the people in obedience to him! I support the second version!
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 10, 2017 5:35:18 GMT
Yeah Job was recorded as a real person in the Bible and he was tested in his faith since anyone can be tested too! Nothing usual about the book in my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2017 12:38:26 GMT
Does Satan (in religions that have a fundament in the Old Testament) actually tries to fight God, or human instead? Why humans? He is stronger than humans in every way unless those humans are under God's protection. He is just trying to win humans over (to take souls) so they will not be saved and end up in the lake of fire. So, he is just fighting with God for souls while still fighting to replace God (which is why he tempted Jesus to sin to try to beat God at any chance he could but God is too smart for him). But the fight that started is still in heaven. Lucifer rebels against God and wanted to replace Him as Isaiah chapter 14:12-13 mentions, "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God. I will set my throne on high." But instead his pride got him kicked out of heaven and yet to this day he's fighting for what he always wanted despite miserably failing. So, hope I understood you well enough to respond correctly. Of course, yes. Well, book of Job also shows how satan is weak and needs God's permission to even do anything! So, how he plans to become God while not being able to do anything despite God's approval is just his delusions  . But, yes, he does make deals. Satan wants things but He needs God's permission and timing approval. So, Satan wanted all this bad stuff for Job to tell God that Job will hate and reject Him and the soul will belong to satan. God told him Job is His but if Satan wants to see for himself he can do whatever he wanted but not kill Job. See, God laid out the rules since Satan can't do nothing himself otherwise. Yes, he wants them all in the lake of fire. He will use trickery or any means possible to succeed. As, I said above he rebels to become God and is fighting God for souls despite being blind that yet he can win win most humans he can't win against God or His people. Otherwise, he and God do communicate fine as in Job's story because little Lucifer always needs permission Yeah, I just stick to what's in the bible so no comment there. :/ I can't figure out how quoting works here, so I will make the fragments of your post more visible in the other way. Why humans? He is stronger than humans in every way unless those humans are under God's protection.Because, according to the Bible, there are only humans to fight with. There are also angels, and they supposedly switch sides as well. In Islam there are also djinns. And there is God, who by default is stronger than any of the fallen angels, as he is "almighty". The devils aren't. He is just trying to win humans over (to take souls) so they will not be saved and end up in the lake of fire. So, he is just fighting with God for souls while still fighting to replace God (which is why he tempted Jesus to sin to try to beat God at any chance he could but God is too smart for him)Or, he is trying to tempt humans, so their souls won't enter Heaven, as they do not deserve it. Hell is supposed to be a place of an eternal torment, the fire seems to be rather a metaphor and it's all about "lacking God" or something like that. Human souls are not becoming the devils in Hell, it's like a prisoner in prison would automatically be a prison guard. If there would be something like "Ragnarok", do you think human souls are going to fight in any way? But the fight that started is still in heaven. Lucifer rebels against God and wanted to replace Him as Isaiah chapter 14:12-13 mentions, "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God. I will set my throne on high."
To be rebel against Abrahamic God, everything one has to do is to just use free will. This passage is by many considered to not refer to Lucifer, but to a certain human. How could Lucifer "lay the nations low" - what nations? There were no nations, when Lucifer were supposed to be kicked out. On the other hand, when you'll read what's written few passages before, you will see this: "That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", Isaiah 14:4 After this whole text, which includes your passage, is addressed to the Babylonian king, not Lucifer. And it refers to another ruler (not the Babylonian king, but someone else who fell), due to the fact that in the whole text there are mentioned Lebanese cider trees, many people suggest it's about a king of Tyre. Of course, yes. Well, book of Job also shows how satan is weak and needs God's permission to even do anything! So, how he plans to become God while not being able to do anything despite God's approval is just his delusions  . So I'm sure you will agree with the statement which says, that the brightest and smartest of all angels is not so stupid to fight God.  But, yes, he does make deals. Satan wants things but He needs God's permission and timing approval.
Then defeating God would require God's permission, wouldn't it? So, Satan wanted all this bad stuff for Job to tell God that Job will hate and reject Him and the soul will belong to satan. God told him Job is His but if Satan wants to see for himself he can do whatever he wanted but not kill Job. See, God laid out the rules since Satan can't do nothing himself otherwise.Which supports what I said, that Satan "fights" with humans. It's not a direct fight of course, but what I mean is that his job is to make people turn away from God through sinning or anything else. It's not fighting against God, it's fighting against his creation (human) which Satan hates and despises. For that he was kicked out from Heaven. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 11, 2017 22:14:39 GMT
Because, according to the Bible, there are only humans to fight with. There are also angels, and they supposedly switch sides as well. In Islam there are also djinns. And there is God, who by default is stronger than any of the fallen angels, as he is "almighty". The devils aren't. First battle/war took place in heaven though so it did not involve humans. "Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. Revelation 12:7–10 " So Micheal, the belief is that his power was right below Lucifer's power fought him with the other good angels. So good versus bad fight. Then God interviewed and kicked Lucifer and his 1/3 of angels out of heaven since they rebelled. That is why Satan and his angels are also called the fallen angels or the demons now. In the end of the world there will be a continuation of this but Satan, his angels, and his people will be destroyed in the lake of fire for enternity and it will all end there. So, God casts him out from heaven during battle then in the end to cast to hell. That is the war/battle they have basically. But in between yeah it is mostly humans that are involved. Agree mostly. Satan is tempting humans like he did from day one with Eve to cause them to sin and take their souls to separate them from God. Then they will be in the lake of fire forever or prisoners. What is Radranok? But yeah I'm sure humans will try to fight God on judgement day not to end up in hell but who's stronger to make the final call? If this is what you mean by humans fighting. |
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God&Satan
Nov 12, 2017 7:48:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by oluwamayokun on Nov 12, 2017 7:48:57 GMT
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God&Satan
Nov 12, 2017 7:51:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by oluwamayokun on Nov 12, 2017 7:51:40 GMT
My question is why is satan trying to fight God when he is weaker than God? If you can't win a fight like that why even bother trying? Hmm. funny question Satan is also trying his best just to show his disciples how strong he his lolx |
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God&Satan
Nov 12, 2017 7:54:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by oluwamayokun on Nov 12, 2017 7:54:53 GMT
Ok here's my perspective. Both God and Satan exist. God was just always there and wasn't created like gold to get into science a bit. Gold is found in nature only. Satan was first created as an angel. A powerful and most beautiful of all angels to help God out. He was supposed to be God's helper with the one closest to God's power but Lucifer went nuts over all the power he had and wanted to reject God and make his one Kingdom. Therefore, Lucifer became satan and took his angel friends with him. My religious study there xD You're right! Satan wants to steal mankind from God in order to be in his place. God gave man a free choice between him and his enemy! God has no enemy dude lolx God loves everybody even the Satan too |
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 12, 2017 7:55:56 GMT
My question is why is satan trying to fight God when he is weaker than God? If you can't win a fight like that why even bother trying? Hmm. funny question Satan is also trying his best just to show his disciples how strong he his lolx He's so prideful and conceited I think . Or you disagree? |
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ewok
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Post by ewok on Nov 13, 2017 9:17:08 GMT
Lilth was made up to explain how women was created both at the same time as Adam from the mud and from one of his ribs. Does Satan exist? Let me answer that by asking another question. If God created Lucifer and God is all knowing. Why didn't he know that he had created Evil????
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ewok
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Post by ewok on Nov 13, 2017 9:20:33 GMT
Yeah Job was recorded as a real person in the Bible and he was tested in his faith since anyone can be tested too! Nothing usual about the book in my opinion. If you are an all powerful God why do you feel the need to test anyone. And surely you would know the future so there is no need to test because you will all ready know who will pass? |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 13, 2017 9:24:39 GMT
Lilth was made up to explain how women was created both at the same time as Adam from the mud and from one of his ribs. Does Satan exist? Let me answer that by asking another question. If God created Lucifer and God is all knowing. Why didn't he know that he had created Evil???? God wants his creation to have freedom of choice! It's very simple! |
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ewok
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Post by ewok on Nov 13, 2017 9:30:48 GMT
Then sends those ones who disagrres to eternel Damnation. Is that actually a choice? Sounds like blackmail to me.
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 13, 2017 9:31:03 GMT
Yeah Job was recorded as a real person in the Bible and he was tested in his faith since anyone can be tested too! Nothing usual about the book in my opinion. If you are an all powerful God why do you feel the need to test anyone. And surely you would know the future so there is no need to test because you will all ready know who will pass? No, I didn't mean God tested Job or I would use capital letter to refer to Him (I just meant it was a test to Job on his own abilities). God says in the Bible that He does not tempt anyone to see if they will sin. But we have our daily battles against sin as Christians and that is a test to us to see if we do well or not. God already knows of course but we cannot see the future so we live by testing ourselves to know how we do. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 13, 2017 9:35:03 GMT
Then sends those ones who disagrres to eternel Damnation. Is that actually a choice? Sounds like blackmail to me. No, it isn't like that. God told us in advance that life in this world isn't easy but we have free will to decide how we live it. So He sin sinful life leads to death (hell) and holy life to life (heaven). He even gave the Bible to inform us in detail so we are aware what choices lead to what to be nice and hope we choose the right path. Satan, of course, wouldn't want us near a bible nor would he care to inform us. So there is no blackmail just our choice. |
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ewok
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Post by ewok on Nov 13, 2017 10:43:51 GMT
Of course it is. If I say love me or you will suffer for eternity...that is blackmail. If he said please love me because of the beauty of my creation. Then that is a choice...You could be as free as you wish to make whatever choices you want, because you want too. Not because you will be punished if you do not.
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