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Post by jonbain on Dec 5, 2023 6:55:36 GMT
Idealism, Materialism, Reality; (and the schism between the moment and the transcendent.)
Materialists and Idealists seem locked in a perpetual struggle for dominance, and that is the reality that we must all negotiate daily. Of course the materialists shrug, confident that their numerical appraisals of the state of the world, are the final say. And yet they are oblivious to how, even though their numbers remain fixed, the context of those numbers can shift subtly; rendering them either meaningful or meaningless, depending on mere perspective. Or, those numbers may also have the mere guise of entrenched meaning, beneath which are ever-more sophisticated nebulae of the endless strata of pseudo-science. And this is the lure of the emotional vampire and its ambitions for Monopolist State. As these very paragraphs are engraved in cyberspace, so the Israel-Palestine conflict reaches crescendo; and I am asked:
Why and how the Israeli state is any different from white supremacists?
That question being too full of numinosity to answer rapidly, it then kaleidoscopes into a tapestry of ideas, woven by these fragile tools, called words. And because language is itself intrinsically full of holes and flaws we must weave those textures with great care. Whereas the insufferable ambiguity of Anglaise, requires that we need also observe with the sensitivity of one holding an ancient fabric, crumbling in time, with but a miniscule shard of half-light to glimpse beneath the covers of the world, into the nexus of Platonic forms that make up True Scots Reality. Before all opportunity crumbles into ashes.
More pragmatically, if it is possible, one should view any such phenomena, through two quite different semantic lenses. Much like any math calculation should be checked through two methods. More simply, two I's see better than one.
{1} The first lens with which to view the answer, is through the pragmatics of warfare. Here we consider the Allied decision at the crux of world war 2, to either endorse the soviets or the nazis. They had to choose one of those two, because if the axis and the soviets were to form a union against the allies, the task would have been virtually unattainable.
Their decision was to endorse communism rather than the greater evil of nazism. And we ask ourselves, why was such a decision made? What was the real motivation?
Regardless as to what the perceived and documented excuses may have been, my conclusion here is that philosophically speaking, communism is a transcendental system, whereas nazism is superficially material. Even though, communism itself claims materialism; the ethic that drives communism entails that its system is open to anyone.
So if one was to find oneself holding the short-ended stick of fate, in a communist state, one is sent for 'rehabilitation' in Gulag. Whereas in a nazi state, the bottom-feeders are rather exterminated regardless of any skills or worth, simply as a result of their hereditary fate. So it should be easy to see that communism is better than nazism simply as a matter of sheer materialist pragmatics. In a race-war, even the unborn are targets; as are women and children.
So to return to the question posed, the Hebrews or Judaic peoples, being at core, a religion, are at least as transcendental as the communists. Of course, the Jews are more than just that, though many individuals that are within Israel are perhaps as much crass materialists as the commies. The worst cases should not be held as the typical median examples of any philosophy. {Unless of course one seeks the challenges of Don Juan in the proverbial strawman}
{2} The second lens with which to view this topic is that of ecosystems and nature conservation. If one finds the first lens a bit foggy to comprehend, consider the simple fact that ecosystems with the most variation are better at surviving, than single cultured environments. This argument ignores/avoids/dismisses the schism between the transcendental and the material as being too subtle.
Thus the 'Jews' are a rare breed by comparison to the 'Whites'. Using this lens, the Native Americans, are the most valuable simply due to their having lost most in recent centuries. By this token, Whites, are an abundant species for which we need spare no specific favors, lest they attain complete monopoly and make the global ethno-cultural ecosystem a more vulnerable place as a consequence.
But what evidence exists that multicultural societies are better equipped to thrive in this world? Well, the non-racists easily defeated the fascists in world war two, which is a very realist observation. And I cannot think of a better argument than that, though of course the chimeric antagonist will accuse me of war-mongering... However it was the fascists and the racists that invaded and antagonized the disaster of ww2, both in the east and the west.
On a more civil tone, avoiding the catastrophes of group-think, and dogmatic tyranny before they reach such uniformist fanaticism might be more prudent. And certainly, such is more attainable in a multicultural environment, than the bland tunnel vision of a monoculture. However successful, that monoculture might be in objective terms, it will always be vulnerable due to its simplicity. And it will always be antagonistic due to its inherrent elitist structure.
The perfect example here, would be the might of the battleship Bismarck. The height of naval technology was rendered useless by one torpedo from a Swordfish biplane, that hit the battleship's only rudder. All manner of vastly lesser torpedo ships could then sink it from a safe distance without fear of the mightiest guns of the day. A little bit of diversity in the rudder system may have helped a bit there. That Germany had not a single aircraft carrier, itself speaks volumes as to its lack of diverse thinking.
So we can only conclude, that regardless of the philosophical lens that we use, the racist will always be the Omega dog of the pack; for its lack of capacity to think beyond surface features. The mind of the racist is itself the very definition of the primitive mind. Because it can only think in terms of the simplistic categories of 'race' which bear no resemblance to anything objectively measurable within the psyche of each individual person, or persona.
And it achieves this state of mind by being frozen in the moment due to fear. And as a consequence of such fear of introspection, it has little regard for past events, and thus even less predictive capacity for future events. It assumes all thought is based on fear; because that is all the thought it can recall. Mere intstinct without abstraction.
But lest it seem I am hungry for their demise, do not forget that the primitive racist beast itself, has a specific role to play in the sociopolitical ecosystem. PS Please don't feed the vampires.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 12, 2023 20:48:53 GMT
What do you mean exactly? Can tou give me an example? You said that you are not secular or atheist, which means you must have some kind of religious or spiritual beliefs. Secular means the sphere apart from the religious, stemming from Saint Augustine's concept of the Cycular from his work City of God. Atheist means one does not believe in a God of any kind. If you are neither of these things it means you have a religion or believe in a God or gods, so I am just asking what your beliefs are. I could give a myriad of examples from Christianity, to Buddhism, to Platonism, to the worship of Pagan deities like the Norse gods, to the Animistic Shamanism of Amazonian Native tribes, or UFO cults like Heaven's Gate. I've even learned that in traditional Chinese paganism they believe in the Dao, which is essentially the force from Star Wars, but in Ancient China, it's what the Jedi religion is based upon in those movies. There are as many religious beliefs systems as their are stars in the sky. People even have their own personal beliefs unique to themselves which no one but them shares. I am asking what you believe about God, gods, magic, the supernatural, the spirit world, theology, or if you have some kind of philosophy you follow that mimics a religion like Confucianism to the point its called a religion that may or may not also include the belief in a deity or deities or the other things mentioned. You said that you've been involved in the occult and that you've used DMT and have seen other worlds for instance. This seems a fascinating topic that may have to do with this question. May you elaborate on such? Ahh the "convictions" part confused me for a sec. What do i believe you ask? Well i try not to, I have devoted my life to trying to find the truth about life and in the process i have experienced many spiritual things And i have worked really hard at learning how to set my opinion down and try to really see things from other peoples perspective and so what i have come to know is this There is no belief that is "the right one" although there are some beliefs that are more beneficial to the person then others but just because a belief is beneficial doesn't mean it's "the truth" Reality can't be "grabbed and known" by a belief because thats not how reality is When a person believes in something they are weakening themselves by limiting themselves as if to put a post in the ground and to tie yourself to it while the world is constantly moving It is not only unwise but it is a guarantee that a person will never obtain the very thing that is the reason as to why they hold the belief in the first place , and life seems to be ironic like that all the time. I see mankind as being in a losing battle with the imagination in a war that they have no idea there even in And losing at a breath takingly fast pace, So i try to deal with real life, in a real world, full of reeal people, that only want to stress and fight over not real things. You want me to tell you my method of maneuvering through life but unfortunately my method isn't a method as it changes organically with the organic situation and so i cant fit it into a single post because that would be doing myself a disservice by making myself seem far more simplistic then i actually am. But to help give you a better idea as to how i would react in any given situation I'll say this. If there is a belief involved then i probably would disagree with it.
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Post by jonbain on Dec 13, 2023 16:59:06 GMT
Your are utterly mistaken about Hitler because Catholicism does not teach to murder by the million.
It clearly says "thou shalt not kill" (the 6th commandment, btw)
So Adolf was just another common or garden variety psychopath.
they celebrated his birthday for many years after his passing. And he was cleansing the Earth because the Jews killed the Messiah and so is his version of payback so to speak but he was a believer. Granted he was definitely left field for any religion but nonetheless he was religious. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach revenge against the Jews. In fact Christianity is all about helping others repent of their sins.
But the question as to WHY Hitler hated Jews is still a gaping void in the historical narrative.
So I can see why it was tempting to contrive him to be in that position. But such contrivance still lacks a motive and a motivator.
The holocaust being in absolutely nobody's interest in europe at least.
The only real suspects would be die-hard Ottomons, or orientials trying to derail western (Christian) unity.
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Post by jonbain on Dec 13, 2023 17:01:40 GMT
in traditional Chinese paganism they believe in the Dao, which is essentially the force from Star Wars,
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Post by jonbain on Dec 13, 2023 17:07:27 GMT
Ahh the "convictions" part confused me for a sec. What do i believe you ask? Well i try not to, I have devoted my life to trying to find the truth about life and in the process i have experienced many spiritual things And i have worked really hard at learning how to set my opinion down and try to really see things from other peoples perspective and so what i have come to know is this There is no belief that is "the right one" although there are some beliefs that are more beneficial to the person then others but just because a belief is beneficial doesn't mean it's "the truth" Reality can't be "grabbed and known" by a belief because thats not how reality is When a person believes in something they are weakening themselves by limiting themselves as if to put a post in the ground and to tie yourself to it while the world is constantly moving It is not only unwise but it is a guarantee that a person will never obtain the very thing that is the reason as to why they hold the belief in the first place , and life seems to be ironic like that all the time. I see mankind as being in a losing battle with the imagination in a war that they have no idea there even in And losing at a breath takingly fast pace, So i try to deal with real life, in a real world, full of reeal people, that only want to stress and fight over not real things. You want me to tell you my method of maneuvering through life but unfortunately my method isn't a method as it changes organically with the organic situation and so i cant fit it into a single post because that would be doing myself a disservice by making myself seem far more simplistic then i actually am. But to help give you a better idea as to how i would react in any given situation I'll say this. If there is a belief involved then i probably would disagree with it.
So vaguely spiritual with scattered nihilism.
But I have to ask,
what do you MEAN by spiritual?
Because the literal (but avoided) meaning is a belief in ghosts. Or in more empirical terms: Knowledge of ghosts.
Life after death. Which is the essence of what Christianity entails anyways.
Morals being derived from that claim to the existential ontology of the soul.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Dec 14, 2023 7:02:31 GMT
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Clovis Merovingian
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Elder
Posts: 2,697
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
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Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
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Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Dec 14, 2023 7:09:55 GMT
Ahh the "convictions" part confused me for a sec. What do i believe you ask? Well i try not to, I have devoted my life to trying to find the truth about life and in the process i have experienced many spiritual things And i have worked really hard at learning how to set my opinion down and try to really see things from other peoples perspective and so what i have come to know is this There is no belief that is "the right one" although there are some beliefs that are more beneficial to the person then others but just because a belief is beneficial doesn't mean it's "the truth" Reality can't be "grabbed and known" by a belief because thats not how reality is When a person believes in something they are weakening themselves by limiting themselves as if to put a post in the ground and to tie yourself to it while the world is constantly moving It is not only unwise but it is a guarantee that a person will never obtain the very thing that is the reason as to why they hold the belief in the first place , and life seems to be ironic like that all the time. I see mankind as being in a losing battle with the imagination in a war that they have no idea there even in And losing at a breath takingly fast pace, So i try to deal with real life, in a real world, full of reeal people, that only want to stress and fight over not real things. You want me to tell you my method of maneuvering through life but unfortunately my method isn't a method as it changes organically with the organic situation and so i cant fit it into a single post because that would be doing myself a disservice by making myself seem far more simplistic then i actually am. But to help give you a better idea as to how i would react in any given situation I'll say this. If there is a belief involved then i probably would disagree with it.
So vaguely spiritual with scattered nihilism.
But I have to ask,
what do you MEAN by spiritual?
Because the literal (but avoided) meaning is a belief in ghosts. Or in more empirical terms: Knowledge of ghosts.
Life after death. Which is the essence of what Christianity entails anyways.
Morals being derived from that claim to the existential ontology of the soul.
Yes, I was wondering this too. I can certainly respect most of what he said. Often nonbelievers will have good and respectable reasons for nonbelief that though I disagree with, makes sense. However when he said he had spiritual experiences this was the only discrepancy I think. If one has dealt with actual spirits then why would they discount anything at all, especially in the realm of religion, or spirituality, mythology, folklore or anything regarding these as unreal? On what basis would he have to do this? This was my mistake as a Christian for so many years, believing in a supernatural God who created the entirety of the world but discounting everything else as nonsense and superstition, even though this God's Word itself gives an explanation for all of it. Once you run into one supernatural thing what sense does it make to discount the others?
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Post by jonbain on Dec 15, 2023 7:32:23 GMT
And here I was following the tradition that star wars is just a copy-paste of the wizard of oz
as a consequence via syllogism does that mean the wizard of oz is also Taoism?
But Taoism is the chief rival of communism in china, so its perhaps an ally as regards
the redemption of china?
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 16, 2023 1:30:47 GMT
So vaguely spiritual with scattered nihilism.
But I have to ask,
what do you MEAN by spiritual?
Because the literal (but avoided) meaning is a belief in ghosts. Or in more empirical terms: Knowledge of ghosts.
Life after death. Which is the essence of what Christianity entails anyways.
Morals being derived from that claim to the existential ontology of the soul.
Yes, I was wondering this too. I can certainly respect most of what he said. Often nonbelievers will have good and respectable reasons for nonbelief that though I disagree with, makes sense. However when he said he had spiritual experiences this was the only discrepancy I think. If one has dealt with actual spirits then why would they discount anything at all, especially in the realm of religion, or spirituality, mythology, folklore or anything regarding these as unreal? On what basis would he have to do this? This was my mistake as a Christian for so many years, believing in a supernatural God who created the entirety of the world but discounting everything else as nonsense and superstition, even though this God's Word itself gives an explanation for all of it. Once you run into one supernatural thing what sense does it make to discount the others? I have had many spiritual experiences dont care to talk about them because it wouldn't help in any productive way and the only thing it has brought me in the past is misunderstanding and envy and hate depending on who I'm talking to Some people think that i have a "I'm special your not" mentality because of some of the kinds of spiritual experiences ive had And some people that love that kind of stuff and chase the experience will get jelus and mad at me for having experienced something that they have been trying to achieve and i did so completely by axident so they get mad at me And others just think I'm bragging for attention And it doesn't help anyone by me hilighting what ive experienced so i just keep it to myself i dont want anyone looking at me as being not normal because i am, and Literally anyone can have the same experiences it just takes a levle if letting go of everything in order to get there which anyone can do . But to answer you when you say why would i discount anything people say they have experienced Well as i said i see man kind fighting a war with the imagination and losing And so this is why one person over there can have a spiritual experience and it be about the biblical god While over on the other side of the planet a different person has a spiritual experience of a Hindu god Acording to the bible there is only 1 actual god Yet to the Hindu person there gods have been around alot longer then the christan god has And both of them had spiritual experiences so whos right and whos wrong? You cant say the Christians one is the right one, and the Hindu one is wrong, when they both had an experience and the Hindu guy has more clout seeing as his gods have been around way longer then the christan gods have and neither one has any more "evidence" then the other And there are many other people having spiritual experiences that are all different from each other but line up with what they know and or believe And no one has more of a right to say they are right and the other is wrong And so this means that its not any of them instead its option #3 which is that each person is filtering the experience through there imagination seeing it in the way that they see it which is not for what it is but instead they see the elusion that there imagination has made because there imagination is out of control they dont have any power over it it is like a horse that cant be broken and they are completely oblivious to this and i don't expect anyone that hasn't experienced seeing this to agree with me infact if a person hasn't defeated there imagination yet then they will strongly disagree such is the nature of the imagination.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 16, 2023 1:39:13 GMT
Ahh the "convictions" part confused me for a sec. What do i believe you ask? Well i try not to, I have devoted my life to trying to find the truth about life and in the process i have experienced many spiritual things And i have worked really hard at learning how to set my opinion down and try to really see things from other peoples perspective and so what i have come to know is this There is no belief that is "the right one" although there are some beliefs that are more beneficial to the person then others but just because a belief is beneficial doesn't mean it's "the truth" Reality can't be "grabbed and known" by a belief because thats not how reality is When a person believes in something they are weakening themselves by limiting themselves as if to put a post in the ground and to tie yourself to it while the world is constantly moving It is not only unwise but it is a guarantee that a person will never obtain the very thing that is the reason as to why they hold the belief in the first place , and life seems to be ironic like that all the time. I see mankind as being in a losing battle with the imagination in a war that they have no idea there even in And losing at a breath takingly fast pace, So i try to deal with real life, in a real world, full of reeal people, that only want to stress and fight over not real things. You want me to tell you my method of maneuvering through life but unfortunately my method isn't a method as it changes organically with the organic situation and so i cant fit it into a single post because that would be doing myself a disservice by making myself seem far more simplistic then i actually am. But to help give you a better idea as to how i would react in any given situation I'll say this. If there is a belief involved then i probably would disagree with it.
So vaguely spiritual with scattered nihilism.
But I have to ask,
what do you MEAN by spiritual?
Because the literal (but avoided) meaning is a belief in ghosts. Or in more empirical terms: Knowledge of ghosts.
Life after death. Which is the essence of what Christianity entails anyways.
Morals being derived from that claim to the existential ontology of the soul.
By spiritual im talking about basically the same thing that the bible describes more or less im talking about that part of us that is not of just this physical realm and im talking about the place that this physical realm manifest from. If you want more detail then id say that the theosophical society goes into great detail on the topic and i agree with alot of what they say about the layout of the spiritual
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Clovis Merovingian
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Elder
Posts: 2,697
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
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Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Dec 16, 2023 10:03:31 GMT
Yes, I was wondering this too. I can certainly respect most of what he said. Often nonbelievers will have good and respectable reasons for nonbelief that though I disagree with, makes sense. However when he said he had spiritual experiences this was the only discrepancy I think. If one has dealt with actual spirits then why would they discount anything at all, especially in the realm of religion, or spirituality, mythology, folklore or anything regarding these as unreal? On what basis would he have to do this? This was my mistake as a Christian for so many years, believing in a supernatural God who created the entirety of the world but discounting everything else as nonsense and superstition, even though this God's Word itself gives an explanation for all of it. Once you run into one supernatural thing what sense does it make to discount the others? I have had many spiritual experiences dont care to talk about them because it wouldn't help in any productive way and the only thing it has brought me in the past is misunderstanding and envy and hate depending on who I'm talking to Some people think that i have a "I'm special your not" mentality because of some of the kinds of spiritual experiences ive had And some people that love that kind of stuff and chase the experience will get jelus and mad at me for having experienced something that they have been trying to achieve and i did so completely by axident so they get mad at me And others just think I'm bragging for attention And it doesn't help anyone by me hilighting what ive experienced so i just keep it to myself i dont want anyone looking at me as being not normal because i am, and Literally anyone can have the same experiences it just takes a levle if letting go of everything in order to get there which anyone can do . But to answer you when you say why would i discount anything people say they have experienced Well as i said i see man kind fighting a war with the imagination and losing And so this is why one person over there can have a spiritual experience and it be about the biblical god While over on the other side of the planet a different person has a spiritual experience of a Hindu god Acording to the bible there is only 1 actual god Yet to the Hindu person there gods have been around alot longer then the christan god has And both of them had spiritual experiences so whos right and whos wrong? You cant say the Christians one is the right one, and the Hindu one is wrong, when they both had an experience and the Hindu guy has more clout seeing as his gods have been around way longer then the christan gods have and neither one has any more "evidence" then the other And there are many other people having spiritual experiences that are all different from each other but line up with what they know and or believe And no one has more of a right to say they are right and the other is wrong And so this means that its not any of them instead its option #3 which is that each person is filtering the experience through there imagination seeing it in the way that they see it which is not for what it is but instead they see the elusion that there imagination has made because there imagination is out of control they dont have any power over it it is like a horse that cant be broken and they are completely oblivious to this and i don't expect anyone that hasn't experienced seeing this to agree with me infact if a person hasn't defeated there imagination yet then they will strongly disagree such is the nature of the imagination. About what you aid about the Hindu gods being older that the Christian one... Strictly historically speaking I don't think that's true. What happened, quite literally, according to the Biblical narrative was that Abraham came to the land of Canaan and claimed that their high God El gave him and his descendants their land and was the one true God who created heaven and earth and everything in it and was alone worthy to worship. Now there's much more to it than that, but the Hindu gods come from the Indo-Aryan invasion of India in 1800-1500 BC, where they had diverged from the proto Indo European pantheon already but also diverged further later on because their gods and religion are a bit different from their Iranic neighbors who are related to them. The Canaanites, or their ancestors had been living in that land for a VERY long time. Wikipedia gives a kind of periodization of the history of civilization in Canaan. Prior to 4500 BC (prehistory – Stone Age): hunter-gatherer societies slowly giving way to farming and herding societies 4500–3500 BC (Chalcolithic): early metal-working and farming 3500–2000 BC (Early Bronze): prior to written records in the area[dubious – discuss] 2000–1550 BC (Middle Bronze): city-states[17][18] 1550–1200 BC (Late Bronze): Egyptian hegemony 1200–various dates by region (Iron Age) So, the Canaanites were in city states before the Indo-Aryans ever got to India, and they were probably monotheistically, or close to it, worshipping El, when they were hunter gatherers in prehistory because Hunter Gatherers actually tend to be far more monotheistic than civilized urban societies, and the name El, is just a word that means God, meaning that they were just generically worshipping God. This Semitic and Near Eastern High God, just called El or Allah, is an extremely old deity and is actually much older than the Hindu gods by quite a bit. As for Christianity and the Second Temple Judaism it sprung from, it's basically an interpretation of the gods, religions, spirits, and theology of other peoples though the lens of a monotheistic, or I guess in another way of looking at it, a monolatristic people in the Levant, whose God just so happened later in history to conquer the world through the figure of Jesus Christ who claimed to be him and to be his Son, and backed it up with results. Now, as for spiritual experiences I've had them too, in abundance, far more than I ever wanted. Some I asked for, some that I most certainly did not and were foisted upon me violently by spirits and by violent men. I have them every day these days because of very peculiar circumstances in my life that I won't go into. These experiences are clearly Christian. The players are Almighty God, who I've heard from so many times in my entire life and who guides me still, and Satan and his demons who torment me constantly and wish to take my very soul. Now, you say that my imagination is getting the best of me when I've seen things fly across the room, and when I've seen prophecies come to pass, and I've attacked viciously by demons, I've been spoken to audibly by both an angel and demon on separate occasions, and I've been spoken to by God himself my entire life. How do I know what's happening here? Well, God told me who he is, so I tend to believe him when he speaks, and the demons attacks are all trying to keep me from doing what God has called me to do, to try and hinder what God has purposed for me, and to try and pit me against those who God would have me love and against God himself, and to try and destroy my life, and every time God has been truthful when one finds out the truth of what both sides are saying, and the demons vicious liars. I do not doubt that the Hindus are having spiritual experiences with their gods, and I do not doubt that their gods are their gods. I simply contend that my God created their gods, that their gods are in rebellion to my god because they accepted worship when worship is only to God alone, and that their gods do not have the best of intentions for those worshipping them. I remember once buying a bunch of texts from other religions, the Quran, the Talmud, the Vedas, and Bahagavad gita. All the books were bought just out of curiosity but something was terribly wrong with Bahagavad gita specifically. It evoked a feeling on sinsterness, unease, and dread in me on a spiritual level. I had to pray over it to exercise whatever kind of thing was attached to it, because it had likely been involved in some kind of Hindu ritual. After praying over it, the room just felt clean, holy, like something terribly evil had left it and been cleansed from it. I don't think that people are special for having spiritual experiences. I think that if you seek spirits, they will find you, and sometimes, when you avoid them, they will find you also. The demons love this new age of materialism where many deny the supernatural and the spiritual. It plays right into their hand and their agenda. But when the cat is out of the bag and there's no longer any room for doubt the cat is out of the bag and they may not see such an urgency to hide, and to get the cat out of the bag, you just need to pull it out. In answer to your question about whose right regarding the spiritual experiences of the Christian and the Hindu, the obvious answer is both. There's no need to deny either. How you parse them out as compatible with one another, or how you interpret them in light of one another is up to you. I think that both the Christian and the Hindu have an explanation for this, but its very imperative that one finds the truth of which one is right in their interpretation, because it could cost you everything. I know what I believe, because I know exactly what I've seen and heard so I'm sticking with that.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Dec 16, 2023 10:19:16 GMT
And here I was following the tradition that star wars is just a copy-paste of the wizard of oz
as a consequence via syllogism does that mean the wizard of oz is also Taoism?
But Taoism is the chief rival of communism in china, so its perhaps an ally as regards
the redemption of china?
, I know you're joking, but still... the sperg in me warrants a response. Star Wars has many influences, one of which is classic European fairy Tales and Knights stories. Basically a wizard and swordsmen trains a farm boy in the art of magic and swordsmanship to fight an evil wizard and a dark knight that they rescue a princess from. Likewise there are American folklore influences too because that farm boy is accompanied by bigfoot and a roguish Old West desperado. It's also influenced by 1920s Pulp novels like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon which invented the Genre of the Space Opera, and George Lucas created Star Wars in the first place because they wouldn't let him make a Flash Gordon movie so he created his own Pulp space opera. Likewise it even has influences from the European silent film Metropolis because C3PO is just a male version of the design of false Maria. I've never heard the Wizard of Oz thing before, but I don't doubt it one bit. The Jedi religion and the force are based off of Taoism almost directly, and there does seem to be bunch of East Asian influences to it also, as the Jedi are based on Samurai also. As for Taoism being the main rival of communist China, does that make them the rebel alliance? Does that mean that Xi Jinping is Palpatine?
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 16, 2023 12:58:50 GMT
I have had many spiritual experiences dont care to talk about them because it wouldn't help in any productive way and the only thing it has brought me in the past is misunderstanding and envy and hate depending on who I'm talking to Some people think that i have a "I'm special your not" mentality because of some of the kinds of spiritual experiences ive had And some people that love that kind of stuff and chase the experience will get jelus and mad at me for having experienced something that they have been trying to achieve and i did so completely by axident so they get mad at me And others just think I'm bragging for attention And it doesn't help anyone by me hilighting what ive experienced so i just keep it to myself i dont want anyone looking at me as being not normal because i am, and Literally anyone can have the same experiences it just takes a levle if letting go of everything in order to get there which anyone can do . But to answer you when you say why would i discount anything people say they have experienced Well as i said i see man kind fighting a war with the imagination and losing And so this is why one person over there can have a spiritual experience and it be about the biblical god While over on the other side of the planet a different person has a spiritual experience of a Hindu god Acording to the bible there is only 1 actual god Yet to the Hindu person there gods have been around alot longer then the christan god has And both of them had spiritual experiences so whos right and whos wrong? You cant say the Christians one is the right one, and the Hindu one is wrong, when they both had an experience and the Hindu guy has more clout seeing as his gods have been around way longer then the christan gods have and neither one has any more "evidence" then the other And there are many other people having spiritual experiences that are all different from each other but line up with what they know and or believe And no one has more of a right to say they are right and the other is wrong And so this means that its not any of them instead its option #3 which is that each person is filtering the experience through there imagination seeing it in the way that they see it which is not for what it is but instead they see the elusion that there imagination has made because there imagination is out of control they dont have any power over it it is like a horse that cant be broken and they are completely oblivious to this and i don't expect anyone that hasn't experienced seeing this to agree with me infact if a person hasn't defeated there imagination yet then they will strongly disagree such is the nature of the imagination. About what you aid about the Hindu gods being older that the Christian one... Strictly historically speaking I don't think that's true. What happened, quite literally, according to the Biblical narrative was that Abraham came to the land of Canaan and claimed that their high God El gave him and his descendants their land and was the one true God who created heaven and earth and everything in it and was alone worthy to worship. Now there's much more to it than that, but the Hindu gods come from the Indo-Aryan invasion of India in 1800-1500 BC, where they had diverged from the proto Indo European pantheon already but also diverged further later on because their gods and religion are a bit different from their Iranic neighbors who are related to them. The Canaanites, or their ancestors had been living in that land for a VERY long time. Wikipedia gives a kind of periodization of the history of civilization in Canaan. Prior to 4500 BC (prehistory – Stone Age): hunter-gatherer societies slowly giving way to farming and herding societies 4500–3500 BC (Chalcolithic): early metal-working and farming 3500–2000 BC (Early Bronze): prior to written records in the area[dubious – discuss] 2000–1550 BC (Middle Bronze): city-states[17][18] 1550–1200 BC (Late Bronze): Egyptian hegemony 1200–various dates by region (Iron Age) So, the Canaanites were in city states before the Indo-Aryans ever got to India, and they were probably monotheistically, or close to it, worshipping El, when they were hunter gatherers in prehistory because Hunter Gatherers actually tend to be far more monotheistic than civilized urban societies, and the name El, is just a word that means God, meaning that they were just generically worshipping God. This Semitic and Near Eastern High God, just called El or Allah, is an extremely old deity and is actually much older than the Hindu gods by quite a bit. As for Christianity and the Second Temple Judaism it sprung from, it's basically an interpretation of the gods, religions, spirits, and theology of other peoples though the lens of a monotheistic, or I guess in another way of looking at it, a monolatristic people in the Levant, whose God just so happened later in history to conquer the world through the figure of Jesus Christ who claimed to be him and to be his Son, and backed it up with results. Now, as for spiritual experiences I've had them too, in abundance, far more than I ever wanted. Some I asked for, some that I most certainly did not and were foisted upon me violently by spirits and by violent men. I have them every day these days because of very peculiar circumstances in my life that I won't go into. These experiences are clearly Christian. The players are Almighty God, who I've heard from so many times in my entire life and who guides me still, and Satan and his demons who torment me constantly and wish to take my very soul. Now, you say that my imagination is getting the best of me when I've seen things fly across the room, and when I've seen prophecies come to pass, and I've attacked viciously by demons, I've been spoken to audibly by both an angel and demon on separate occasions, and I've been spoken to by God himself my entire life. How do I know what's happening here? Well, God told me who he is, so I tend to believe him when he speaks, and the demons attacks are all trying to keep me from doing what God has called me to do, to try and hinder what God has purposed for me, and to try and pit me against those who God would have me love and against God himself, and to try and destroy my life, and every time God has been truthful when one finds out the truth of what both sides are saying, and the demons vicious liars. I do not doubt that the Hindus are having spiritual experiences with their gods, and I do not doubt that their gods are their gods. I simply contend that my God created their gods, that their gods are in rebellion to my god because they accepted worship when worship is only to God alone, and that their gods do not have the best of intentions for those worshipping them. I remember once buying a bunch of texts from other religions, the Quran, the Talmud, the Vedas, and Bahagavad gita. All the books were bought just out of curiosity but something was terribly wrong with Bahagavad gita specifically. It evoked a feeling on sinsterness, unease, and dread in me on a spiritual level. I had to pray over it to exercise whatever kind of thing was attached to it, because it had likely been involved in some kind of Hindu ritual. After praying over it, the room just felt clean, holy, like something terribly evil had left it and been cleansed from it. I don't think that people are special for having spiritual experiences. I think that if you seek spirits, they will find you, and sometimes, when you avoid them, they will find you also. The demons love this new age of materialism where many deny the supernatural and the spiritual. It plays right into their hand and their agenda. But when the cat is out of the bag and there's no longer any room for doubt the cat is out of the bag and they may not see such an urgency to hide, and to get the cat out of the bag, you just need to pull it out. In answer to your question about whose right regarding the spiritual experiences of the Christian and the Hindu, the obvious answer is both. There's no need to deny either. How you parse them out as compatible with one another, or how you interpret them in light of one another is up to you. I think that both the Christian and the Hindu have an explanation for this, but its very imperative that one finds the truth of which one is right in their interpretation, because it could cost you everything. I know what I believe, because I know exactly what I've seen and heard so I'm sticking with that. Theres that important part "Acording to the bible" I know what the bible says i was a Christian for 26yrs however just because a book says something that doesn't make it true And it is a undisputed fact that many of the Hindu gods have been around for way longer then the Abrahamic faith this is a fact independent of what claims are made in the bible because the upanishads make claims about the beginning of all creation so they must be true too right? And i never said people dont experience things but i explained why they interpret them the way they do and you being convinced of what you experienced doesnt mean anything other then that you are convinced by your own imagination, you clearly cant comprehend what im telling you which is to be expected, no one ever does and they just give me resons that ive heard before and are obviously fron the imagination. But you will be you.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1,758
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Dec 16, 2023 13:27:42 GMT
About what you aid about the Hindu gods being older that the Christian one... Strictly historically speaking I don't think that's true. What happened, quite literally, according to the Biblical narrative was that Abraham came to the land of Canaan and claimed that their high God El gave him and his descendants their land and was the one true God who created heaven and earth and everything in it and was alone worthy to worship. Now there's much more to it than that, but the Hindu gods come from the Indo-Aryan invasion of India in 1800-1500 BC, where they had diverged from the proto Indo European pantheon already but also diverged further later on because their gods and religion are a bit different from their Iranic neighbors who are related to them. The Canaanites, or their ancestors had been living in that land for a VERY long time. Wikipedia gives a kind of periodization of the history of civilization in Canaan. Prior to 4500 BC (prehistory – Stone Age): hunter-gatherer societies slowly giving way to farming and herding societies 4500–3500 BC (Chalcolithic): early metal-working and farming 3500–2000 BC (Early Bronze): prior to written records in the area[dubious – discuss] 2000–1550 BC (Middle Bronze): city-states[17][18] 1550–1200 BC (Late Bronze): Egyptian hegemony 1200–various dates by region (Iron Age) So, the Canaanites were in city states before the Indo-Aryans ever got to India, and they were probably monotheistically, or close to it, worshipping El, when they were hunter gatherers in prehistory because Hunter Gatherers actually tend to be far more monotheistic than civilized urban societies, and the name El, is just a word that means God, meaning that they were just generically worshipping God. This Semitic and Near Eastern High God, just called El or Allah, is an extremely old deity and is actually much older than the Hindu gods by quite a bit. As for Christianity and the Second Temple Judaism it sprung from, it's basically an interpretation of the gods, religions, spirits, and theology of other peoples though the lens of a monotheistic, or I guess in another way of looking at it, a monolatristic people in the Levant, whose God just so happened later in history to conquer the world through the figure of Jesus Christ who claimed to be him and to be his Son, and backed it up with results. Now, as for spiritual experiences I've had them too, in abundance, far more than I ever wanted. Some I asked for, some that I most certainly did not and were foisted upon me violently by spirits and by violent men. I have them every day these days because of very peculiar circumstances in my life that I won't go into. These experiences are clearly Christian. The players are Almighty God, who I've heard from so many times in my entire life and who guides me still, and Satan and his demons who torment me constantly and wish to take my very soul. Now, you say that my imagination is getting the best of me when I've seen things fly across the room, and when I've seen prophecies come to pass, and I've attacked viciously by demons, I've been spoken to audibly by both an angel and demon on separate occasions, and I've been spoken to by God himself my entire life. How do I know what's happening here? Well, God told me who he is, so I tend to believe him when he speaks, and the demons attacks are all trying to keep me from doing what God has called me to do, to try and hinder what God has purposed for me, and to try and pit me against those who God would have me love and against God himself, and to try and destroy my life, and every time God has been truthful when one finds out the truth of what both sides are saying, and the demons vicious liars. I do not doubt that the Hindus are having spiritual experiences with their gods, and I do not doubt that their gods are their gods. I simply contend that my God created their gods, that their gods are in rebellion to my god because they accepted worship when worship is only to God alone, and that their gods do not have the best of intentions for those worshipping them. I remember once buying a bunch of texts from other religions, the Quran, the Talmud, the Vedas, and Bahagavad gita. All the books were bought just out of curiosity but something was terribly wrong with Bahagavad gita specifically. It evoked a feeling on sinsterness, unease, and dread in me on a spiritual level. I had to pray over it to exercise whatever kind of thing was attached to it, because it had likely been involved in some kind of Hindu ritual. After praying over it, the room just felt clean, holy, like something terribly evil had left it and been cleansed from it. I don't think that people are special for having spiritual experiences. I think that if you seek spirits, they will find you, and sometimes, when you avoid them, they will find you also. The demons love this new age of materialism where many deny the supernatural and the spiritual. It plays right into their hand and their agenda. But when the cat is out of the bag and there's no longer any room for doubt the cat is out of the bag and they may not see such an urgency to hide, and to get the cat out of the bag, you just need to pull it out. In answer to your question about whose right regarding the spiritual experiences of the Christian and the Hindu, the obvious answer is both. There's no need to deny either. How you parse them out as compatible with one another, or how you interpret them in light of one another is up to you. I think that both the Christian and the Hindu have an explanation for this, but its very imperative that one finds the truth of which one is right in their interpretation, because it could cost you everything. I know what I believe, because I know exactly what I've seen and heard so I'm sticking with that. Theres that important part "Acording to the bible" I know what the bible says i was a Christian for 26yrs however just because a book says something that doesn't make it true And it is a undisputed fact that many of the Hindu gods have been around for way longer then the Abrahamic faith this is a fact independent of what claims are made in the bible because the upanishads make claims about the beginning of all creation so they must be true too right? And i never said people dont experience things but i explained why they interpret them the way they do and you being convinced of what you experienced doesnt mean anything other then that you are convinced by your own imagination, you clearly cant comprehend what im telling you which is to be expected, no one ever does and they just give me resons that ive heard before and are obviously fron the imagination. But you will be you. You didn't say that the Hindu gods were older than the Abrahamic faiths, you said that the Hindu gods are older than the Biblical God. This is untrue. The Biblical God is El, and El was worshipped by the Canaanites far before the Aryans ever got to India to found Hinduism whether you believe in the Bible or not. This is also rather undisputed because of the traceable history of both peoples. Caananites were civilized when India was still the Indus Valley Civilization and before Hinduism even existed. You can say that my interpretation of what I've seen and experienced comes from the imagination, but like I said, I think I'll take the things I've experienced's word for what they are themselves. If I'm wrong it comes from their imagination and not mine, but I truly doubt that is the case. I've got enough evidence from what I've seen to confirm the authenticity of it.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 16, 2023 17:52:03 GMT
Theres that important part "Acording to the bible" I know what the bible says i was a Christian for 26yrs however just because a book says something that doesn't make it true And it is a undisputed fact that many of the Hindu gods have been around for way longer then the Abrahamic faith this is a fact independent of what claims are made in the bible because the upanishads make claims about the beginning of all creation so they must be true too right? And i never said people dont experience things but i explained why they interpret them the way they do and you being convinced of what you experienced doesnt mean anything other then that you are convinced by your own imagination, you clearly cant comprehend what im telling you which is to be expected, no one ever does and they just give me resons that ive heard before and are obviously fron the imagination. But you will be you. You didn't say that the Hindu gods were older than the Abrahamic faiths, you said that the Hindu gods are older than the Biblical God. This is untrue. The Biblical God is El, and El was worshipped by the Canaanites far before the Aryans ever got to India to found Hinduism whether you believe in the Bible or not. This is also rather undisputed because of the traceable history of both peoples. Caananites were civilized when India was still the Indus Valley Civilization and before Hinduism even existed. You can say that my interpretation of what I've seen and experienced comes from the imagination, but like I said, I think I'll take the things I've experienced's word for what they are themselves. If I'm wrong it comes from their imagination and not mine, but I truly doubt that is the case. I've got enough evidence from what I've seen to confirm the authenticity of it. when i say tge Abrahamic faiths i am covering Christianity, Judaism, islam Which within those belief systems they believe is a sertan kind of god But they are just religions there are over 5200 of them . not 1 true one and the rest are fake Just a thousands of different ways the imagination has captured peoples minds
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 16, 2023 17:55:57 GMT
Theres that important part "Acording to the bible" I know what the bible says i was a Christian for 26yrs however just because a book says something that doesn't make it true And it is a undisputed fact that many of the Hindu gods have been around for way longer then the Abrahamic faith this is a fact independent of what claims are made in the bible because the upanishads make claims about the beginning of all creation so they must be true too right? And i never said people dont experience things but i explained why they interpret them the way they do and you being convinced of what you experienced doesnt mean anything other then that you are convinced by your own imagination, you clearly cant comprehend what im telling you which is to be expected, no one ever does and they just give me resons that ive heard before and are obviously fron the imagination. But you will be you. You didn't say that the Hindu gods were older than the Abrahamic faiths, you said that the Hindu gods are older than the Biblical God. This is untrue. The Biblical God is El, and El was worshipped by the Canaanites far before the Aryans ever got to India to found Hinduism whether you believe in the Bible or not. This is also rather undisputed because of the traceable history of both peoples. Caananites were civilized when India was still the Indus Valley Civilization and before Hinduism even existed. You can say that my interpretation of what I've seen and experienced comes from the imagination, but like I said, I think I'll take the things I've experienced's word for what they are themselves. If I'm wrong it comes from their imagination and not mine, but I truly doubt that is the case. I've got enough evidence from what I've seen to confirm the authenticity of it. And you have no evidence for any of it so you believe it to be true because you believe it thats it just like tge other people that experience things that contredict your religion so whos right? Obviously you right? Thought so.
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