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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 14, 2018 6:12:32 GMT
What do you think?
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curio
New Member
Posts: 23
Likes: 15
Country: India
Ancestry: Indian
Religion: Hindu
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Post by curio on Apr 18, 2018 18:44:27 GMT
I don't think such a concept can not exist. By my understanding , when a group of come together, live around each other, interact with each other, they form a society. Then some rules are formed to keep that society in order ( much like many social platforms). Societies then appoint judges to see that the rules are followed. Now fairness or the lack of it is a matter of perception. Under certain circumstances, when actions are taken against someone in the society , they may feel that it was unfair to them. Others in the society may feel differently( same thing happens when someone gets banned from a social platform). Also human beings are sometimes biased. Hence I think fairness being a matter of individual perception cannot be defined objectively for an entire society.
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Post by just10sp on Apr 18, 2018 19:46:12 GMT
One that is run by me!
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Post by just10sp on Apr 18, 2018 19:47:42 GMT
I don't think such a concept can not exist. By my understanding , when a group of come together, live around each other, interact with each other, they form a society. Then some rules are formed to keep that society in order ( much like many social platforms). Societies then appoint judges to see that the rules are followed. Now fairness or the lack of it is a matter of perception. Under certain circumstances, when actions are taken against someone in the society , they may feel that it was unfair to them. Others in the society may feel differently( same thing happens when someone gets banned from a social platform). Also human beings are sometimes biased. Hence I think fairness being a matter of individual perception cannot be defined objectively for an entire society.The concept exists, to find a place in the world where the concept is followed does not ;p
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 18, 2018 20:07:08 GMT
Good answer. I would say one run by me too
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Festtt
New Member
Posts: 15
Likes: 11
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Post by Festtt on Apr 18, 2018 21:14:03 GMT
Hmm, I don't think it's "either it's fair or not fair" but rather a spectrum of more or less. If I can dream, redesigning the system quite drastically would possibly help get really far towards more fair. The current economic system and our values surrounding it makes things hard in many ways. Things get backwards and counter intuitive to the point where it's hard to understand where people are coming from. It has brought alot of good though which can't be overstated. I think a simpler society (not technologically simpler but mentally simpler in a way) with more grounded values focusing on the big picture of life could go far in terms of fairness.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 6:52:59 GMT
No. This can't be. A fair society is a totally rational society. At least one of the member has to cheat, because: 1) A society can't live without the tribe drama; 2) Someone sooner or later has to give up for his own feelings.
I would reinterpretate it to: 'What is a fair human?'
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 19, 2018 7:35:38 GMT
No. This can't be. A fair society is a totally rational society. At least one of the member has to cheat, because: 1) A society can't live without the tribe drama; 2) Someone sooner or later has to give up for his own feelings. I would reinterpretate it to: 'What is a fair human?' Why would drama be a requirement though? And we all have to give up something if we share a home or even the planet. We must learn to share and know we can't have it our way always.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 9:15:07 GMT
No. This can't be. A fair society is a totally rational society. At least one of the member has to cheat, because: 1) A society can't live without the tribe drama; 2) Someone sooner or later has to give up for his own feelings. I would reinterpretate it to: 'What is a fair human?' Why would drama be a requirement though? And we all have to give up something if we share a home or even the planet. We must learn to share and know we can't have it our way always. a. Drama is the important event that groups together a community. Without it the community has no past. Past is built up of events. The less important event, the less the community ties together. Having no past, as having no memory - is the way to nothing. b. Giving up is a both-side vision of the action of someone. A rational person makes no mistakes, so the one will be evaluate either you're out of your strength, or you've just decided to stop something. In both cases, this is not a way out. c. We must learn and we may do it - are different things. I don't know how much long I will be strong enough, and what about you? I think the answer is the same. I agree with you, that we're all looking for something best; we're trying to modernize themselves, or get a higher rank. Yes, it is. But there's contradiction - 'to get better', and 'not to cheat'. Without graduation of good, bad, middles, there wouldn't be 'best, and 'betters'. That's why, I think, a fair society is nothing, but an utopia. Cheers.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 19, 2018 9:20:31 GMT
Why would drama be a requirement though? And we all have to give up something if we share a home or even the planet. We must learn to share and know we can't have it our way always. a. Drama is the important event that groups together a community. Without it the community has no past. Past is built up of events. The less important event, the less the community ties together. Having no past, as having no memory - is the way to nothing. b. Giving up is a both-side vision of the action of someone. A rational person makes no mistakes, so the one will be evaluate either you're out of your strength, or you've just decided to stop something. In both cases, this is not a way out. c. We must learn and we may do it - are different things. I don't know how much long I will be strong enough, and what about you? I think the answer is the same. I agree with you, that we're all looking for something best; we're trying to modernize themselves, or get a higher rank. Yes, it is. But there's contradiction - 'to get better', and 'not to cheat'. Without graduation of good, bad, middles, there wouldn't be 'best, and 'betters'. That's why, I think, a fair society is nothing, but an utopia. Cheers. Things like common interests can group us together as well. Like people who like to go fishing can have fun going fishing and then talking about it. They'd be grouped together by that hobby or tied together by that hobby. And sure drama can exist and does tie people together in a community but it can be other things like sports, music, trips, etc.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 9:25:10 GMT
a. Drama is the important event that groups together a community. Without it the community has no past. Past is built up of events. The less important event, the less the community ties together. Having no past, as having no memory - is the way to nothing. b. Giving up is a both-side vision of the action of someone. A rational person makes no mistakes, so the one will be evaluate either you're out of your strength, or you've just decided to stop something. In both cases, this is not a way out. c. We must learn and we may do it - are different things. I don't know how much long I will be strong enough, and what about you? I think the answer is the same. I agree with you, that we're all looking for something best; we're trying to modernize themselves, or get a higher rank. Yes, it is. But there's contradiction - 'to get better', and 'not to cheat'. Without graduation of good, bad, middles, there wouldn't be 'best, and 'betters'. That's why, I think, a fair society is nothing, but an utopia. Cheers. Things like common interests can group us together as well. Like people who like to go fishing can have fun going fishing and then talking about it. They'd be grouped together by that hobby or tied together by that hobby. And sure drama can exist and does tie people together in a community but it can be other things like sports, music, trips, etc. Well, I agree. Then, we should differ 'groups of interests', and 'societies' in each categories. I will understand 'groups of interests' like the groups that you've said the ones make their own hobbies. I will understand 'societies' as the groups which tied up in their blood, rituals, ethnic, - something higher than just a hobby. So, I believe in fair groups of interests, but don't believe in fair societies.
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Post by just10sp on Apr 19, 2018 13:48:35 GMT
I would reinterpretate it to: 'What is a fair human?' This is a perfect statement. Fairness does not only encircle the desire to be fair at all cost and points in life, but also the ability to judge and balance the situation required for making the most just, rational, and most ’even’ choice, like a mathematician. Cheating is not necessary but is just how things usually go, not a requirement. Just as a child has to learn to share their household with a newborn, they eventually ’learn to love’ through self-sacrifice, even though it feels like a loss, at first.. We could all learn to love new things and see the beauty in fairness.. On a sidenote: (kind of unrelated) Since judgement is the most advanced function of the human brain we would constantly be increasing our morality and emotional responses; living with a higher orderly conduct we would be raising our intelligence as a species and EQ. In fact the entire frontal lobe is used for judging right and wrong, good bad, attractive ugly, yummy yucky, hot cold, real fake, making a unity of all dualistic viewsviews finding the justificarion for each decision. If we do not lead ourselves astray we can always improve. Our brain actually grows and learns through electro plasticity, constantly reshaping itself and remapping itself to the outside world. Most responses are habitual and do not cause substantial change, judgement requires being involved at the moment. Only through meditation, we can learn to control this movement by mediating thought. It is said the frontal lobe moves involuntarily and can only be controlled by those who meditate. So there is science involved that humanity may evolve through morality, and fall through immorality... As Jesus taught. We should be the most fair society then! The most morally correct! But I believe it is scripture that Satan has currently lead the whole world astray, and since it tends to be psychopaths who strive for mass power and control of the world, it's not really our fault we haven't achieved this; A world living by God’s Law. It is good to know that Hell was created for the devil and his angels (those who were deceived into doing evil, that fell from heaven), and that all who live in good faith are saved. Thus regardless of global catastrophe we shall not fear it and strive to do what is right always, this is how you are graded in the Kingdom of God God is called the most Just, and because of this he is seen the most high, he draws a perfect line. He has the highest morality; the fairest. Jesus as God incarnated came and said I am the way, we should follow the line Jesus made.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 16:12:58 GMT
I would reinterpretate it to: 'What is a fair human?' This is a perfect statement. Fairness does not only encircle the desire to be fair at all cost and points in life, but also the ability to judge and balance the situation required for making the most just, rational, and most ’even’ choice, like a mathematician. Cheating is not necessary but is just how things usually go, not a requirement. Just as a child has to learn to share their household with a newborn, they eventually ’learn to love’ through self-sacrifice, even though it feels like a loss, at first.. We could all learn to love new things and see the beauty in fairness.. On a sidenote: (kind of unrelated) Since judgement is the most advanced function of the human brain we would constantly be increasing our morality and emotional responses; living with a higher orderly conduct we would be raising our intelligence as a species and EQ. In fact the entire frontal lobe is used for judging right and wrong, good bad, attractive ugly, yummy yucky, hot cold, real fake, making a unity of all dualistic viewsviews finding the justificarion for each decision. If we do not lead ourselves astray we can always improve. Our brain actually grows and learns through electro plasticity, constantly reshaping itself and remapping itself to the outside world. Most responses are habitual and do not cause substantial change, judgement requires being involved at the moment. Only through meditation, we can learn to control this movement by mediating thought. It is said the frontal lobe moves involuntarily and can only be controlled by those who meditate. So there is science involved that humanity may evolve through morality, and fall through immorality... As Jesus taught. We should be the most fair society then! The most morally correct! But I believe it is scripture that Satan has currently lead the whole world astray, and since it tends to be psychopaths who strive for mass power and control of the world, it's not really our fault we haven't achieved this; A world living by God’s Law. It is good to know that Hell was created for the devil and his angels (those who were deceived into doing evil, that fell from heaven), and that all who live in good faith are saved. Thus regardless of global catastrophe we shall not fear it and strive to do what is right always, this is how you are graded in the Kingdom of God God is called the most Just, and because of this he is seen the most high, he draws a perfect line. He has the highest morality; the fairest. Jesus as God incarnated came and said I am the way, we should follow the line Jesus made. And here's a question 'is it possible for the one to lie to oneself?' All the time I clear with myself - I know everything I think (because it is the same - to think, and to know what you think). But, sometimes it happened like this, I was thinking about something known to me, and suddenly something weird occurred: I discovered that couple of notions weren't known by me, I used them as in a wrong way. And it's not fair sometimes that I discover that thoughts pass me by being non-reasoned. So, I think that it is hard to be fair even for yourself, because you're not sure in anything too reason. But our neighbour (in terms of New Testament) can be helpful in this by giving us a hand. Friendship here equals to morality.
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Post by just10sp on Apr 19, 2018 17:03:08 GMT
This is a perfect statement. Fairness does not only encircle the desire to be fair at all cost and points in life, but also the ability to judge and balance the situation required for making the most just, rational, and most ’even’ choice, like a mathematician. Cheating is not necessary but is just how things usually go, not a requirement. Just as a child has to learn to share their household with a newborn, they eventually ’learn to love’ through self-sacrifice, even though it feels like a loss, at first.. We could all learn to love new things and see the beauty in fairness.. On a sidenote: (kind of unrelated) Since judgement is the most advanced function of the human brain we would constantly be increasing our morality and emotional responses; living with a higher orderly conduct we would be raising our intelligence as a species and EQ. In fact the entire frontal lobe is used for judging right and wrong, good bad, attractive ugly, yummy yucky, hot cold, real fake, making a unity of all dualistic viewsviews finding the justificarion for each decision. If we do not lead ourselves astray we can always improve. Our brain actually grows and learns through electro plasticity, constantly reshaping itself and remapping itself to the outside world. Most responses are habitual and do not cause substantial change, judgement requires being involved at the moment. Only through meditation, we can learn to control this movement by mediating thought. It is said the frontal lobe moves involuntarily and can only be controlled by those who meditate. So there is science involved that humanity may evolve through morality, and fall through immorality... As Jesus taught. We should be the most fair society then! The most morally correct! But I believe it is scripture that Satan has currently lead the whole world astray, and since it tends to be psychopaths who strive for mass power and control of the world, it's not really our fault we haven't achieved this; A world living by God’s Law. It is good to know that Hell was created for the devil and his angels (those who were deceived into doing evil, that fell from heaven), and that all who live in good faith are saved. Thus regardless of global catastrophe we shall not fear it and strive to do what is right always, this is how you are graded in the Kingdom of God God is called the most Just, and because of this he is seen the most high, he draws a perfect line. He has the highest morality; the fairest. Jesus as God incarnated came and said I am the way, we should follow the line Jesus made. And here's a question 'is it possible for the one to lie to oneself?' All the time I clear with myself - I know everything I think (because it is the same - to think, and to know what you think). But, sometimes it happened like this, I was thinking about something known to me, and suddenly something weird occurred: I discovered that couple of notions weren't known by me, I used them as in a wrong way. And it's not fair sometimes that I discover that thoughts pass me by being non-reasoned. So, I think that it is hard to be fair even for yourself, because you're not sure in anything too reason. But our neighbour (in terms of New Testament) can be helpful in this by giving us a hand. Friendship here equals to morality. Yes through repetition one may lead oneself astray, and I agree we only believe that we know things. Sometimes we accept things as truth which are not. To be fair is more inquisitive than taken at first glance, in order to act with proper discernment you have to first come across the knowledge needed. This is the basis of the origin of logic, conducted reason that leads to more correct conclusions based on assumptions. We first need something to go off of until we are met with things that do not go well together. Logic means ”the word” or what is spoken and like any language or things that are interpreted and then translated into a way of communicating what was learnt thru language, which is similar to the definition of one of the oldest known languages Sanskrit, which means ‘well put together’ and suggests earlier languages. Things need to be put together first and then seen if they make sense, but first require you to have all the puzzle pieces. Having an assumption and then seeing if it plays out, an hypothesis. When we arrive at what we truly believe to be grounded by reason we deem it as fact, having deduced what was not. Tying back to being fair you first have to have the correct ideology, proving that overtime we become more and more correct and since society is groups of people coming together you improve society, change the world, like Jesus who never sinned nor told a lie. Luckily when he is Seated on the Throne he is All Knowing and can use his infinite reservoir of knowledge (beyond human comprehension) to judge all correctly. Again we can learn from his embodied state as a perfect ‘goto’ and role model. For us humans we can only do the best we can and ask for guidance from our brothers and hope they point us in the right direction, and use our own personal compass and hope the arrow pointing north is leading us closer to perfection. Monitoring thought and being like.. “wait, how do I know this, what is this based on.. did I make this thought up myself..” can lead to further investigation and a raised awareness, but I think that is the best we can do, re-search what is known. Anytime you learn more stuff you will see more of what is true and what is not true. Who knows all sees all
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 17:32:18 GMT
And here's a question 'is it possible for the one to lie to oneself?' All the time I clear with myself - I know everything I think (because it is the same - to think, and to know what you think). But, sometimes it happened like this, I was thinking about something known to me, and suddenly something weird occurred: I discovered that couple of notions weren't known by me, I used them as in a wrong way. And it's not fair sometimes that I discover that thoughts pass me by being non-reasoned. So, I think that it is hard to be fair even for yourself, because you're in anything too reason. But our neighbour (in terms of New Testament) can be helpful in this by giving us a hand. Friendship here equals to morality. Yes through repetition one may lead oneself astray, and I agree we only believe that we know things. Sometimes we accept things as truth which are not. To be fair is more inquisitive than taken at first glance, in order to act with proper discernment you have to first come across the knowledge needed. This is the basis of the origin of logic, conducted reason that leads to more correct conclusions based on assumptions. We first need something to go off of until we are met with things that do not go well together. Logic means ”the word” or what is spoken and like any language or things that are interpreted and then translated into a way of communicating what was learnt thru language, which is similar to the definition of one of the oldest known languages Sanskrit, which means ‘well put together’ and suggests earlier languages. Things need to be put together first and then seen if they make sense, but first require you to have all the puzzle pieces. Having an assumption and then seeing if it plays out, an hypothesis. When we arrive at what we truly believe to be grounded by reason we deem it as fact, having deduced what was not. Tying back to being fair you first have to have the correct ideology, proving that overtime we become more and more correct and since society is groups of people coming together you improve society, change the world, like Jesus who never sinned nor told a lie. Luckily when he is Seated on the Throne he is All Knowing and can use his infinite reservoir of knowledge (beyond human comprehension) to judge all correctly. Again we can learn from his embodied state as a perfect ‘goto’ and role model. For us humans we can only do the best we can and ask for guidance from our brothers and hope they point us in the right direction, and use our own personal compass and hope the arrow pointing north is leading us closer to perfection. Monitoring thought and being like.. “wait, how do I know this, what is this based on.. did I make this thought up myself..” can lead to further investigation and a raised awareness, but I think that is the best we can do, re-search what is known. Anytime you learn more stuff you will see more of what is true and what is not true. Who knows all sees all Your words are very positive. Seems you're a positive man, aren't you? Don't you mind if I ask you a few of questions?.. Ok. 1) What if the arrow would be pointing the South? Would it lead us closer to perfection? 2) Where our re-searches should be stopped? (For not being unawareness). 3) Recently, two believers stopped my friend and ask him whether he believes in Jesus. He refused it, because he was an atheist, and they started to beat me shouting that Jesus is the Lord, etc. I came him to help, and together we handle with it beating them up. So, I can't stand who sent me (I'm an atheist too) for help to my friend: an Angel? a Devil? And why Jesus left the both believers?
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