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Post by fschmidt on Oct 26, 2018 6:50:45 GMT
I have derailed Elizabeth's thread badly enough. arktos.boards.net/thread/3598/greedySo I will make a new thread to add some comments and respond to DKTrav88. First of all, I am not actually greedy. My main motivation for screwing Americans out of money is because I hate them. But I would much rather kill them than rob them. Unfortunately that is not a practical option at the current time. It totally supports it when dealing with evil morons outside of your community. There are so many examples, but I will just use Genesis. Genesis 25:29-34 - Jacob screws his moronic brother out of his birthright. Genesis 27 - Rebekah and Jacob conspire to lie to Isaac to get the blessing. Genesis 34 - Jacob's sons lie to Hamor and then slaughter Hamor's family. Genesis 38 - Tamar fools Judah to get what she wants. Genesis 47:13-26 - Joseph enslaves the population of Egypt (because they were moronic scum). Would you like me to continue to the other books? This is kinda going off topic, but... Where does it say it is okay to lie and cheat in that passage? Where is the support for it? Where is God's condoning of such behavior? I'm seeing Esau give up his birthright because he had no faith in God: he put is temporary physical needs over his God-given birthright. A man of God does not do this. He didn't deserve the birthright to begin with if he was going to so easily give it up for a cup of soup. Same with Rebekah and Jacob.. where does it support lying and cheating? I see a story of a mother trying to protect her son by lying and Jacob lying to Isaac also, which is wrong to do according to the OT in many places(I'm sure you know that), but Rebekah wanted take the curse of telling Jacob to lie from Jacob upon herself, and Jacob was forced to live the life of a fugitive after he did what he did because his brother was going to kill him. You might say something like "well God let it happen so that's what justifies it", but God let's many things happen, good and evil. It doesn't mean He condones of it. That would be silly to think especially if in the next book He is giving the Israelites commandments that say don't lie, not to mention all the other verses in the OT that say God hates liars. I can say the same thing for the next story as well, where is the support for lying and cheating? Jacob even told his sons what they did was wrong and ruined their reputation and that the surrounding countries would try to kill him, which is even a further curse for what he did from the beginning which was lie to his father. Besides that, Hamor raped their sister and he was also holding her hostage. There is no condoning by God for what they did anywhere before or after it happened. And again with the next example, where is the condoning of such behavior? These are stories, not ways God commands you to live your life... ... and I'm how you consider Joseph saving the lives of the Egyptians during a famine the same as enslaving them. Genesis isn't a book of rules, it is a book of examples/archetypes. Jacob is clearly a hero, the founder of the Israelites. So him screwing over his moronic brother is implicitly condoned. Rebekah and Jacob lying to Isaac is not wrong according to the Old Testament. It is wrong to lie to a member of your community, but this family was not yet a community, so no moral rules applied. In fact this is implicityl condoned just like the last example. Jacob's concern about the slaughter of Hamor was just based on fear, not morality. Dinah was not held hostage. God never condemned this slaughter, so it was clearly approved. Joseph did enslave the people of Egypt by acquiring all their land which forced them all to just work for Pharaoh. I can continue in other books if you like, but why don't you provide counter-evidence? Returning to the big picture, modern culture has become purely evil. It is no better than Sodom and Gomorrah or the Midianites that God had Israel slaughter in Numbers 25,31. Members of modern culture have absolutely no positive traits. They are pure evil and deserve extermination. I don't understand how any decent person wouldn't see this.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 26, 2018 14:55:45 GMT
I don’t read the OT the same way you do. For some reason you’re taking the follies of the people of the OT as ways God wants us to live and treat others outside your community, while in Deuteronomy, and I’ve shown you this before, God commands his children to love strangers, people outside their community. The way you view the God of the OT makes Him changing and inconsistent, all while God says He never changes. I don’t see genesis as a book of examples to live by, nor do I see in it the condoning of bad behaviors when the results of those are clearly shown after the bad conduct was performed. Do you think the fact that innocent children get raped and murdered all the time is God condoning of it? Condoning as in approving of such behavior as good and well to do in God’s eyes? Not every American subscribes to modern culture.
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FireFoxAssassin
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Post by FireFoxAssassin on Oct 26, 2018 15:00:52 GMT
My main motivation for screwing Americans out of money is because I hate them. Uh by any chance, are you an indian "tech support" scammer?
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Post by fschmidt on Oct 27, 2018 6:53:28 GMT
I’ve shown you this before, God commands his children to love strangers, people outside their community. Link please. False. God is consistent and consistently wants vile human scum like modern Americans to die. You can't equate Genesis with what happens in reality. Genesis is meant to be a guide and any intelligent person can understand what it is saying. In reality, justice is slow and probabilistic. So a culture where innocent children get raped and murdered is evil and will eventually be destroyed. Yes, by "American" I mean "culturally America" which means that they subscribe to modern culture. I don't mean legally/technically America (which I am, after all).
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 27, 2018 18:20:26 GMT
I’ve shown you this before, God commands his children to love strangers, people outside their community. Link please. False. God is consistent and consistently wants vile human scum like modern Americans to die. You can't equate Genesis with what happens in reality. Genesis is meant to be a guide and any intelligent person can understand what it is saying. In reality, justice is slow and probabilistic. So a culture where innocent children get raped and murdered is evil and will eventually be destroyed. Yes, by "American" I mean "culturally America" which means that they subscribe to modern culture. I don't mean legally/technically America (which I am, after all). I showed you here, arktos.boards.net/thread/3542/ezra-created-judaismI said, And these aren't the only places in the OT where God says not to treat strangers with an ill will. Hmm, well, considering the latter, I don't think that is correct. I think God wants all to come to faith in Him; this is of course easily supported by NT scripture, but we also have examples of people coming into the faith that were not born of Israel or born into Israel, Amos 9:7 Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the Lord. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir? Abraham was born in and came out of Ur, which is in present day Iraq, he wasn't Jewish, Jews didn't even exist at his time. I mean it even happens over and over again throughout the OT; God's people turn away from God and they get taken captive into other nations and becomes strangers in that land and then eventually they go back by the will of God to their homeland. It is almost as if God is trying to teach them something (wink wink) perhaps it is God saying, "Hey, I'm gonna make you strangers in other people's lands and you're gonna get treated like crap so you know how it feels. So then you'll know that when you have strangers in your land, you show them love and treat them right because you know how it feels." Again though, not all modern Americans are vile human scum, and even the ones that are, God wants them to repent and come to faith in Him. God doesn't want anyone to die, death is the result of sin according the beginning of Genesis. God gave man a command and they disobeyed, they sinned, and sin brought in death. You're using Genesis as a guide of how God wants you to treat others in reality. You're using the stories in Genesis as a justification to lie and cheat in reality. You're using it to be your guide to make decisions in reality. So how can you then say one cannot equate what happens in Genesis with what happens in reality when you're putting into action the actions of those in Genesis in reality? Regardless, you already said Genesis isn't a book of rules, but a book of examples, and according to you, examples of how to live in reality. So you're trying to make the actions of those in Genesis, as wrong as they are according to the rest of the OT, a reality. But what I was asking, and it seemed to have escaped you, was if God condones of evil behavior and I used an example that happens today... because God exists today, does He not? And is He not the same yesterday as He is today? If He is, then He is good and doesn't condone of evil... that should be evident from the very beginning of Genesis when God created everything and said it was all good. I mean, if God wanted us to use the Genesis as an example of how to live and treat others, then why aren't you disobeying God like Adam and Eve did? They're an example of how to live, right?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 27, 2018 23:38:20 GMT
From what I gathered, I heard you're good with programming, software, and just technology in general. Does that help you threaten such people with such knowledge of computers?
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Post by fschmidt on Oct 28, 2018 4:49:40 GMT
From what I gathered, I heard you're good with programming, software, and just technology in general. Does that help you threaten such people with such knowledge of computers? Such people? Which people?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 28, 2018 4:52:15 GMT
From what I gathered, I heard you're good with programming, software, and just technology in general. Does that help you threaten such people with such knowledge of computers? Such people? Which people? Ones you really dislike basically Shrug
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Post by fschmidt on Oct 28, 2018 5:05:49 GMT
And these aren't the only places in the OT where God says not to treat strangers with an ill will. All these quotes refer to strangers living in Israel. These people have chosen to live in a decent nation and are subject to its laws. This has nothing to do with an evil external culture. Birth is irrelevant. God wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah and He had Israel exterminate the Midianites and other irredeemable groups. Americans certainly belong in this category. This is because these people never became completely hopeless. I don't like Orthodox Judaism but I would be against exterminating them because they are not completely evil. Only members of modern culture are completely evil and therefore hopeless. We simply disagree on this. Then why did God command Israel to exterminate all those evil Canaanite cultures? Not just Genesis but all of the Old Testament. And actually not just the Old Testament, but also history and evolution and everything that I know and feel. Slaughtering scum is not evil. It is good, purifying this world. When humans were first created (evolved) they were tolerably good. True evil can only be produced within a civilization that has gone bad. God made clear what was right, and Adam is no prophet or even good guy. Adam is an average moron, a warning of what to avoid.
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Post by fschmidt on Oct 28, 2018 5:07:37 GMT
From what I gathered, I heard you're good with programming, software, and just technology in general. Does that help you threaten such people with such knowledge of computers? I don't threaten people, I only use technology to (legally) rob them.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 31, 2018 3:02:43 GMT
fschmidtYou're American, so you fall into that category God killed many of the Israelites He brought out of Egypt into the wilderness. The same reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah; all who dwelled in them would not repent and turn to Him. God can see the hearts of men and He knows who will and will not repent. Lying and cheating is what brought up this discussion. So, if you are lying to people to cheat them out of their money, then you had better get right with God, Proverbs 6:16-19 16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. If God is doing the the killing then it is just. Evolved from what? Yes He did, and yet you think it's okay to follow the example of Jacob lying when God says He hates lying? Also, in the order of the creation account, God made man, Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. ...and then He said everything was very good, Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. So, are you saying God was wrong when He said everything He created was very good?
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Post by fschmidt on Oct 31, 2018 7:50:20 GMT
fschmidt You're American, so you fall into that category No. Can you read (and understand)? Also see the bottom of: arktos.boards.net/post/45334/threadSo? I have enough experience with Americans to judge them. All this applies to brethren, meaning members of one's community, not Americans. Yes, I am counting on God to slaughter the Americans somehow. I will just settle for robbing them since that is all I can do. It was good initially, but then along came that nasty serpent and messed things up. Basically the serpent and the tree represent civilization and knowledge which have great potential for corrupting people and making them evil.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 31, 2018 13:11:33 GMT
fschmidt You're American, so you fall into that category No. Can you read (and understand)? Also see the bottom of: arktos.boards.net/post/45334/threadSo? I have enough experience with Americans to judge them. All this applies to brethren, meaning members of one's community, not Americans. Yes, I am counting on God to slaughter the Americans somehow. I will just settle for robbing them since that is all I can do. It was good initially, but then along came that nasty serpent and messed things up. Basically the serpent and the tree represent civilization and knowledge which have great potential for corrupting people and making them evil. I can read just fine. The issue is that you’re generalizing Americans with the way you type. You should say what you mean(say people who are evil or something) otherwise you’re going to look like some crazy extremist who just wants to kill people because they’re legally American. Choose your words wisely so people don’t misunderstand you. Point is they were His people but He still killed them. Proverbs applies in general. Why would God make a double standard? That seems more like a devilish thing to do. What did man evolve from?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 31, 2018 22:09:20 GMT
No. Can you read (and understand)? Also see the bottom of: arktos.boards.net/post/45334/threadSo? I have enough experience with Americans to judge them. All this applies to brethren, meaning members of one's community, not Americans. Yes, I am counting on God to slaughter the Americans somehow. I will just settle for robbing them since that is all I can do. It was good initially, but then along came that nasty serpent and messed things up. Basically the serpent and the tree represent civilization and knowledge which have great potential for corrupting people and making them evil. I can read just fine. The issue is that you’re generalizing Americans with the way you type. You should say what you mean(say people who are evil or something) otherwise you’re going to look like some crazy extremist who just wants to kill people because they’re legally American. Choose your words wisely so people don’t misunderstand you. Point is they were His people but He still killed them. Proverbs applies in general. Why would God make a double standard? That seems more like a devilish thing to do. What did man evolve from? They were no longer His people when they stopped obeying Him. That's why God killed them. Shrug
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Post by Διαμονδ on Oct 31, 2018 22:23:29 GMT
At the time of the old Testament there was no atoning sacrifice of Jesus and therefore people did not have an intercessor before Heavenly Father and people in consequence of sin fell only in hell after death. God is love. He did not want people to suffer in hell for their sins and so God often punished people to shorten days of life people .Reduce their sinfulness. Explanations of God's 'Cruelty' in the OT!
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