Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Random
Oct 26, 2018 12:38:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 12:38:51 GMT
Just imagine I open a thread "A proof there's no God". ME: There's no God. DKTRAV: What's your proof? ME: I try to ignore stupid questions. Victory and glory!
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 31, 2018 13:20:07 GMT
2 Timothy 1:15 [15] This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
Seems the churches of Asia turned away from Paul shrug
|
|
|
Random
Oct 31, 2018 14:25:14 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Oct 31, 2018 14:25:14 GMT
This does not negate Jesus ' words because John's Revelations were first intended for Churches in Asia. 20. The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. (Revelation 1:20)Phygellus and Hermogenes They left Paul . Paul not Jesus! Although the text shows that Paul was arrested and some moved away from him to avoid arrest. Of course this place from the Scripture is not on the topic. 16. The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain… (2 Timothy 1:16)He was Asian too. Even if it doesn't, it doesn't change what I wrote before. Have a nice day to thinked!
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 31, 2018 18:53:47 GMT
The verse quite clearly says “all they which are in Asia be turned away from me”. Paul is the chosen vessel by Christ Himself to spread the gospel; Acts 9:15 [15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: The Bible cannot be inconsistent, so the churches of Asia must have turned away from the gospel that Paul has given then them, which is the gospel of Christ. This could only mean the Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to John before those churches in Asia turned away from the gospel of Christ.
|
|
|
Random
Oct 31, 2018 20:31:58 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Oct 31, 2018 20:31:58 GMT
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth (Revelation 3:10)It's all clearly stated here that the Lord will preserve this Church! John was the last of the apostles when he wrote the Revelations. He lived and wrote even after all the others were executed.! Even if not, it doesn't change what Jesus said about this Church. Or you don't believe God's promises. Obviously! The Apostle Paul in the text does not speak about Churches at all(!) it's your personal invention If you live by the letter of the Scripture where it is written: - the Churches left me ????- obviously in the text that we are talking about people Phygellus and Hermogenes and some other. Then he says about Onesiphorus who is not ashamed of Paul arrest. He was one of the Asian bishops! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnesiphorusP.S If you says some of my statements are not biblical, tell me on the basis of the Bible - did Paul really mean the Church in the text of Scripture?Apparently he was writing about individuals who disobeyed.Maybe even a period of time they did it!
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 1, 2018 0:32:20 GMT
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth (Revelation 3:10)It's all clearly stated here that the Lord will preserve this Church! John was the last of the apostles when he wrote the Revelations. He lived and wrote even after all the others were executed.! Even if not, it doesn't change what Jesus said about this Church. Or you don't believe God's promises. Obviously! The Apostle Paul in the text does not speak about Churches at all(!) it's your personal invention If you live by the letter of the Scripture where it is written: - the Churches left me ????- obviously in the text that we are talking about people Phygellus and Hermogenes and some other. Then he says about Onesiphorus who is not ashamed of Paul arrest. He was one of the Asian bishops! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnesiphorusP.S If you says some of my statements are not biblical, tell me on the basis of the Bible - did Paul really mean the Church in the text of Scripture?Apparently he was writing about individuals who disobeyed.Maybe even a period of time they did it! I never made the claim that God would not preserve His church Shrug You can sit there and continuously accuse me of things as you usually, or we can have a discussion. Which do you want to do? The Bible must be consistent; if all the churches in Asia turned away from Paul who was preaching the gospel of Christ, like 2 Timothy 1:15 says, then it must be so, and it must mean that the Revelation of Jesus Christ which was given to John must have been given to John before those churches turned away from God. That doesn't mean that a gospel believing church doesn't exist anymore, it means those churches in Asia have turned away. If Paul isn't talking about the churches in Asia, the who are the "all they" that he is speaking of? He isn't saying just Phygellus and Hermogenes, because he says "of whom are" meaning those two are just a couple of the many that did turn away. Phygellus and Hermogenes are not the only ones in Asia. Onesiphorus is irrelevant in this discussion. Paul is asking the Lord to bless his house because Onesiphorus is already dead. And Onesiphorus was a bishop in Corinth before he died.. but again, this is completely irrelevant.
|
|
|
Random
Nov 1, 2018 7:52:25 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 1, 2018 7:52:25 GMT
Phygellus and Hermogenes It is not the Church. It's the people! Yeah turned away other. But it's the some people. Not the church For example : George Washington and Andrew Jackson are not States. It's people. www.internationalstandardbible.com/P/phygelus-phygellus.htmlwww.internationalstandardbible.com/H/hermogenes.htmlHere it is very clearly explained about it. We see that Paul in this place in Scripture does not speak about -'the churches that left him '- it is your personal fiction- Some people were just afraid of Paul's arrest! About Onesiphorus - This is a continuation of Paul's quote. According to her, you can't tell if he's dead or not. It is clear that Paul blesses hism house(Church)! Your problem is that you associate the Church with individuality. Again, the text Paul' is not about churches. Only about individuals. Read the links I wrote above!I'm not accusing you. Just my subjective conclusion that you don't believe Jesus ' words because he clearly said the Philadelphia Church would stand in the truth. I already wrote that they never accepted Protestant or Roman Catholic views.Bonus : 4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne…
(Revelation 1:4) God does not blame but blesses the churches of Asia. That is, the community as such. P.SI' ll assume your only argument is to embarrass me that I'm accusing you of something. By doing so, you are very likely to reassure yourself. I'm just going by the Bible. Nothing else. Have a nice day!
|
|
|
Random
Nov 1, 2018 11:38:22 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 1, 2018 11:38:22 GMT
If you is not understend I continue: Even if the whole Churches turned away from Paul, it was definitely a period of time. Although I in detail wrote all about it before. In the history of the Church we know that Asia Minor was the center of early Christianity (7 churches of the Apocalypse for example) and many others. You have no biblical evidence to assert that Revelation was written early then Paul's Letters. In Church (and all world)history, we know that Paul and Peter were killed under Emperor Nero. Apostle John was then exiled to the island of Patmos, where he lived for many years.
Not one Ephesus accepted to the sermon of the Apostle Paul: all Asia Minor, which was headed by Ephesus, was covered with churches. In Colossae, Pergamum, in Iconium, in Philadelphia, Thyatira, Troas, Laodicea, Sardis, Hierapolis and other cities of Asia Minor appeared to be Christians. ""Not only in Ephesus, but almost in all Asia, this Paul with his beliefs seduced a considerable number of people," said, according to Acts (19, 26), the enemies of the Apostle Paul. Even among the" Asian chiefs " in Ephesus we see the friends of the Apostle (acts. 19, 31). But we see beyond that in Asia Minor worked and the Apostle Peter: in his first Message he refers to the Christians of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia and bithinia — areas of Asia Minor, many of whose inhabitants he apparently led to Christ It gave the obvious results. At the beginning of the II century (about 112 years), the ruler of bithinia, one of the regions of Asia Minor, known Pliny the Younger, complains in a letter to the Emperor Trajan that "not only in the city but also in the village and in the village penetrated infection of this superstition" ("delusion" Christian). Pliny writes about "deserted temples", " sacred ceremonies (pagan, of course. ), long discontinued, on the sacrificial animals, which very seldom was the buyer." "People of all ages, of every condition and of both sexes are mistaken and stand on the road to error," the scientific ruler reports (see: 97th or, according to other publications, the 96th letter of Pliny ). Such success by the beginning of the II century did not know Christianity anywhere else. Is one Rome, as the center of the then world life attracted on various occasions a lot of people, including many Christians, somewhat closer in importance and abundance of Christians to the Little Asian Churches.
On this basis, one can see the flowering of Christianity in Asia Minor. Although the Roman authorities tried to destroy the Christians and burn their books. Christians to return to pagan religion. That was law. Therefore, if the people of Asia Minor moved away from the Lord then they returned to paganism according to Roman law. But in practice we do not see it. We see the flowering of early Christianity. The descendants of these people kept the Scriptures and later their Church leaders were in the origins of The biblical Canon!
-what you see, write in the book and go to the churches in Asia: in Ephesus, and in Smyrna, and in Pergam, and in Thyatira, and in Sardis, and in Philadelphia, and in Laodicea. (Rev. 1:11) "
If these Churches, according to your logic, have departed from faith, then according to the Roman Law they were to burn these books and return to paganism. But as Pliny's letter says, everything was not as you think. History has preserved the names of the bishops of Asia Minor, including the disciples of John. For example Polycarp.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 2, 2018 0:56:50 GMT
Phygellus and Hermogenes It is not the Church. It's the people! Yeah turned away other. But it's the some people. Not the church For example : George Washington and Andrew Jackson are not States. It's people. www.internationalstandardbible.com/P/phygelus-phygellus.htmlwww.internationalstandardbible.com/H/hermogenes.htmlHere it is very clearly explained about it. We see that Paul in this place in Scripture does not speak about -'the churches that left him '- it is your personal fiction- Some people were just afraid of Paul's arrest! About Onesiphorus - This is a continuation of Paul's quote. According to her, you can't tell if he's dead or not. It is clear that Paul blesses hism house(Church)! Your problem is that you associate the Church with individuality. Again, the text Paul' is not about churches. Only about individuals. Read the links I wrote above!I'm not accusing you. Just my subjective conclusion that you don't believe Jesus ' words because he clearly said the Philadelphia Church would stand in the truth. I already wrote that they never accepted Protestant or Roman Catholic views.Bonus : 4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne…
(Revelation 1:4) God does not blame but blesses the churches of Asia. That is, the community as such. P.SI' ll assume your only argument is to embarrass me that I'm accusing you of something. By doing so, you are very likely to reassure yourself. I'm just going by the Bible. Nothing else. Have a nice day! I didn't say they were. The verse says "all", not some. Absolutely not, the verse says "all they which are in Asia be turned away from me"... not "some", not "only Phygellus and Hermogenes", it says "all they which are in Asia". That isn't fiction, that's what it says. The context isn't about Paul's arrest. Paul talks about Onesiphorus in the past tense and says "The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day"; "in that day" is the key to assuming Onesiphorus is dead. No, Paul asks the Lord to have mercy on Onesiphorus's house(his family), not his church. If Paul was speaking of his church, he would have said church, as he said church many times in 1 Timothy, and not "house" in its stead. We know this because of this verse 2 Timothy 4:19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus. The church is made up of individuals, but individuals aren't being referred to when Paul says "all". Paul points out two individuals, but those two are not "all" who are in Asia. This should be very easy to understand shrug You did accuse me of something, you accused me of not believing in God's promises when you said, This subjective conclusion about me you've come up with isn't what we are discussing. Stay on topic please. Actually, He does blame them. I can't believe I have to show you this; God has issues with many of the churches: To the church at Ephesus, Revelation 2:4-6 4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. 6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. To the church at Pergamos, Revelation 2:14-16 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. To the church at Sardis, Revelation 3:4 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. To the church at Laodicea, Revelation 3:15-19 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Clearly God had contentions with these churches. It is said plainly in the text. This is going off the topic as well though, it may as well be a red herring(something meant to distract from the topic at hand). You assume incorrectly. You did accuse me of something. My aim isn't to embarrass you, nor is it to 'reassure' myself of my beliefs. I don't need reassurance, my faith is unbreakable. You aren't going by the Bible, if you were, you wouldn't have said the churches of Asia were blameless, when some were quite clearly to be blamed of many things. I will reiterate what I said before to keep the discussion on topic: The Bible must be consistent; if all the churches in Asia turned away from Paul who was preaching the gospel of Christ, like 2 Timothy 1:15 says, then it must be so, and it must mean that the Revelation of Jesus Christ which was given to John must have been given to John before those churches turned away from God. That doesn't mean that a gospel believing church doesn't exist anymore, it means those churches in Asia turned away.
|
|
|
Random
Nov 2, 2018 10:00:17 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 2, 2018 10:00:17 GMT
DKTrav88 arktos.boards.net/thread/3438/protestant-friends If you were interested in studying Church historical views, you would answer these questions and study would study the material. Which is directly related to this topic. arktos.boards.net/thread/2494/evangelicals-come-home-orthodox-churchThe problem Protestants that they refused from Church history (tradition) in a result we have the that you write. The context isn't about Paul's arrest. 16. The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain…(2 Timothy 1:16) Είθε ο Κύριος να δώση έλεος εις τον οίκον του Ονησιφόρου, διότι πολλάκις με παρηγόρησε και δεν επησχύνθη την άλυσίν μου… This word in the value chain(arrest) we see (Revelation 20:1) Here it is told in detail about it situation: www.internationalstandardbible.com/P/phygelus-phygellus.htmlwww.internationalstandardbible.com/H/hermogenes.htmlEven if at some time the Churches left him( by your logic) this not does not matter.Period! In more detail below.God does not blame but blesses the churches of Asia. That is, the community as such. Actually, He does blame them. I can't believe I have to show you this; God has issues with many of the churches:
I do not deny the subject of criticism as such. But the corner Church in this thread now is in Philadelphia if you don't get my point!I can't believe I have to show you this:John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne… (Revelation 1:4) Despite some moments, the Lord blessed this Churches. Why?They had Apostolic succession(the Apostle and created them) and they were under Him control. Of course some people are sinful so the Lord criticized them. But it doesn't affect the policy of the Churches once the Lord has given them his Word. I patiently explain clearly that the Revelations originally belonged to 7 churches in Asia. If they had turned away from the Lord, according to the Roman law of the pagan religion, the books would have been destroyed. Who is familiar with history will not deny it. I understand Protestant logic perfectly. If the Protestant sees problems in the community (the fault of some people), this is the reason for the Protestant to leave this community and create his own which is more pleasing to him. So in this topic you pay attention not to some problems in these Asian Churches. But God's opinions matter. No people opinions. Him gave them His Word! The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. (Revelation 1:20) The Lord compared the Church with the candlesticks! Listen to me American dude..All my arguments are based on the Bible and historical facts. I'm really not interested in the position is not tied to the facts. So was the theme with Islam and Muhammad. As arguments, you cited the faith of many Protestants. Nothing more. From the point of view of me as a historian I am focused on-progressive dialogue. In which the opponent learns the views of the opponent. On the basis of what you write is clear, you scratched the surface on my arguments. I mean about what Pliny Wrote about the rise of Christianity in Asia. In your mind, the Churches in Asia have retreated. The facts tell a different situation . My position is to compare the Word of God with reality. If the Lord said that he would keep this Church, then there must be a confirmation of that. I see that you need to grow in this regard. I sincerely hope it comes sooner. Not later! Have a nice day!
|
|
|
Random
Nov 3, 2018 10:05:19 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 3, 2018 10:05:19 GMT
DKTrav88 Don't worry dude. Based on what you wrote to me earlier, I understood your position. I will not argue that my methods of communicating with people are perfect. Of course, we all create mistakes in the judgments of people's actions. Are you saying that I quote sources outside the Bible ?? But in the topic Questions for Protestants I explain that the essence of my sources (Tradition) have roots in the Bible. You ignore the given fact.(Talking about it is better within this topic) As to what I wrote, about the Protestant belief, I’m just says that if one Catholic monk would not create a Reformation, then there would not be any Protestant in nature. I have material to continue aboth this thread : Did you write that there was nothing about Paul's arrest? But did you probably not know that the Second Epistle to Timothy is written in Rome (1:17), on the eve of the execution of the Apostle, probably about 67 years?? The Apostle foresees his near death (4: 6) and takes the last opportunity to instruct Timothy and the other disciples. After Paul's arrest, many Christians were frightened. Paul does not directly say that they have become heretics or pagans. He only said what he had, but did not reproach them in the least. Made good to him(Onesiphorus who visited him in Rome) he praised and wished countless blessings, and they(Fihel and Hermogenes, and others) did not wish any evil. This is how Paul taught Timothy morality through this story.All this Epistle teaches all Christian morality. Paul mentioned and did not curse those who did not come to him when he was in trouble and gave blessings to those who came to him. He gave blessings -in that day- the Day of Onesiphorus future Martyr's death! More detali this - www.gotquestions.org/Onesiphorus-in-the-Bible.htmlwww.internationalstandardbible.com/P/phygelus-phygellus.htmlwww.internationalstandardbible.com/H/hermogenes.html Are you probably saying the Churches in Asia have become empty??? Question for reflection: who was this message intended for first read?For Timothy and his community! But Timothy was the first Bishop of Ephesus! www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-TimothyThe Apostle John spent many years afterwards in prison on the island of Patmos. He was the last of the apostles. He wrote his message for 7 churches in Asia. among them was the Church in Ephesus 1. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks… 2. I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars… (Revelation 2:1-2)
The Lord praises this Church for its work. He also mentioned unfit apostles from this Church. It is absolutely clear that we are talking about those who left the Church. From this text it is absolutely clear that the bad apostles were in this Church before. Not in future! This absolutely confirms that the incident that Paul wrote for Bishop Timothy of Ephesus occurred before this message was written(Revelation)! Although the Lord criticized them for some things, but he is glad that the Efesa church against the Nicolaitans. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NicolaismUnfortunately I have to admit that you made a logical mistake in understanding my text. Why? I used to speak only about the Philadelphia church. You can look at what I wrote before. Archives here. I did not mention other churches only about Philadelphia. This why I did not mention the subject of criticism of other churches. This is not a topic for conversation. Nevertheless, they were the Churches of God. Have a nice day! P.S If you didn't understand my English when I quoted the essence of the message of Timothy, then I’ll tell you straight: when I quoted Revalation , it was more understandable.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Random
Nov 3, 2018 12:14:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 12:14:37 GMT
Can you answer my question please? Can you show yourself up in the damn thread I called u up..true pervert. We had unfinished business to take care of. Queen's slave always licking her boots. Fake prentitious fluffy ball
|
|
|
Random
Nov 3, 2018 19:56:55 GMT
Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 3, 2018 19:56:55 GMT
DKTrav88 arktos.boards.net/thread/3438/protestant-friends If you were interested in studying Church historical views, you would answer these questions and study would study the material. Which is directly related to this topic. arktos.boards.net/thread/2494/evangelicals-come-home-orthodox-churchThe problem Protestants that they refused from Church history (tradition) in a result we have the that you write. The context isn't about Paul's arrest. 16. The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain…(2 Timothy 1:16) Είθε ο Κύριος να δώση έλεος εις τον οίκον του Ονησιφόρου, διότι πολλάκις με παρηγόρησε και δεν επησχύνθη την άλυσίν μου… This word in the value chain(arrest) we see (Revelation 20:1) Here it is told in detail about it situation: www.internationalstandardbible.com/P/phygelus-phygellus.htmlwww.internationalstandardbible.com/H/hermogenes.htmlEven if at some time the Churches left him( by your logic) this not does not matter.Period! In more detail below.God does not blame but blesses the churches of Asia. That is, the community as such. Actually, He does blame them. I can't believe I have to show you this; God has issues with many of the churches:
I do not deny the subject of criticism as such. But the corner Church in this thread now is in Philadelphia if you don't get my point!I can't believe I have to show you this:John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne… (Revelation 1:4) Despite some moments, the Lord blessed this Churches. Why?They had Apostolic succession(the Apostle and created them) and they were under Him control. Of course some people are sinful so the Lord criticized them. But it doesn't affect the policy of the Churches once the Lord has given them his Word. I patiently explain clearly that the Revelations originally belonged to 7 churches in Asia. If they had turned away from the Lord, according to the Roman law of the pagan religion, the books would have been destroyed. Who is familiar with history will not deny it. I understand Protestant logic perfectly. If the Protestant sees problems in the community (the fault of some people), this is the reason for the Protestant to leave this community and create his own which is more pleasing to him. So in this topic you pay attention not to some problems in these Asian Churches. But God's opinions matter. No people opinions. Him gave them His Word! The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. (Revelation 1:20) The Lord compared the Church with the candlesticks! Listen to me American dude..All my arguments are based on the Bible and historical facts. I'm really not interested in the position is not tied to the facts. So was the theme with Islam and Muhammad. As arguments, you cited the faith of many Protestants. Nothing more. From the point of view of me as a historian I am focused on-progressive dialogue. In which the opponent learns the views of the opponent. On the basis of what you write is clear, you scratched the surface on my arguments. I mean about what Pliny Wrote about the rise of Christianity in Asia. In your mind, the Churches in Asia have retreated. The facts tell a different situation . My position is to compare the Word of God with reality. If the Lord said that he would keep this Church, then there must be a confirmation of that. I see that you need to grow in this regard. I sincerely hope it comes sooner. Not later! Have a nice day! No, I'm not interested in studying a biased institution's version of history. No, I think Protestants just don't accept the Orthodox institution's version of history. We are talking about 2 Timothy 1:15, not Onesiphorus or verse 16; the context changes in verse 16 and forward. I don't know why it is so difficult for you to stay on topic Shrug I already said it does not matter, but you seem to have trouble understanding what I am saying yet again. There are 2 other churches in the beginning of Revelation that Christ did not place blame on, the other 4 are rebuked and reproved. You said, "God does not blame but blesses the churches of Asia.", but He DID blame them, I even showed you the parts where He did. Now you are changing you tone and saying you don't deny it. Why are you carried about with the wind? I never disputed this. What about the church in Sardis? Did you read what God said about them? Let me show you, Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. Do you think God blessed all in Sardis or just those who have not defiled their garments? Do you think the church in Sardis was full of saved Christians? Or, was it only "a few" as it says, "for they are worthy"? Wouldn't that mean the others are not worthy? I believe it does, otherwise God would have said all those in Sardis is worthy. You said, "If the Protestant sees problems in the community (the fault of some people), this is the reason for the Protestant to leave this community and create his own which is more pleasing to him." This is a generalization. There are Protestants that adhere to the Bible as their authority; you don't and won't believe that because you think you "understand Protestant logic perfectly" and because you believe the Orthodox institution is the true church hence you are automatically biased. But, yet again, this is off topic. Please stay on topic. You said, "Him gave them His Word!" Yes He did, but that doesn't mean they are all worthy(see Revelation 3:4). I'm not disputing this. God's words are the facts. 2 Timothy 1:15 is part of the Bible, therefore it is God's word and therefore a fact, and it says "all they which are in Asia be turned away from me" but you're trying to say that Phygelus and Hermogenes are the only ones in Asia, when Revelation 2 and 3 destroy that theory. You said, "As arguments, you cited the faith of many Protestants. Nothing more." That's funny, because all that I have been telling you, I didn't get from any Protestant church. I've just been using the Bible, and you've been citing sources outside the Bible. Interesting, because you aren't learning my views, you assume because I live in a country full of Protestants that I must believe the same things they all believe, and then you throw a label on me. This is a logical fallacy known as a faulty generalization, and you commit this logical fallacy constantly. I haven't addressed your arguments because they are off topic and most of them are misrepresentations of what I believe: example given here, "In your mind, the Churches in Asia have retreated". Last thing I would do, because God's word told me not to, is believe and trust in a man to tell me what God's word says, including myself because the Bible says not to lean on our own understanding. I'm going to believe what God's word says, and that is, "that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me". Much more about this is revealed in Acts 19 and 20. And I am going to stop responding now, because it is pointless for us to go back and forth when neither of us are willing to change our minds. We must agree to disagree.
|
|
|
Random
Nov 3, 2018 21:12:44 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 3, 2018 21:12:44 GMT
DKTrav88 Dude, I'm sorry but you are showing your bias. I understood your position and now I understand that I have always known it. I wonder why you demonstrate it again and again? I did not discuss the Church in Sardis because I was talking specifically only about Philadelphia! Why are you manipulating here? If the authority of the Bible is for you, then you should know: Second Epistle to Timothy is written in Rome (1:17), on the eve of the execution of the Apostle, probably about 67 years?? The Apostle foresees his near death (4: 6) and takes the last opportunity to instruct Timothy and the other disciples. Paul and a group of Christians were in Rome. Paul was arrested and all the Asian people(from this christians) turned away from him.In the 4th chapter of this epistle, Paul mentions that he sent some Christians to preach. Including Ephesus in Asia Minor. If all the churches from this region turned away, then why Paul did it? There is another way of creating the church itself again? You said, "As arguments, you cited the faith of many Protestants. Nothing more." That's funny, because all that I have been telling you, I didn't get from any Protestant church. I've just been using the Bible, and you've been citing sources outside the Bible.I said this in another topic. Do you understand this? In any case, your answer confirmed that you are the same as other Protestants! Now closer to the topic. If we have to agree or disagree I have questions for you:[/i] Do you think that the Revelations were written before the letters of Paul to Timothy were written? Do you think that the Churches in Asia have deleted or become heretical? Do you think that Onesiphorus died in this moment so Paul blessed him? P.S I hope the Truth finds you sooner rather than later!
|
|
|
Random
Nov 4, 2018 9:09:32 GMT
Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 4, 2018 9:09:32 GMT
I was just talking about archeology in another thread and saw questions from DK. I am really very that some people here accept such a serious work as the Bible only on the basis of profitable passages for them and do not want to accept the whole text. Because I'm just implying that if something bad had happened in the future in a negative way to the Philadelphia Church, the prophecy said it.(Revelation 3:8-10) But there was nothing wrong with the prophecy! P.S Just my subjective conclusion of this conversation!
|
|
|
Random
Nov 4, 2018 15:55:03 GMT
Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 4, 2018 15:55:03 GMT
I was just talking about archeology in another thread and saw questions from DK. I am really very that some people here accept such a serious work as the Bible only on the basis of profitable passages for them and do not want to accept the whole text. Because I'm just implying that if something bad had happened in the future in a negative way to the Philadelphia Church, the prophecy said it.(Revelation 3:8-10) But there was nothing wrong with the prophecy! P.S Just my subjective conclusion of this conversation! This comment just further proves you don’t understand my position.
|
|