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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 16, 2022 10:28:04 GMT
Before death nobody asks what you have spoken, everyone is interested in what you have done.
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Post by joustos on Jun 16, 2022 15:00:27 GMT
...but what you have spoken is something you have done...
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Post by MAYA-EL on Jun 16, 2022 16:06:37 GMT
...but what you have spoken is something you have done... That's not how language works. You can use language to speak about what you have done, or you can use language to hypothesize, or you can even use language to completely lie.
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Post by joustos on Jun 16, 2022 21:07:39 GMT
Speaking or talking IS a deed, an activity; however, Eugene may have used the verb TO DO in the sense of To Make/Produce or To Do Socially, which is indeed quite distinct from WHAT is spoken/said Anyway, what he said does not seem to be relevant to what the thread is about -- the meaning of life.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Jun 17, 2022 8:39:32 GMT
Speaking or talking IS a deed, an activity; however, Eugene may have used the verb TO DO in the sense of To Make/Produce or To Do Socially, which is indeed quite distinct from WHAT is spoken/said Anyway, what he said does not seem to be relevant to what the thread is about -- the meaning of life. No it's speaking and you can speak about a deed but speaking is not and has never been in the category of things that have been done called that are referred to as deeds seeing as the word deed implies a physical action. All semantics in the end however I just find it ironic that you say he is using the wrong word while you do the very thing you are accusing him of doing
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Post by joustos on Jun 17, 2022 14:14:18 GMT
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE??? ============================ Eugene, I would narrow down this question to WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE PURPOSE OF HUMAN LIFE? Take a car: what is its objective purpose, the built-in purpose? Well, it does not have an obj. purpose, since "purpose" is an intention, a forward looking, an objective/aim, or the reason why something is done. Humans have intentions/purposes but as such, they are subjective, not parts of any human being, and do not define what any human being exists FOR. Ah, some Chistians will say, humans exist FOR preparing themselves to be with God, but if this were a built-in purpose, it would be present in everyone. It is, they say, at least as an aspiration. // A car can be said to have purposes, which we find out by the uses to which it can be put. Humans can be said to have purposes, which we find out from what the strive for and what they do. In these cases, we should speak of a new category of Purpose, namely ENACTMENT PURPOSE, that is, other than Objective and Subjective. Thus, some people are musicians and therefore exist for the purpose of being musicians. But then some people exist for the purpose of being thieves. This sounds almost as if these purposes were personally objective, as if humans were predestined to be what they become, whether by divine disposition or by chance.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 17, 2022 17:29:59 GMT
I apologize if I haven't answered the direct question. Just for now I want to say these:
a) firstly, I wanted to answer to demonstrate that I agree with you both, but it's not so easy to demonstrate it
b) that requirement (a) - to explain or to demonstrate it - is already a verbal function, so from this point for view Joustos is right
c) however, I still think that the languages are different, and letters, vowels are changing, so the meaning behind is more important, than the words themselves
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 17, 2022 17:45:33 GMT
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE??? ============================ Eugene, I would narrow down this question to WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE PURPOSE OF HUMAN LIFE? Take a car: what is its objective purpose, the built-in purpose? Well, it does not have an obj. purpose, since "purpose" is an intention, a forward looking, an objective/aim, or the reason why something is done. Humans have intentions/purposes but as such, they are subjective, not parts of any human being, and do not define what any human being exists FOR. Ah, some Chistians will say, humans exist FOR preparing themselves to be with God, but if this were a built-in purpose, it would be present in everyone. It is, they say, at least as an aspiration. // A car can be said to have purposes, which we find out by the uses to which it can be put. Humans can be said to have purposes, which we find out from what the strive for and what they do. In these cases, we should speak of a new category of Purpose, namely ENACTMENT PURPOSE, that is, other than Objective and Subjective. Thus, some people are musicians and therefore exist for the purpose of being musicians. But then some people exist for the purpose of being thieves. This sounds almost as if these purposes were personally objective, as if humans were predestined to be what they become, whether by divine disposition or by chance. I accept your objections. Let me get some things straight: i) I didn't have an intention to emphasize on the meaning/the purpose of something, but I couldn't think anything better (this might be a fault of mine, or a little bit laziness) ii) actually, even accepting the objections as such as yours (I consider them to be skeptical, but I might be wrong at this. I mean skeptical about having objective purposes for a human which leads to the famous contradiction of the predestination) there's also the semantic paradox occurs. Here's how I see this paradox: 1) here lines 'a' for 'a', 'b' for 'b', etc. 1a) all the words are meaningless 1b) all the words have wrong meanings 1c) some words are meaningless 1d) some words have wrong meanings 2) for cases (c) and (d) we can remove the rest statement, and move to (a) and (b) 2a) then the statement (1a) is meaningless 2b) then the statement (1b) has the wrong meaning 3a) therefore, there's a contradiction/falsely/meaningless 3b) therefore, there's a contradiction/falsely/meaningless The case of the objectively purposes may be taken as case 1c or 1d. I don't think that we can remove the meaning/the purpose so easily, even if we would dare to do this. I agree there may be different outcomes, it might be that there is no purposes at all, however, I cannot accept no_paradoxality of this. I think there are more than enough the underwater rocks to just pass 'em through easily. iii) By no means, the meaning of life as a title - is just as a bright neon sign-board, no more. It doesn't mean I refuse to be curious about this question, no - I still do not know what the life is?
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Post by MAYA-EL on Jun 18, 2022 1:03:56 GMT
To me the question what is the meaning of life seems nonsensical, are people actually trying to ask "why are we here?" and or "what are we supposed to do while we're here"
Because meaning is something that people give to things, so we give life meaning, and we shouldn't ask what's life's meaning, unless we are meaningless?
Which I don't feel meaningless I feel like I have a value and I'm an individual, and so because I'm an individual, with some form of value, that means I'm capable of giving meaning to things
therefore if I give meaning to things wouldn't it be logical to then assume that it's are job to give life meaning? and not the other way around?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 18, 2022 9:41:43 GMT
To me the question what is the meaning of life seems nonsensical, are people actually trying to ask "why are we here?" and or "what are we supposed to do while we're here" Because meaning is something that people give to things, so we give life meaning, and we shouldn't ask what's life's meaning, unless we are meaningless? Which I don't feel meaningless I feel like I have a value and I'm an individual, and so because I'm an individual, with some form of value, that means I'm capable of giving meaning to things therefore if I give meaning to things wouldn't it be logical to then assume that it's are job to give life meaning? and not the other way around? I don't think it's meaningless to ask about meaning. Even making mistakes isn't purposeless. One may ask 'where to go?' while indeed he's asking 'may I get acquainted with you?'. Perhaps, it's better to stay on a pragmatic way asking not 'it's not good to ask a certain question', but to ask 'which result it may bring'.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 18, 2022 9:42:25 GMT
By the way, I've found an English idiom that may replace my topic more or less enough:
"a man is judged by his deeds, not by his words"
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Post by MAYA-EL on Jun 21, 2022 4:29:12 GMT
To me the question what is the meaning of life seems nonsensical, are people actually trying to ask "why are we here?" and or "what are we supposed to do while we're here" Because meaning is something that people give to things, so we give life meaning, and we shouldn't ask what's life's meaning, unless we are meaningless? Which I don't feel meaningless I feel like I have a value and I'm an individual, and so because I'm an individual, with some form of value, that means I'm capable of giving meaning to things therefore if I give meaning to things wouldn't it be logical to then assume that it's are job to give life meaning? and not the other way around? I don't think it's meaningless to ask about meaning. Even making mistakes isn't purposeless. One may ask 'where to go?' while indeed he's asking 'may I get acquainted with you?'. Perhaps, it's better to stay on a pragmatic way asking not 'it's not good to ask a certain question', but to ask 'which result it may bring'. I guess what I'm trying to say is that asking what is the meaning of life is a cart before the horse kind of question because we have to give things meaning and so things as well as us all have to exist first so that we can then give them meaning so then if we're asking a question about a time before meaning was even capable of existing then that makes it kind of the wrong thing to ask, don't you think?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 22, 2022 14:48:39 GMT
I don't think it's meaningless to ask about meaning. Even making mistakes isn't purposeless. One may ask 'where to go?' while indeed he's asking 'may I get acquainted with you?'. Perhaps, it's better to stay on a pragmatic way asking not 'it's not good to ask a certain question', but to ask 'which result it may bring'. I guess what I'm trying to say is that asking what is the meaning of life is a cart before the horse kind of question because we have to give things meaning and so things as well as us all have to exist first so that we can then give them meaning so then if we're asking a question about a time before meaning was even capable of existing then that makes it kind of the wrong thing to ask, don't you think? And how we stick the meaning to things? Or how a certain thing gets a meaning? I don't think that giving meaning to things is possible be done without using any previous meaning. In many cases we try to do things intentionally, putting into it some meaning. But yes, I do agree with you, before asking about meaning the meaning must have been put into things.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Jun 23, 2022 4:00:28 GMT
I guess what I'm trying to say is that asking what is the meaning of life is a cart before the horse kind of question because we have to give things meaning and so things as well as us all have to exist first so that we can then give them meaning so then if we're asking a question about a time before meaning was even capable of existing then that makes it kind of the wrong thing to ask, don't you think? And how we stick the meaning to things? Or how a certain thing gets a meaning? I don't think that giving meaning to things is possible be done without using any previous meaning. In many cases we try to do things intentionally, putting into it some meaning. But yes, I do agree with you, before asking about meaning the meaning must have been put into things. I think it's probably that we get the general meaning of things by observing those we are around as we grow up We see people interacting with the world and how and why they do what they do and so we assume the meaning of things when we are old enough to interact with the world are selves. I know that was the case for me when I ran away from my family home, Growing up alone in the woods the only knowledge I had of the world was from the twisted perspective of my mother and her being a end of the world Christan cult kind of person that means that her opinion was far from the accurate view of this world and so it was a shock to me when I was on my own because everything wasn't like my mom had made it out to be so it was a lot like a identity loss as I had to create an opinion on everything again and I don't think people realize just how much of there identity is rooted in their opinions of the world
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 23, 2022 4:20:12 GMT
And how we stick the meaning to things? Or how a certain thing gets a meaning? I don't think that giving meaning to things is possible be done without using any previous meaning. In many cases we try to do things intentionally, putting into it some meaning. But yes, I do agree with you, before asking about meaning the meaning must have been put into things. I think it's probably that we get the general meaning of things by observing those we are around as we grow up We see people interacting with the world and how and why they do what they do and so we assume the meaning of things when we are old enough to interact with the world are selves. I know that was the case for me when I ran away from my family home, Growing up alone in the woods the only knowledge I had of the world was from the twisted perspective of my mother and her being a end of the world Christan cult kind of person that means that her opinion was far from the accurate view of this world and so it was a shock to me when I was on my own because everything wasn't like my mom had made it out to be so it was a lot like a identity loss as I had to create an opinion on everything again and I don't think people realize just how much of there identity is rooted in their opinions of the world Yes, I think it's possible to get meaning by learning or via education. Many people I've met here have cruel and unfair destiny. it's very difficult to read another story without tears. I'm very sorry for your family, Maya-el. But I am sure you don't have to give up. This demonstrate how strong person you are. It seems any obstacles for you are not the ultimate barrier.
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