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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 4, 2022 16:33:32 GMT
Seneca said: "The willing, destiny guides them; the unwilling, destiny drags them". I'd better choose to fight with the one even if it costs me my own being. Considering the circumstances of death of the philosopher I'd response to Mr. Seneca: "It is better die by your own hand, than by your destiny!".
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Post by joustos on Jun 4, 2022 21:52:04 GMT
How can anyone struggle with something that does not exist? In the Age of Romanticism they used to say that one (e.g., Beethoven) struggled with Fate. These metaphorical ways of speaking should be translated into psychological terms. We have desires and urges, but we are also subjected to drives or seemingly external forces. Internal conflicts and struggles can ensue.... The opposition between will and destiny does not make sense to me, since one's destiny is unknown to a person. If there is an objective destiny, is it not the outcome of the will? ... and so forth...
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Post by jonbain on Jun 5, 2022 12:12:54 GMT
How can anyone struggle with something that does not exist? In the Age of Romanticism they used to say that one (e.g., Beethoven) struggled with Fate. These metaphorical ways of speaking should be translated into psychological terms. We have desires and urges, but we are also subjected to drives or seemingly external forces. Internal conflicts and struggles can ensue.... The opposition between will and destiny does not make sense to me, since one's destiny is unknown to a person. If there is an objective destiny, is it not the outcome of the will? ... and so forth...
The movement of the earth and moon around the sun,
and ensuing tides and seasons of climate and war, these are all destiny.
We choose so little, only the will to think, or not think ;
I take to be the only genuine act of free will ; seeing as we can only know our next thoughts after we have chosen to continue thinking.
But will and destiny are both evident. Unless its all just a dream and I am but a figment of your imagination.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Jun 5, 2022 12:21:49 GMT
How can anyone struggle with something that does not exist? In the Age of Romanticism they used to say that one (e.g., Beethoven) struggled with Fate. These metaphorical ways of speaking should be translated into psychological terms. We have desires and urges, but we are also subjected to drives or seemingly external forces. Internal conflicts and struggles can ensue.... The opposition between will and destiny does not make sense to me, since one's destiny is unknown to a person. If there is an objective destiny, is it not the outcome of the will? ... and so forth... Thank you for replying. Well, I can't say a thought of the unpredictability of destiny has never visited me. Sure, nobody knows what's gonna happen tomorrow, but when we go somewhere, let's say shopping, aren't we take wallets or phones with us? The same is about dating. I don't know whether or not that particular girl is going to the cinema with me, but even if she doesn't I always got another one to pick (it's just an example =) ). Two things: I agree the destiny is unpredictable, but I cannot disagree that we cannot suppose anything. I like the Age of Romanticism. No, can't say I love all their witty tags, while there were interesting persons I like. Mery Shelley, Percy Shelly, Lord Byron, etc. Plus to it, this epoch opened such a literature genre as the supernatural. For me it doesn't really matter which epoch or era is is, Medieval or Postmodernism. There are good and bad people are to be found elsewhen. Metamorphosis with the term - this is a very scientifical and meaningfulness one, but I'm not an expert about this, can't say much. You're the one who are able to, not me. That's how I see the destiny and the struggle with it: x - is taking part in an event E: x is typing this textE - is something that can be described with a sentence: x will be eating borscht at noon tomorrowthe Destiny D - is a series of E for x at the moment to the future: x walks to the park, x is reading a book in the park...to Struggle D - is doing something to prevent D' be equal to D, where D' - is changed D: a) would have happen: x walks along the street T, x sits on a bench, x is reading a book... b) will have happen: x walks along the street T, x sist on a bench, x is smoking...
I know that there may be some objections toward the struggle D`, because how can we know that a), not b) will happen? And if b) will happen, then a) wouldn't have happen, so a) is just impossible, and so on. I believe choice is possible, and it is my will to change something what I am able to and can do this. Depending on the actions, considering physics is determinated, the future can be changed. According to the Destiny, I cannot change the events, although... I don't think this type of thinking is the only one that we can aim. No, I think there may be Destiny, and along with that we can change. What kind of Destiny is it this time? This type of Destiny is not the exact event or a series of event, but a meta-structure or meta-sentence, that controls the future events. What does it mean? Let's take such an explanation: even if the universe would be blown up, then in the aeons of centuries we would get back to the positions we are now, and continued. So, according to this, the world (W) is just a set of conditions of atoms... Can't say this is a good theory. No, this is not the one. Anyway, to struggle this type of destiny is just the same as to try to fight against the whole being, the existence, the philosophy. This is to overcome the destiny. The pure transcendence. If a person is mortal, so maybe for this person is the most true way is to become immortal? (I don't know that was just an example.)
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