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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 12, 2018 5:08:44 GMT
Ok, so I did a little study about how Muhammed started Islam and had some questions. Here's the story I found....
So the guy was a merchant and thought about spirituality a lot. So he had a normal job as most of us and focused on being a good person as I hope most of us do too. Next, he decided to go meditate in a cave. Why a cave? Was he a caveman? Seems odd but whatever to each his own. Then supposedly an angel named Gabriel appeared and told him to practice and teach compassion, honesty, and justice. And at that time women had few rights so he tried to make them equal before God with more rights. Then since he thought he was actually going mad, his wife convinced him he was a prophet and was his first convert. Kind of odd someone else telling you that you're a prophet since prophets knew they were and told others they were. But for Muhammad the prophet stuff worked backwards I guess. Shrug Anyway, so since he was illiterate and couldn't read or write he spoke everything by word of mouth mostly...and to his family. Not until much later did his followers write the Koran.
My questions. 1. Who picks an illiterate person to spread a message from God? That's like me using my kindergarten student over my high school student to deliver important announcements which I'd never do unless I wanted to embarrass myself. Moses knew measurements and could write.
2. If he was supposed to spread equality with males and females then why no equality? Women are killed in honor killings and not men. Where's the equality in this? I need to see hundreds or more dead male bodies.
3. Angel Gabriel told him that their god is the same one of Jacob and Jesus. So if their god is the OT god then their writtings would be together. All the OT prophets had their messages delivered and all written in OT. Where is the book of Muhammad in OT? After Micah somewhere?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 17, 2018 19:39:10 GMT
Yeah, I agree most religions are truly unreliable. 6 accounts? I don't even know that person so don't even know one account How did Luther save them? I'm not Catholic and I dislike Luther since he seemed only slightly different than Catholics so I didn't find a big change in him personally. But yeah often times followers change the religion that was handed down Sad God who moves ton of galaxies around, creator of the universe, felt so bothered from a little planet in the milky way galaxy that, he chose ton of people to fire upon earth. That please tell them I exist. That's how stupid a religion sounds like . God is self evident. Oh wait!, he even thought to shape shift in to a human because all he did before was not enough. What do you mean? People knew God existed from the beginning of the world and recorded things in scripture. So when Mary and Joseph heard the news they weren't surprised God existed. They were like, "Great. Then we do as you say." Shrug But your god version story is totally funny .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 19:43:13 GMT
As Frank said. OT was corrupted. They Made a final version in shape of Quran..that cannot be altered..
Quran disapproves all the previous revelation. Book superior to all the rest. So why would he be ever mentioned in it..
Lastly all the people u spoke of, were simply alive or passed before OT was launched. Muhammad wasn't even born then. Then how come he can ever be mentioned. Are we on the same page now?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 17, 2018 19:49:16 GMT
As Frank said. OT was corrupted. They Made a final version in shape of Quran..that cannot be altered.. Quran disapproves all the previous revelation. Book superior to all the rest. So why would he be ever mentioned in it.. Lastly all the people u spoke of, were simply alive or passed before OT was launched. Muhammad wasn't even born then. Then how come he can ever be mentioned. Are we on the same page now? All the prophets and books were flowing together so personally to me it can't be disapproved when it took yeeeeaaaaarssss of making it as God's revelation. Too much hard work went into making it and with many years. And I meant Muhammad's writing put at the end of OT. He doesn't need to be mentioned in OT to be in there. The prophets just showed up one after the other and left their writing in one place during the years. So I expected nothing different with the next one but the status quo was changed up for no reason or warning that's all
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 19:50:31 GMT
God who moves ton of galaxies around, creator of the universe, felt so bothered from a little planet in the milky way galaxy that, he chose ton of people to fire upon earth. That please tell them I exist. That's how stupid a religion sounds like . God is self evident. Oh wait!, he even thought to shape shift in to a human because all he did before was not enough. What do you mean? People knew God existed from the beginning of the world and recorded things in scripture. So when Mary and Joseph heard the news they weren't surprised God existed. They were like, "Great. Then we do as you say." Shrug But your god version story is totally funny . If ppl knew God existed, why they felt the need to record in scriptures. MARY and all the ppl u speak off! Were dumb enough not to figure out the obvious? Yeah, I presented my story in a funny way..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 19:59:22 GMT
As Frank said. OT was corrupted. They Made a final version in shape of Quran..that cannot be altered.. Quran disapproves all the previous revelation. Book superior to all the rest. So why would he be ever mentioned in it.. Lastly all the people u spoke of, were simply alive or passed before OT was launched. Muhammad wasn't even born then. Then how come he can ever be mentioned. Are we on the same page now? All the prophets and books were flowing together so personally to me it can't be disapproved when it took yeeeeaaaaarssss of making it as God's revelation. Too much hard work went into making it and with many years. And I meant Muhammad's writing put at the end of OT. He doesn't need to be mentioned in OT to be in there. The prophets just showed up one after the other and left their writing in one place during the years. So I expected nothing different with the next one but the status quo was changed up for no reason or warning that's all OK let me tell u how the story goes..the guy got freaked out, settled in and all his messages from God are in Quran and there is nothing more to it.. Stop bringing OT when it's not even relevant in his context.. And the reason he isn't.. Caz the previous prophets work was fucked up.. This leads me to another reason to show how crap these story telling are. God couldn't foresee all this right?? Oh shit.. I need the latest book to be launched now.. Like I said books were written by ppl not God.. Anyways I am not gonna go into that. I answered all your questions. That's the best I can do..incase you are still not cleared.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 20:03:44 GMT
Just like Jesus has his dedicated Nt. Muhammad has Quran. I can't make it simpler than this
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 17, 2018 20:11:08 GMT
What do you mean? People knew God existed from the beginning of the world and recorded things in scripture. So when Mary and Joseph heard the news they weren't surprised God existed. They were like, "Great. Then we do as you say." Shrug But your god version story is totally funny . If ppl knew God existed, why they felt the need to record in scriptures. MARY and all the ppl u speak off! Were dumb enough not to figure out the obvious? Yeah, I presented my story in a funny way.. If all people knew there wouldn't be atheists at all! But some atheist convert these days. So some need it to learn. Plus it's history recorded too! Despite me not liking history but we have it anyway Sigh
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Post by Polaris on Oct 17, 2018 21:23:40 GMT
Ok, so I did a little study about how Muhammed started Islam and had some questions. Here's the story I found.... So the guy was a merchant and thought about spirituality a lot. So he had a normal job as most of us and focused on being a good person as I hope most of us do too. Next, he decided to go meditate in a cave. Why a cave? Was he a caveman? Seems odd but whatever to each his own. Then supposedly an angel named Gabriel appeared and told him to practice and teach compassion, honesty, and justice. And at that time women had few rights so he tried to make them equal before God with more rights. Then since he thought he was actually going mad, his wife convinced him he was a prophet and was his first convert. Kind of odd someone else telling you that you're a prophet since prophets knew they were and told others they were. But for Muhammad the prophet stuff worked backwards I guess. Anyway, so since he was illiterate and couldn't read or write he spoke everything by word of mouth mostly...and to his family. Not until much later did his followers write the Koran. My questions. 1. Who picks an illiterate person to spread a message from God? That's like me using my kindergarten student over my high school student to deliver important announcements which I'd never do unless I wanted to embarrass myself. Moses knew measurements and could write. 2. If he was supposed to spread equality with males and females then why no equality? Women are killed in honor killings and not men. Where's the equality in this? I need to see hundreds or more dead male bodies. 3. Angel Gabriel told him that their god is the same one of Jacob and Jesus. So if their god is the OT god then their writtings would be together. All the OT prophets had their messages delivered and all written in OT. Where is the book of Muhammad in OT? After Micah somewhere? The fact that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was scared showed that he was just a normal person like any of his community people, and if he could bear the message they they equally can. At the first encounter with Jibrael, he was asked to read and he answered that he couldn't read and the first verses were revealed to him through Jibrael. As for his illiteracy, the first who disbelieved him tried to say that what he says was from Greek philosophy but the answer was that he could not have access to any source of knowledge so it must be revelation. His wife supported him and believed him and this shows the respect for woman in Islam as the first who believed him and supported him was a woman. regarding the systems of reward and punishment in Islam men and women are equal but what you are talking about was Arab tribal traditions. one of the miracles of the Quran is that it is learnt by heart without a change even of intonation just through the chain of narrations from the prophet until now and in verbal from i.e those who teach its narration do not teach it in regular schools but children taught to learn it by heart. Do you think it is possible to pass a book of more than 600 words from one to another verbally through a period of 1500 years without the least change if it does not contain the word of God?. As for the relationship between Mohammed and other Prophet, Mohammed pbuh is a continuation to what the prophets before him started and Jesus is mentioned as an esteemed prophet and there is a complete surah (section) in the Quran called Mary which tell her story and most the prophets Moses, Ibraham, Jacob and joseph are all mentioned and esteemed in the Quran. In Islam disbelieving in any of the Prophet turns you outside Islam
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 17, 2018 21:30:37 GMT
Ok, so I did a little study about how Muhammed started Islam and had some questions. Here's the story I found.... So the guy was a merchant and thought about spirituality a lot. So he had a normal job as most of us and focused on being a good person as I hope most of us do too. Next, he decided to go meditate in a cave. Why a cave? Was he a caveman? Seems odd but whatever to each his own. Then supposedly an angel named Gabriel appeared and told him to practice and teach compassion, honesty, and justice. And at that time women had few rights so he tried to make them equal before God with more rights. Then since he thought he was actually going mad, his wife convinced him he was a prophet and was his first convert. Kind of odd someone else telling you that you're a prophet since prophets knew they were and told others they were. But for Muhammad the prophet stuff worked backwards I guess. Anyway, so since he was illiterate and couldn't read or write he spoke everything by word of mouth mostly...and to his family. Not until much later did his followers write the Koran. My questions. 1. Who picks an illiterate person to spread a message from God? That's like me using my kindergarten student over my high school student to deliver important announcements which I'd never do unless I wanted to embarrass myself. Moses knew measurements and could write. 2. If he was supposed to spread equality with males and females then why no equality? Women are killed in honor killings and not men. Where's the equality in this? I need to see hundreds or more dead male bodies. 3. Angel Gabriel told him that their god is the same one of Jacob and Jesus. So if their god is the OT god then their writtings would be together. All the OT prophets had their messages delivered and all written in OT. Where is the book of Muhammad in OT? After Micah somewhere? The fact that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was scared showed that he was just a normal person like any of his community people, and if he could bear the message they they equally can. At the first encounter with Jibrael, he was asked to read and he answered that he couldn't read and the first verses were revealed to him through Jibrael. As for his illiteracy, the first who disbelieved him tried to say that what he says was from Greek philosophy but the answer was that he could not have access to any source of knowledge so it must be revelation. His wife supported him and believed him and this shows the respect for woman in Islam as the first who believed him and supported him was a woman. regarding the systems of reward and punishment in Islam men and women are equal but what you are talking about was Arab tribal traditions. one of the miracles of the Quran is that it is learnt by heart without a change even of intonation just through the chain of narrations from the prophet until now and in verbal from i.e those who teach its narration do not teach it in regular schools but children taught to learn it by heart. Do you think it is possible to pass a book of more than 600 words from one to another verbally through a period of 1500 years without the least change if it does not contain the word of God?. As for the relationship between Mohammed and other Prophet, Mohammed pbuh is a continuation to what the prophets before him started and Jesus is mentioned as an esteemed prophet and there is a complete surah (section) in the Quran called Mary which tell her story and most the prophets Moses, Ibraham, Jacob and joseph are all mentioned and esteemed in the Quran. In Islam disbelieving in any of the Prophet turns you outside Islam Well, the other difference is Gabriel spoke to Muhammad and all the other prophets had God talking to them. Why the difference? God is higher than angels and why wasn't it the same with Muhammad?
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Post by Polaris on Oct 17, 2018 21:42:07 GMT
The fact that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was scared showed that he was just a normal person like any of his community people, and if he could bear the message they they equally can. At the first encounter with Jibrael, he was asked to read and he answered that he couldn't read and the first verses were revealed to him through Jibrael. As for his illiteracy, the first who disbelieved him tried to say that what he says was from Greek philosophy but the answer was that he could not have access to any source of knowledge so it must be revelation. His wife supported him and believed him and this shows the respect for woman in Islam as the first who believed him and supported him was a woman. regarding the systems of reward and punishment in Islam men and women are equal but what you are talking about was Arab tribal traditions. one of the miracles of the Quran is that it is learnt by heart without a change even of intonation just through the chain of narrations from the prophet until now and in verbal from i.e those who teach its narration do not teach it in regular schools but children taught to learn it by heart. Do you think it is possible to pass a book of more than 600 words from one to another verbally through a period of 1500 years without the least change if it does not contain the word of God?. As for the relationship between Mohammed and other Prophet, Mohammed pbuh is a continuation to what the prophets before him started and Jesus is mentioned as an esteemed prophet and there is a complete surah (section) in the Quran called Mary which tell her story and most the prophets Moses, Ibraham, Jacob and joseph are all mentioned and esteemed in the Quran. In Islam disbelieving in any of the Prophet turns you outside Islam Well, the other difference is Gabriel spoke to Muhammad and all the other prophets had God talking to them. Why the difference? God is higher than angels and why wasn't it the same with Muhammad? The difference is the Quran was revealed in a period of time of 23 years, and not one book like that of the previous messengers. Verses of the Quran were revealed for different occasions and they were all collected and classified according to what the Prophet told his companions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 6:53:38 GMT
If ppl knew God existed, why they felt the need to record in scriptures. MARY and all the ppl u speak off! Were dumb enough not to figure out the obvious? Yeah, I presented my story in a funny way.. If all people knew there wouldn't be atheists at all! But some atheist convert these days. So some need it to learn. Plus it's history recorded too! Despite me not liking history but we have it anyway Ok first of all we need to accept diversity. we cant expect everyone to act or blv the same way as we do . so that answers your question about Atheist .. Secondly i am totally focused on the significance of scriptures here .. one does'nt need that to evaluate existence of God based on scriptures .. moving along with this assertion , we got ton of scriptures .. so why there are atheists then?? u get what i mean now. Ppl turn atheist in my view caz,,, they expect God to be all benevolent and when they see such is not prevailing on earth they disapprove Him, rather than figuring out the higher reason . secondly when they evaluate the crap in scriptures and all the other religion .. they are like fuck this shit .. ..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 13:17:31 GMT
Elizabeth1. Maybe because God wanted to chose him. I don't see anything wrong with him being illiterate. Is there any issue with that, combined with the concept of "being chosen by God"? 2. It is not basically about equality per se, but about improvement of women's lives in 7th century Arabia. Muhammad gained a lot of followers, because he had good relations with the commoners, whether men or women. Citizens of a lower class were treated badly in the Arab societies. What happens now in certain countries is an issue with these countries, not with Islam itself. Also, people to support their agenda will be able to pick some phrases from the Quran or Hadiths and reshape the original meaning. Normally Islam forbids murder. 3. As far as I know Muslims believe (as Muhammad did) that the Old and the New Testaments became corrupted by the Church, and that people on high ranks in the clergy determined which parts of the God's message will be incorporated, to gain profit from it. Bahira, also known as the Monk Sergius, was a Christian monk who predicted that Muhammad will be a prophet. I think he was supposed to know where lost scriptures are located, but he was eventually killed while he was sleeping (by a Jew or by a Byzantine). So the Quran was written in order to restore final message.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 23, 2018 14:07:00 GMT
Elizabeth 1. Maybe because God wanted to chose him. I don't see anything wrong with him being illiterate. Is there any issue with that, combined with the concept of "being chosen by God"? He just doesn't fit the pattern of prophets. The whole OT had literate prophets and God wanted whatever He told them to be written down. So all of them have a book in OT. I would just expect nothing different and for Muhammad to have his book as the last book in OT. Just an odd change God did when God doesn't change as He says. So someone lied then When is it allowed? Church never wrote it though. They only met to discuss what was already put together. Catholic church has slowly nowadays changed some versions. Like NIV is missing tons of verses or half missing them. I just call NIV junk now but some bibles are still fully complete. How did a monk know that? Only prophets would know that. See that's all confusing since God chose prophets for that not monks. Someone lied again either monk or God it seems
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 14:09:29 GMT
Elizabeth 1. Maybe because God wanted to chose him. I don't see anything wrong with him being illiterate. Is there any issue with that, combined with the concept of "being chosen by God"? 2. It is not basically about equality per se, but about improvement of women's lives in 7th century Arabia. Muhammad gained a lot of followers, because he had good relations with the commoners, whether men or women. Citizens of a lower class were treated badly in the Arab societies. What happens now in certain countries is an issue with these countries, not with Islam itself. Also, people to support their agenda will be able to pick some phrases from the Quran or Hadiths and reshape the original meaning. Normally Islam forbids murder. 3. As far as I know Muslims believe (as Muhammad did) that the Old and the New Testaments became corrupted by the Church, and that people on high ranks in the clergy determined which parts of the God's message will be incorporated, to gain profit from it. Bahira, also known as the Monk Sergius, was a Christian monk who predicted that Muhammad will be a prophet. I think he was supposed to know where lost scriptures are located, but he was eventually killed while he was sleeping (by a Jew or by a Byzantine). So the Quran was written in order to restore final message. Awesome!!! 3. As far as I know Muslims believe (as Muhammad did) that the Old and the New Testaments became corrupted by the Church, and that people on high ranks in the clergy determined which parts of the God's message will be incorporated, to gain profit from it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 15:36:08 GMT
<abbr> Elizabeth</abbr> The Quran is newer than the New Testament. Why would it supposed to be in the Old one? Anyway, if all of the prophets would have short hair, and God would pick one with long hair, would that mean that "God changed"? Muhammad's illiteracy is really nothing special. The Quran was written by someone who knew how to write, but the message came from Muhammad who supposedly received it from angel Djibril. Who exactly wrote the Old Testament is unknown, but the authors of the books are not the same who appear in the books' names. During the war, for example. Or in self-defense. In case of war there are also directives which regulate the behaviour of a Muslim soldier towards the enemy. Muslims can fight when other Muslims are persecuted somewhere, discriminated against, and their lives are in danger. In theory. Just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean that person is saint and understands everything in good ways. That's why you can see some idiotic laws in certain Islamic countries - even niqab and burqa are not necessary in Islam, hijab is. I am not talking about who wrote the Bible, but who decided what to incorporate into the Bible. Definitely a lot of people lied. Maybe God doesn't exist and both, Islam and Christianity are based on fairytales.
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