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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 20, 2021 10:44:56 GMT
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone" J. M. Keynes  |
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Post by karl on Nov 20, 2021 14:13:26 GMT
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone" J. M. Keynes
I don't believe in pure capitalism, but capitalism as a core foundation of a country's economy allows for the young people to test new ideas on the market place. A planned economy is administrated by the middle aged and old, whose outdated dreams will lead to stagnation. Like when the Soviet union in the 1970's focused on beating the US in steel production, while young Americans were laying the grounds for the digital revolution.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 20, 2021 16:36:19 GMT
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone" J. M. Keynes I don't believe in pure capitalism, but capitalism as a core foundation of a country's economy allows for the young people to test new ideas on the market place. A planned economy is administrated by the middle aged and old, whose outdated dreams will lead to stagnation. Like when the Soviet union in the 1970's focused on beating the US in steel production, while young Americans were laying the grounds for the digital revolution.
Thank you for a comment. Karl, I'm not a leftist, nor a cancel culture adept. Despite this fact I believe the Keynes's quote to be true. What makes you think the owners of big capital would be less sharky to stop fighting for new and new money? As commies so caps – the same, absolutely the same. I don't think that your presuppositions were true. Could be, that the most modern capitalistic counties demonstrate rather progress, than regress for now, otherwise it doesn't mean there may be no negative results later. It highly depends on as culture so the owner of big capital personally – which are they. If, for instance, the Earth had been set to blow or had been destroyed sooner, would you believe the owners of big capital be starting to help the others? It's a naïve scenario. The same is going on with spreading of the virus now. I see many capitalists are trying to catch some of $$ now, instead of giving a hand to many. Soviet Union had its own cruel demons, unlike other countries had greedy ones. There are still wars for resources as from the capitalistic side so from the communistics. |
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Post by karl on Nov 20, 2021 19:00:45 GMT
I don't believe in pure capitalism, but capitalism as a core foundation of a country's economy allows for the young people to test new ideas on the market place. A planned economy is administrated by the middle aged and old, whose outdated dreams will lead to stagnation. Like when the Soviet union in the 1970's focused on beating the US in steel production, while young Americans were laying the grounds for the digital revolution.
Thank you for a comment. Karl, I'm not a leftist, nor a cancel culture adept. Despite this fact I believe the Keynes's quote to be true. What makes you think the owners of big capital would be less sharky to stop fighting for new and new money? As commies so caps – the same, absolutely the same. I don't think that your presuppositions were true. Could be, that the most modern capitalistic counties demonstrate rather progress, than regress for now, otherwise it doesn't mean there may be no negative results later. It highly depends on as culture so the owner of big capital personally – which are they. If, for instance, the Earth had been set to blow or had been destroyed sooner, would you believe the owners of big capital be starting to help the others? It's a naïve scenario. The same is going on with spreading of the virus now. I see many capitalists are trying to catch some of $$ now, instead of giving a hand to many. Soviet Union had its own cruel demons, unlike other countries had greedy ones. There are still wars for resources as from the capitalistic side so from the communistics.
I'm not at all disputing that capitalism allows for greed and exploitation, which is why I do not support pure capitalism. I believe in minimum wage, work safety, and other essential regulations. -As well as welfare, such as unemployment benefits and universal healthcare. So, in that respect, I support Keynes over the free market liberalists.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 21, 2021 8:58:30 GMT
Thank you for a comment. Karl, I'm not a leftist, nor a cancel culture adept. Despite this fact I believe the Keynes's quote to be true. What makes you think the owners of big capital would be less sharky to stop fighting for new and new money? As commies so caps – the same, absolutely the same. I don't think that your presuppositions were true. Could be, that the most modern capitalistic counties demonstrate rather progress, than regress for now, otherwise it doesn't mean there may be no negative results later. It highly depends on as culture so the owner of big capital personally – which are they. If, for instance, the Earth had been set to blow or had been destroyed sooner, would you believe the owners of big capital be starting to help the others? It's a naïve scenario. The same is going on with spreading of the virus now. I see many capitalists are trying to catch some of $$ now, instead of giving a hand to many. Soviet Union had its own cruel demons, unlike other countries had greedy ones. There are still wars for resources as from the capitalistic side so from the communistics.
I'm not at all disputing that capitalism allows for greed and exploitation, which is why I do not support pure capitalism. I believe in minimum wage, work safety, and other essential regulations. -As well as welfare, such as unemployment benefits and universal healthcare. So, in that respect, I support Keynes over the free market liberalists.
Thank you for commenting again. I guess there's no need to argue it more since we've got some agreements, and further discussion probably won't be the discussion itself. One thing caught me in your very first commentary – it was a thought youth have better condition without administrative type of power. Despite the fact this at many primary aspects is true, this thought has its flaws. The youth may become better citizens not only living under heaven, they may advance their skills in war too. By this I'd like to say difficult conditions may be a good (if not better) polygon for obtaining relevant skills. Also some of disappointments of mine come not from your argument, but it's a thing I'd like to add here. I believe as capitalism so communism along with the other ones ideologies have psychology background, which is taken by me as kinda false-leading or a wrong way. I don't think anyone following psychological backgrounds of ideologies will find anything useful. Psychology is not Philosophy, and it's mostly about helping despair people (but I'm not sure their methods can be a cure in its primary sense; Religion is better, as I think), not telling which one theory I should head. Psychology as for me is being used kinda rhetoric or a type of the cure that may be used to cure, for example, drug addicts, if we would assure them to use "drugs" giving them instead some pills. |
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Post by karl on Nov 21, 2021 19:50:48 GMT
I'm not at all disputing that capitalism allows for greed and exploitation, which is why I do not support pure capitalism. I believe in minimum wage, work safety, and other essential regulations. -As well as welfare, such as unemployment benefits and universal healthcare. So, in that respect, I support Keynes over the free market liberalists.
Thank you for commenting again. I guess there's no need to argue it more since we've got some agreements, and further discussion probably won't be the discussion itself. One thing caught me in your very first commentary – it was a thought youth have better condition without administrative type of power. Despite the fact this at many primary aspects is true, this thought has its flaws. The youth may become better citizens not only living under heaven, they may advance their skills in war too. By this I'd like to say difficult conditions may be a good (if not better) polygon for obtaining relevant skills. Also some of disappointments of mine come not from your argument, but it's a thing I'd like to add here. I believe as capitalism so communism along with the other ones ideologies have psychology background, which is taken by me as kinda false-leading or a wrong way. I don't think anyone following psychological backgrounds of ideologies will find anything useful. Psychology is not Philosophy, and it's mostly about helping despair people (but I'm not sure their methods can be a cure in its primary sense; Religion is better, as I think), not telling which one theory I should head. Psychology as for me is being used kinda rhetoric or a type of the cure that may be used to cure, for example, drug addicts, if we would assure them to use "drugs" giving them instead some pills.
You mean capitalism is an ideology and that all ideologies have a psychological foundation rather than being based on a consistent philosophy? In my view, all ideological thinking has its roots in romanticism, which emphasizes one's intuitive experience of reality. One attempts to conceal this with ideological rhetoric, which gives the pretense of objective truth. -Like how the environmental movement pretends to be all science based, but has its foundation in romanticism's worship of nature.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 22, 2021 3:54:12 GMT
Thank you for commenting again. I guess there's no need to argue it more since we've got some agreements, and further discussion probably won't be the discussion itself. One thing caught me in your very first commentary – it was a thought youth have better condition without administrative type of power. Despite the fact this at many primary aspects is true, this thought has its flaws. The youth may become better citizens not only living under heaven, they may advance their skills in war too. By this I'd like to say difficult conditions may be a good (if not better) polygon for obtaining relevant skills. Also some of disappointments of mine come not from your argument, but it's a thing I'd like to add here. I believe as capitalism so communism along with the other ones ideologies have psychology background, which is taken by me as kinda false-leading or a wrong way. I don't think anyone following psychological backgrounds of ideologies will find anything useful. Psychology is not Philosophy, and it's mostly about helping despair people (but I'm not sure their methods can be a cure in its primary sense; Religion is better, as I think), not telling which one theory I should head. Psychology as for me is being used kinda rhetoric or a type of the cure that may be used to cure, for example, drug addicts, if we would assure them to use "drugs" giving them instead some pills.
You mean capitalism is an ideology and that all ideologies have a psychological foundation rather than being based on a consistent philosophy? In my view, all ideological thinking has its roots in romanticism, which emphasizes one's intuitive experience of reality. One attempts to conceal this with ideological rhetoric, which gives the pretense of objective truth. -Like how the environmental movement pretends to be all science based, but has its foundation in romanticism's worship of nature.
Sorry for not answering at the time. Was quite busy, and couldn't concentrate. B. Russell in "Wise of the West", and mainly in "History of Western Philosophy" had just the same opinion about the romanticism. I do agree that that period proves those ideological thoughts to appear; only I couldn't understand what did you mean by " which emphasizes one's intuitive experience of reality" and " Like how the environmental movement pretends to be all science based, but has its foundation in romanticism's worship of nature".I'd like to add more to the theme, and especially to the idea Psychology/Philosophy, but without using keyboards it's uneasy for me right now. |
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 22, 2021 18:39:23 GMT
karlI wanted to say by Psychology/Philosophy that ideologies is something that must be checked firstly, amd not accepted. On the other hand, the accepting person choses one's own will by that deliberate act of choice. (I mean sometimes it's possible in religious cases, etc.) Psychology is just another "church" that tries to persuade us in something, let's say daughters love their fathers like mythical Electra loved hers. Or persuading us to visit a psychologist on Sundays, etc. In turn, an arbitrator to ideologies only philosophy must be.
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Post by karl on Nov 22, 2021 20:08:50 GMT
You mean capitalism is an ideology and that all ideologies have a psychological foundation rather than being based on a consistent philosophy? In my view, all ideological thinking has its roots in romanticism, which emphasizes one's intuitive experience of reality. One attempts to conceal this with ideological rhetoric, which gives the pretense of objective truth. -Like how the environmental movement pretends to be all science based, but has its foundation in romanticism's worship of nature.
Sorry for not answering at the time. Was quite busy, and couldn't concentrate. B. Russell in "Wise of the West", and mainly in "History of Western Philosophy" had just the same opinion about the romanticism. I do agree that that period proves those ideological thoughts to appear; only I couldn't understand what did you mean by " which emphasizes one's intuitive experience of reality" and " Like how the environmental movement pretends to be all science based, but has its foundation in romanticism's worship of nature".I'd like to add more to the theme, and especially to the idea Psychology/Philosophy, but without using keyboards it's uneasy for me right now.
In romanticism, the conception of anything is indistinguable from the individual's intuitive experience of it. Nature becomes our emotional and intuitive experience of it. God exists, because we intuitively experience that God exists. The nation becomes a metaphysical entity to be worshipped because the masses feels that it is.
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Post by thesageofmainstreet on Nov 22, 2021 21:10:33 GMT
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone" J. M. Keynes
I don't believe in pure capitalism, but capitalism as a core foundation of a country's economy allows for the young people to test new ideas on the market place. A planned economy is administrated by the middle aged and old, whose outdated dreams will lead to stagnation. Like when the Soviet union in the 1970's focused on beating the US in steel production, while young Americans were laying the grounds for the digital revolution.
It's not logical to think that a system that claims to replace Capitalism must be the opposite of it. Stick to describing Capitalism. Despite the narrowed debate, there are other systems besides those two, and the best system would be one that hasn't been tried or even proposed. |
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Post by thesageofmainstreet on Nov 22, 2021 21:28:11 GMT
karl I wanted to say by Psychology/Philosophy that ideologies is something that must be checked firstly, amd not accepted. On the other hand, the accepting person choses one's own will by that deliberate act of choice. (I mean sometimes it's possible in religious cases, etc.) Psychology is just another "church" that tries to persuade us in something, let's say daughters love their fathers like mythical Electra loved hers. Or persuading us to visit a psychologist on Sundays, etc. In turn, an arbitrator to ideologies only philosophy must be. Communism does have its source in a Freudian insight. It was started and continues to be an example of the Oedipus Complex. It is totally a fad of those whose fathers became ultra-rich off Capitalism. So Communists are driven by hatred of those fathers, transferred to economics. Either their fathers neglected them, being too busy making money, or their fathers were nasty, like many successful people. Communists are also dictators who demand absolute obedience. This indicates a contrary drive with respect to the fathers of the Communists. Those who are born rich are told that they are born to rule. So, when a young Communist rejects his father's ideology during adolescence, he retains that delusion he learned from his father spoiling him and propping him up. |
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Post by thesageofmainstreet on Nov 22, 2021 21:33:20 GMT
Sorry for not answering at the time. Was quite busy, and couldn't concentrate. B. Russell in "Wise of the West", and mainly in "History of Western Philosophy" had just the same opinion about the romanticism. I do agree that that period proves those ideological thoughts to appear; only I couldn't understand what did you mean by " which emphasizes one's intuitive experience of reality" and " Like how the environmental movement pretends to be all science based, but has its foundation in romanticism's worship of nature".I'd like to add more to the theme, and especially to the idea Psychology/Philosophy, but without using keyboards it's uneasy for me right now.
In romanticism, the conception of anything is indistinguable from the individual's intuitive experience of it. Nature becomes our emotional and intuitive experience of it. God exists, because we intuitively experience that God exists. The nation becomes a metaphysical entity to be worshipped because the masses feels that it is.
All human progress, even the fact that humans didn't go extinct, has been created by those who looked at Nature as merely raw materials that could be transformed, developed or eliminated based on benefits to mankind. |
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