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Post by karl on Jul 23, 2020 3:14:45 GMT
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 23, 2020 3:51:47 GMT
Oh yes, I've seen this video. He's wrong to say that Jamestown and Plymouth were somehow not influential to the wider American culture. He has a sense from living in different parts of the country that different regions of the country are radically different from each other in culture (which anyone who's traveled the country could tell you) but hasn't seemed to have read the literature on those differences.
Plymouth was the genesis of the Greater New England culture that dominates in New England, Upstate New York, and the Upper Midwest and has another similar splinter on the West Coast which during the 1800s was the target of a missionary effort by New England Yankees to create "a New England on the Pacific".
The Jamestown colony matured into the culture of Tidewater Virginia, North Carolina, Maryland, and (perhaps to a lesser extent) Delaware and many of our great presidents such as George Washington, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson arose from that culture.
It is true that these colonies didn't define the entirety of the cultures of the north and the south but they did define important parts of these regions.
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Post by karl on Jul 23, 2020 16:08:16 GMT
Oh yes, I've seen this video. He's wrong to say that Jamestown and Plymouth were somehow not influential to the wider American culture. He has a sense from living in different parts of the country that different regions of the country are radically different from each other in culture (which anyone who's traveled the country could tell you) but hasn't seemed to have read the literature on those differences. Plymouth was the genesis of the Greater New England culture that dominates in New England, Upstate New York, and the Upper Midwest and has another similar splinter on the West Coast which during the 1800s was the target of a missionary effort by New England Yankees to create "a New England on the Pacific". The Jamestown colony matured into the culture of Tidewater Virginia, North Carolina, Maryland, and (perhaps to a lesser extent) Delaware and many of our great presidents such as George Washington, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson arose from that culture. It is true that these colonies didn't define the entirety of the cultures of the north and the south but they did define important parts of these regions.
How is the puritanism of Plymouth linked to the political divide one sees today in the US?
By the way, here is an attempt to describe the contemporary culture of Massachusetts, by some Norwegian comedians.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 24, 2020 1:47:01 GMT
Oh yes, I've seen this video. He's wrong to say that Jamestown and Plymouth were somehow not influential to the wider American culture. He has a sense from living in different parts of the country that different regions of the country are radically different from each other in culture (which anyone who's traveled the country could tell you) but hasn't seemed to have read the literature on those differences. Plymouth was the genesis of the Greater New England culture that dominates in New England, Upstate New York, and the Upper Midwest and has another similar splinter on the West Coast which during the 1800s was the target of a missionary effort by New England Yankees to create "a New England on the Pacific". The Jamestown colony matured into the culture of Tidewater Virginia, North Carolina, Maryland, and (perhaps to a lesser extent) Delaware and many of our great presidents such as George Washington, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson arose from that culture. It is true that these colonies didn't define the entirety of the cultures of the north and the south but they did define important parts of these regions.
How is the puritanism of Plymouth linked to the political divide one sees today in the US?
By the way, here is an attempt to describe the contemporary culture of Massachusetts, by some Norwegian comedians.
The two cultures which are offshoots of Puritanism are described in the book American Nations, a History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures in North America thusly. Yankeedom: Founded on the shores of Massachusetts Bay as a Calvinist New Zion, Yankeedom from the outset placed a great emphasis on education, local political control, and communal utilitarianism even at the price of individual self-denial. Yankees have the greatest faith in the potential of government to improve people's lives, tending to see it as an extension of the citizenry and a bulwark against aristocrats, corporations, or outside powers. Yankee history has been characterized by by a conscious project to build a more perfect society through social engineering, relatively extensive citizen involvement in the political process, and the aggressive assimilation of foreigners. Settled by stable, educated families, Yankeedom has always had a middle-class ethos and considerable respect for intellectual achievement. The religious zeal has waned, but the heritage of "secular Puritanism" lives on. Yankeedom has been locked in nearly perpetual conflict with the Deep South for control of the federal government since the moment such a thing existed. The Left Coast: A Chile-shaped nation pinned between the Pacific and the Cascade and Coast mountain ranges, the Left Coast extends in a strip from Monterey, California, to Juneau, Alaska, including four decidedly progressive metropolises: San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver. A wet region of staggering natural beauty, it was originally colonized by two groups: missionaries, merchants and woodsmen from New England (who arrived by sea and controlled the towns) and farmers, prospectors, and fur traders from Greater Appalachia (who arrived by wagon and dominated the countryside). Originally founded to be a "New England on the Pacific," the Left Coast combines the Yankee faith in good government and social reform to a commitment to individual self-exploration and discovery. The Left Coast has been the birthplace of the modern environmental movement and the global information revolution (home to Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Twitter, and Silicon Valley), and the cofounder (along with New Netherland) of the gay rights movement, the peace movement, and the cultural revolution of the 1960s. The closest ally of Yankeedom, it battles constantly against the libertarian-corporate agenda of its neighbor, the Far West. The Puritan mission to create a utopia, a "shining city upon a hill" secularized in the United States into an aggressive utopian progressivism. The ideal of creating a perfect society on earth through big government reform clashes with the Deep South, Greater Appalachia, and the Tidewater region's (the regions that make up the south) ethos of radical individualism and a definition of freedom which sees freedom as positively correlated with how small the government is. The south is also very socially conservative while the Yankee nations are progressive in social values. The entire history of the United States has really been a regional rivalry which has pitted the Puritan "Yankee" offshoot parts of the United States against the South with these regions trying to win the support of the other regions in the country in order to capture the national government. below is a map so you can clearly see where these places are.
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Post by karl on Jul 24, 2020 3:37:52 GMT
How is the puritanism of Plymouth linked to the political divide one sees today in the US?
By the way, here is an attempt to describe the contemporary culture of Massachusetts, by some Norwegian comedians.
The two cultures which are offshoots of Puritanism are described in the book American Nations, a History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures in North America thusly. Yankeedom: Founded on the shores of Massachusetts Bay as a Calvinist New Zion, Yankeedom from the outset placed a great emphasis on education, local political control, and communal utilitarianism even at the price of individual self-denial. Yankees have the greatest faith in the potential of government to improve people's lives, tending to see it as an extension of the citizenry and a bulwark against aristocrats, corporations, or outside powers. Yankee history has been characterized by by a conscious project to build a more perfect society through social engineering, relatively extensive citizen involvement in the political process, and the aggressive assimilation of foreigners. Settled by stable, educated families, Yankeedom has always had a middle-class ethos and considerable respect for intellectual achievement. The religious zeal has waned, but the heritage of "secular Puritanism" lives on. Yankeedom has been locked in nearly perpetual conflict with the Deep South for control of the federal government since the moment such a thing existed. The Left Coast: A Chile-shaped nation pinned between the Pacific and the Cascade and Coast mountain ranges, the Left Coast extends in a strip from Monterey, California, to Juneau, Alaska, including four decidedly progressive metropolises: San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver. A wet region of staggering natural beauty, it was originally colonized by two groups: missionaries, merchants and woodsmen from New England (who arrived by sea and controlled the towns) and farmers, prospectors, and fur traders from Greater Appalachia (who arrived by wagon and dominated the countryside). Originally founded to be a "New England on the Pacific," the Left Coast combines the Yankee faith in good government and social reform to a commitment to individual self-exploration and discovery. The Left Coast has been the birthplace of the modern environmental movement and the global information revolution (home to Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Twitter, and Silicon Valley), and the cofounder (along with New Netherland) of the gay rights movement, the peace movement, and the cultural revolution of the 1960s. The closest ally of Yankeedom, it battles constantly against the libertarian-corporate agenda of its neighbor, the Far West. The Puritan mission to create a utopia, a "shining city upon a hill" secularized in the United States into an aggressive utopian progressivism. The ideal of creating a perfect society on earth through big government reform clashes with the Deep South, Greater Appalachia, and the Tidewater region's (the regions that make up the south) ethos of radical individualism and a definition of freedom which sees freedom as positively correlated with how small the government is. The south is also very socially conservative while the Yankee nations are progressive in social values. The entire history of the United States has really been a regional rivalry which has pitted the Puritan "Yankee" offshoot parts of the United States against the South with these regions trying to win the support of the other regions in the country in order to capture the national government. below is a map so you can clearly see where these places are.
And by progressivism, I presume you include the progressivism of Theodore Roosevelt, with food safety regulations, labour laws, and national parks?
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
|
Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jul 24, 2020 3:55:33 GMT
The two cultures which are offshoots of Puritanism are described in the book American Nations, a History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures in North America thusly. Yankeedom: Founded on the shores of Massachusetts Bay as a Calvinist New Zion, Yankeedom from the outset placed a great emphasis on education, local political control, and communal utilitarianism even at the price of individual self-denial. Yankees have the greatest faith in the potential of government to improve people's lives, tending to see it as an extension of the citizenry and a bulwark against aristocrats, corporations, or outside powers. Yankee history has been characterized by by a conscious project to build a more perfect society through social engineering, relatively extensive citizen involvement in the political process, and the aggressive assimilation of foreigners. Settled by stable, educated families, Yankeedom has always had a middle-class ethos and considerable respect for intellectual achievement. The religious zeal has waned, but the heritage of "secular Puritanism" lives on. Yankeedom has been locked in nearly perpetual conflict with the Deep South for control of the federal government since the moment such a thing existed. The Left Coast: A Chile-shaped nation pinned between the Pacific and the Cascade and Coast mountain ranges, the Left Coast extends in a strip from Monterey, California, to Juneau, Alaska, including four decidedly progressive metropolises: San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver. A wet region of staggering natural beauty, it was originally colonized by two groups: missionaries, merchants and woodsmen from New England (who arrived by sea and controlled the towns) and farmers, prospectors, and fur traders from Greater Appalachia (who arrived by wagon and dominated the countryside). Originally founded to be a "New England on the Pacific," the Left Coast combines the Yankee faith in good government and social reform to a commitment to individual self-exploration and discovery. The Left Coast has been the birthplace of the modern environmental movement and the global information revolution (home to Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Twitter, and Silicon Valley), and the cofounder (along with New Netherland) of the gay rights movement, the peace movement, and the cultural revolution of the 1960s. The closest ally of Yankeedom, it battles constantly against the libertarian-corporate agenda of its neighbor, the Far West. The Puritan mission to create a utopia, a "shining city upon a hill" secularized in the United States into an aggressive utopian progressivism. The ideal of creating a perfect society on earth through big government reform clashes with the Deep South, Greater Appalachia, and the Tidewater region's (the regions that make up the south) ethos of radical individualism and a definition of freedom which sees freedom as positively correlated with how small the government is. The south is also very socially conservative while the Yankee nations are progressive in social values. The entire history of the United States has really been a regional rivalry which has pitted the Puritan "Yankee" offshoot parts of the United States against the South with these regions trying to win the support of the other regions in the country in order to capture the national government. below is a map so you can clearly see where these places are.
And by progressivism, I presume you include the progressivism of Theodore Roosevelt, with food safety regulations, labour laws, and national parks? Yeah, back then Teddy Roosevelt's supporters were in Yankee settled areas and the Far West. However nowadays the whole SJW type of "progressivism" is sprung from Yankee and Left Coast colleges. I remember seeing on a Joe Rogan Podcast (linked below) this guest who studied the SJW phenomenon noted the geographical nature of it that it is mainly found in places on the Northeast, West Coast, and Chicago. The conversation about the regional aspect of this starts at 4:11. (notice that the top schools in the country are all in these Yankee settled areas. Yankees have a huge cultural focus on education.)
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