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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 12, 2022 7:43:00 GMT
Let's say I know more than 1000 words in English (I hope I do). Among them there are verbs, nouns, adjectives, adverbs, pronouns, etc. If I can combine something with it, let's say a dog digs a dough, or kinda, then that sentence has already been in my vocabulary. The vocabulary - is linguistic or language-ish dimentions of knowledge. Let's say the same about electronics. If I can create a simple radio receiver with only one diode, one dynamic, and some long wires, then that ability is what within my knowledge. Keeping this way of describing it it becomes possible to count the knowledge, so the question is - for why do I need it?
I may doubt whether or not red mushrooms are needed to be watered at night, but it is an absurd to ask whether or not I am aware of that 'red mushrooms are needed to be watered at night' (or not). I do not need even that word. It can be used just as a universal synonym for cases in electronics, biology, etc. So, I might say some the elements of a human skeleton are bending in way of one of the parts of my knowledge is that some elements of a human skeleton are bending. So, for why to use that word 'to know'? It only put us into a maze of dizziness and umbiguitiness. I'd assume that there are so many philosophical concepts which only barrier and stop us, instead of let us further.
In this way, a person who studies philosophy is just a set of organic brakes. In turn, we might legally start asking ourselves, does philosphy make us dumber?
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Post by jonbain on Dec 13, 2022 7:23:30 GMT
Most human knowledge is fairly worthless, it seems, and we can answer your question in physical or spiritual terms.
The only worthwhile knowledge in physical terms is that which assists the defense of the ecosystem against the next meteor strike.
Why do we want to preserve the ecosystem? Well for the materialists, that is all there is, and for the spiritualists, its just a preferred existence aesthetically.
On a purely spiritual level, we need to know because we do not want to go to hell, and we need to know how that is. The materialist scoffs at this, but hell on earth would be to watch all of human endeavor get demolished by the next giant meteor.
And that rock is on the path it is on. That date is sealed in fate and time.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 13, 2022 13:18:52 GMT
Most human knowledge is fairly worthless, it seems, and we can answer your question in physical or spiritual terms. The only worthwhile knowledge in physical terms is that which assists the defense of the ecosystem against the next meteor strike. Why do we want to preserve the ecosystem? Well for the materialists, that is all there is, and for the spiritualists, its just a preferred existence aesthetically. On a purely spiritual level, we need to know because we do not want to go to hell, and we need to know how that is. The materialist scoffs at this, but hell on earth would be to watch all of human endeavor get demolished by the next giant meteor. And that rock is on the path it is on. That date is sealed in fate and time. 99% agree with you about the spiritual level. There's plenty of good reasons to stand with this view. Many times I asked myself, trying to critique a way of believing in a style of peripatetics which is – to consider that 'tables', 'trees', 'planets', 'nails', etc existed. Why not to wonder whether there are 'tables' or 'atoms'? The tiniest particles or the whole systematic universe? Not that I insist on either of those sides, but rather the ontological problem itself is not a useless question. Of course, if the Sun would blow didn't it mean that there were no humanity? No, it didn't. We can't take our flesh and bones as only what there is. The absurdity of such a materialistic view is enormous and shameful. This isn't better, than the semantic school in US in 20-30s. I forgot the name of it, but that school was indeed interesting and it had many followers. Also I remember a person from Poland headed that school. Briefly, they considered most of the psychological problems came from the wrong usage of names. They wanted to reveal functions of how semantic worked for individuals, and how they used it. In the result the school of them had been separated into groups, and later another one appeared – another one of the semantic analysis. And after that the movement was almost finished. That last one group seriously thought that in our head there were Marilyn Monroe, Coca-Cola, Santa Claus, etc. How did they try to find that out – hadn't been formed into a positive method. No chances they had to push those views forward. But the peripatetics and that semantic schools are similar at that ontological point – none of them cannot define and explain why there are different angles of things, and different points of views. (I'll try to add something later.)
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 13, 2022 14:01:34 GMT
jonbainI wanted to say by introducing those schools' views that it would be impossible to skip any formal or spiritual way of grasping the nature. Even Aristotle remarked itin his very first chapter of Metaphysics. (I'll add something a little later again.)
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 13, 2022 14:35:16 GMT
jonbainAlso an explanation of that why was I agree on 99% only was thing I wanted to add about the Orthodox tradition of Christianity, and partially the fact Slavoi Zizek discussed about it in some of his discussions ~15 years ago. There was a talk between Christianity, and the sacrifice aspect namely. Zizek agreed, even being an atheist, that Christianity (the Orthodox tradition of it) had a materialistic aspect that God became a person, so He literally materialized, and blessed some elements of the Earth (I guess ? Because I barely remember that whole discussion of him; by the way, I remember the name of that discussion, at least partially, it was something about the monstruosity of Christ... - that was a name, I suppose, Zizek proposed). Anyway, that can't be said, according to the Christianity, that at least a part of matter is blessed, and , therefore, we can hope being saved even participating something from the Earth. There is another point I am not sure, while I think that roughly I am correct — in African version of the Orthodoxy — smoking grass also is considered that a part of God's gift. Maybe I am wrong, but somehow God can talk via some conditions, and that condition results through some material elements, as with the grass.
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Post by jonbain on Dec 13, 2022 21:12:43 GMT
jonbain Also an explanation of that why was I agree on 99% only was thing I wanted to add about the Orthodox tradition of Christianity, and partially the fact Slavoi Zizek discussed about it in some of his discussions ~15 years ago. There was a talk between Christianity, and the sacrifice aspect namely. Zizek agreed, even being an atheist, that Christianity (the Orthodox tradition of it) had a materialistic aspect that God became a person, so He literally materialized, and blessed some elements of the Earth (I guess ? Because I barely remember that whole discussion of him; by the way, I remember the name of that discussion, at least partially, it was something about the monstruosity of Christ... - that was a name, I suppose, Zizek proposed). Anyway, that can't be said, according to the Christianity, that at least a part of matter is blessed, and , therefore, we can hope being saved even participating something from the Earth. There is another point I am not sure, while I think that roughly I am correct — in African version of the Orthodoxy — smoking grass also is considered that a part of God's gift. Maybe I am wrong, but somehow God can talk via some conditions, and that condition results through some material elements, as with the grass.
Revelations 22:2
The leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations. ....
The fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, is a literal fruit.
Those who partake will know, others fear the truth of what they are within, so
they see the terrible consequence which awaits their evil deeds and so they blame the messenger
Rene Descartes, used it
certainly inspired the philosophy which gave birth to the method of science.
If you do not try you will never know.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 13, 2022 22:26:26 GMT
jonbain Also an explanation of that why was I agree on 99% only was thing I wanted to add about the Orthodox tradition of Christianity, and partially the fact Slavoi Zizek discussed about it in some of his discussions ~15 years ago. There was a talk between Christianity, and the sacrifice aspect namely. Zizek agreed, even being an atheist, that Christianity (the Orthodox tradition of it) had a materialistic aspect that God became a person, so He literally materialized, and blessed some elements of the Earth (I guess ? Because I barely remember that whole discussion of him; by the way, I remember the name of that discussion, at least partially, it was something about the monstruosity of Christ... - that was a name, I suppose, Zizek proposed). Anyway, that can't be said, according to the Christianity, that at least a part of matter is blessed, and , therefore, we can hope being saved even participating something from the Earth. There is another point I am not sure, while I think that roughly I am correct — in African version of the Orthodoxy — smoking grass also is considered that a part of God's gift. Maybe I am wrong, but somehow God can talk via some conditions, and that condition results through some material elements, as with the grass.
Revelations 22:2
The leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations. ....
The fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, is a literal fruit.
Those who partake will know, others fear the truth of what they are within, so
they see the terrible consequence which awaits their evil deeds and so they blame the messenger
Rene Descartes, used it
certainly inspired the philosophy which gave birth to the method of science.
If you do not try you will never know.
The world, or the universe, might have been infected with a terrible plague, however the worse illness is not a problem for the best doctor, which is God. He is the healer. And why souls should be put into this prison of matter? Maybe it is the process of cure. Like, you know, drinking bitter medical mixtures. Even smoking isn't such a pleasure; the pleasure is the results of it.
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Post by jonbain on Dec 15, 2022 8:01:49 GMT
Revelations 22:2
The leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations. ....
The fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, is a literal fruit.
Those who partake will know, others fear the truth of what they are within, so
they see the terrible consequence which awaits their evil deeds and so they blame the messenger
Rene Descartes, used it
certainly inspired the philosophy which gave birth to the method of science.
If you do not try you will never know.
The world, or the universe, might have been infected with a terrible plague, however the worse illness is not a problem for the best doctor, which is God. He is the healer. And why souls should be put into this prison of matter? Maybe it is the process of cure. Like, you know, drinking bitter medical mixtures. Even smoking isn't such a pleasure; the pleasure is the results of it. The flavor can vary massively, as too the potency varies. If its a bit old, it tastes bitter, but retains its effectiveness.
And why souls should be put into this prison of matter?
They put themselves here for many reasons, none but our selves can free our minds
But it seems to me that angels hide amongst those leaves, hoping
some will partake of the knowledge of both good and evil, for they are inseparable
but the honest soul has nothing to fear
but pity those that are fearful
its just one breath away whether life or death or heaven or hell
or all of them wrapped together bits of mother earth wrapped preciously sold illegally
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 15, 2022 8:12:52 GMT
The world, or the universe, might have been infected with a terrible plague, however the worse illness is not a problem for the best doctor, which is God. He is the healer. And why souls should be put into this prison of matter? Maybe it is the process of cure. Like, you know, drinking bitter medical mixtures. Even smoking isn't such a pleasure; the pleasure is the results of it. The flavor can vary massively, as too the potency varies. If its a bit old, it tastes bitter, but retains its effectiveness.
And why souls should be put into this prison of matter?
They put themselves here for many reasons, none but our selves can free our minds
But it seems to me that angels hide amongst those leaves, hoping
some will partake of the knowledge of both good and evil, for they are inseparable
but the honest soul has nothing to fear
but pity those that are fearful
its just one breath away whether life or death or heaven or hell
or all of them wrapped together bits of mother earth wrapped preciously sold illegally
Maybe it is, but why God turned into the flesh & bones transformed into a human? And why God blessed the food: wine and bread, which are the part of this world? I agree that the matter is rather the temporary lair for us, however, if to start doubt into the matter in general we risk to become Gnostics, who were rejecting any matter.
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Post by jonbain on Dec 15, 2022 19:09:38 GMT
The flavor can vary massively, as too the potency varies. If its a bit old, it tastes bitter, but retains its effectiveness.
And why souls should be put into this prison of matter?
They put themselves here for many reasons, none but our selves can free our minds
But it seems to me that angels hide amongst those leaves, hoping
some will partake of the knowledge of both good and evil, for they are inseparable
but the honest soul has nothing to fear
but pity those that are fearful
its just one breath away whether life or death or heaven or hell
or all of them wrapped together bits of mother earth wrapped preciously sold illegally
Maybe it is, but why God turned into the flesh & bones transformed into a human? And why God blessed the food: wine and bread, which are the part of this world? I agree that the matter is rather the temporary lair for us, however, if to start doubt into the matter in general we risk to become Gnostics, who were rejecting any matter. as far as i know, the gnostics simply claimed direct knowledge of god, that the spiritual was simply superior to the material, that is not a rejection of matter, but a command over it
truth is a puff of sweet smoke and spirit is not limited to any confined physical form but transforms between ghost, plant and man, day-dreams become alive,
and travels to other realms at night are more real than sunrise
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 15, 2022 22:33:37 GMT
Maybe it is, but why God turned into the flesh & bones transformed into a human? And why God blessed the food: wine and bread, which are the part of this world? I agree that the matter is rather the temporary lair for us, however, if to start doubt into the matter in general we risk to become Gnostics, who were rejecting any matter. as far as i know, the gnostics simply claimed direct knowledge of god, that the spiritual was simply superior to the material, that is not a rejection of matter, but a command over it
truth is a puff of sweet smoke and spirit is not limited to any confined physical form but transforms between ghost, plant and man, day-dreams become alive,
and travels to other realms at night are more real than sunrise
Even so God is the creator also of the matter. Through it people may participate God, like, for instance, bless their bread or other products - anything they have gotten by working with matter in different way - to God. Of course, God doesn't need in any of it, it is for sure, while people may do it as an act of their sincerity. Even if people don't need to do any of this, I don't think God rejects such a way of blessing Him. If a person does his business well, he may give a part of his finance to the church as an act of pleasing God. Or to give a part of his money to someone else who's needed in it. And, yes, God dosn't ask people do this, however in Gospels many times such acts are being emphasized by Christ. I do agree that the spirit does not need any matter to exist. And at the same time, we're living in the world of matter, rather than a spiritual world, aren't we? We're not like bird flying over the skies totally freely, only watching the snow'd pikes of the ice mountains, breathing the cleanest air, and observing the vast lands... No, we're more like turtles in our material shells.
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Post by jonbain on Dec 16, 2022 5:56:24 GMT
Eugene 2.0Is this a material world? How do we know? When I dream, I am just as sure that what I see is real. Or is it that the dream is also a material world? Is there really a meaningful difference between the concepts of spirit and body? Or is it more a matter of perspective? When we look back at a dream, we do not use the term 'material' to describe the dream, does that make dreams spiritual? But when we dream, we seldom even comprehend it different to this world. It certainly has all the primary forms of shape and color and words. I cannot accept any ontological difference between dream/spirit/material. Though I do have vivid memory of moving from being awake and being totally aware of 'falling asleep' on a few occasions, where its like diving into a lake, like moving between worlds. Its sad that some dismiss their dreams as not real. Such people are typically stressed, depressed.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Dec 21, 2022 6:10:55 GMT
Let's say I know more than 1000 words in English (I hope I do). Among them there are verbs, nouns, adjectives, adverbs, pronouns, etc. If I can combine something with it, let's say a dog digs a dough, or kinda, then that sentence has already been in my vocabulary. The vocabulary - is linguistic or language-ish dimentions of knowledge. Let's say the same about electronics. If I can create a simple radio receiver with only one diode, one dynamic, and some long wires, then that ability is what within my knowledge. Keeping this way of describing it it becomes possible to count the knowledge, so the question is - for why do I need it? I may doubt whether or not red mushrooms are needed to be watered at night, but it is an absurd to ask whether or not I am aware of that 'red mushrooms are needed to be watered at night' (or not). I do not need even that word. It can be used just as a universal synonym for cases in electronics, biology, etc. So, I might say some the elements of a human skeleton are bending in way of one of the parts of my knowledge is that some elements of a human skeleton are bending. So, for why to use that word 'to know'? It only put us into a maze of dizziness and umbiguitiness. I'd assume that there are so many philosophical concepts which only barrier and stop us, instead of let us further. In this way, a person who studies philosophy is just a set of organic brakes. In turn, we might legally start asking ourselves, does philosphy make us dumber? Funny you mentioned making a radio because I just made a common collector class A amplifier usi!g a single 2s5198 Toshiba transistor sounds marvelous except the bass is pathetically weak and has distortion so I've got some more tweaking to do but I made it out of 100% scrap parts from other electronics so I can't complain I guess
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