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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 12, 2018 1:39:54 GMT
Got a question for the members of arktos that has been on my mind lately after talking with others on the interwebs briefly about it:
Would you consider killing other people in war and capital punishment premeditated and therefore murder?
The killing that happens in war isn't something that happens by accident, it is intentionally done. It is calculated and deliberate, not spontaneous and not unplanned. Soldiers in war are expecting to kill people. Therefore, if the killing that happens in war is done purposely and with all intention, it therefore becomes murder.
Capital punishment is about the same; it is planned, calculated, deliberate, and intentional. It is not spontaneous, not accidental, and not done in ignorance(without knowing).
The basic definitions of murder are: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another, and, the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse.
Of course, one could raise the question "What is lawful and/or excusable?". Some might argue that killing in war and capital punishment is justified, but justification is purely subjective in the broader sense, as in people have different opinions, ideologies, reasons, codes of ethics, moral standards, etc. of what is reasonable and what isn't.
I personally consider both premeditated and inexcusable, and therefore murder(if you couldn't tell).
What does the arktos community think?
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PISTON1246
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Post by PISTON1246 on Oct 17, 2018 19:07:56 GMT
Murder is "unlawful" killing.
If the killing is justified, like in some cases of self-defense, then that would not be murder.
I support killing in war and capital punishment.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 17, 2018 19:21:38 GMT
Yes. It is premeditated murder. You thought about killing someone and then you did it. Sad
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PISTON1246
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Post by PISTON1246 on Oct 17, 2018 19:22:55 GMT
Yes. It is premeditated murder. You thought about killing someone and then you did it.  Do you think that kid who thought about killing his dad before he did it was a murderer? |
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 17, 2018 19:27:15 GMT
Yes. It is premeditated murder. You thought about killing someone and then you did it. Do you think that kid who thought about killing his dad before he did it was a murderer? Did he or did he not murder someone? He did. So that makes him a murderer. However, there can be accidental murder or nonaccidental. Accidental is someone dying but you didn't plan on it like during a surgery or car accident. Maybe the kid only planned to hurt the dad to stop him from hurting his mom but accidently killed him. But if he's been wanting to kill his dad forever simply because of hate and was waiting for a time then this situation worked perfectly for him where he can kill his dad and make it lawful to get away with it by the law of the land. |
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PISTON1246
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Post by PISTON1246 on Oct 17, 2018 20:22:49 GMT
So all forms of killing is murder to you?
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Post by fschmidt on Oct 17, 2018 21:45:41 GMT
The definition of "unlawful killing" is an absurd definition because any type of killing can be made lawful or unlawful by changing the law. What murder really means is unacceptable killing. Of course what is acceptable is subjective. My view is that killing is only acceptable in self-defense. Regarding capital punishment, this is self-defense in the case where there is no other practical means to remove dangerous people from society. This is why capital punishment was okay in Old Testament times but not today.
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PISTON1246
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Post by PISTON1246 on Oct 17, 2018 21:54:46 GMT
Wouldn't want the laws of the Old Testament brought back?
If the nation doesn't obey those laws, it is only to their own inevitable fall.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 17, 2018 22:15:42 GMT
So all forms of killing is murder to you? If you're responsible for taking the life of another human then yes. |
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PISTON1246
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Post by PISTON1246 on Oct 17, 2018 23:27:25 GMT
So all forms of killing is murder to you? If you're responsible for taking the life of another human then yes. Well that is where we disagree. I am for a killing when God commands it in the lawbook. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 18, 2018 0:12:02 GMT
If you're responsible for taking the life of another human then yes. Well that is where we disagree. I am for a killing when God commands it in the lawbook. Thou shall not kill. Is a command from God though. |
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Post by Polaris on Oct 18, 2018 15:18:03 GMT
Killing in war comes under the umbrella of war, and it is justified with what justifies war.
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PISTON1246
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Post by PISTON1246 on Oct 18, 2018 20:41:12 GMT
Well that is where we disagree. I am for a killing when God commands it in the lawbook. Thou shall not kill. Is a command from God though. Thou shall not "murder" in some translations. In chapter 20 of Leviticus, God told Moses to tell the Israelites that anyone residing in Israel that gives any of their offspring to Molech is to be put to death. 2. If anyone curses their father or their mother, they are to be put to death. 3. A man who commits adultery with another man's wife or his friend's wife shall be put to death. Both the adulterer and the adulteress. 4.If a man who lies with his daughter in law, both of them shall be put to death. 5.If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them are to be put to death. In chapter 18 of the same book, God calls a man who sleeps with another man an abomination. 6.If a man marries both a woman and her mother, they are to be burned with fire. It is immorality. 7. If a man lies with an animal, both the man and the animal are to be put to death. If a woman lies with an animal, both the woman and the animal are to be put to death. Those are not the only cases calling for capital punishment in the 5 first books of the Bible. I would not call anyone a murderer for legitimately killing in the name of God. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 18, 2018 22:18:21 GMT
Thou shall not kill. Is a command from God though. Thou shall not "murder" in some translations. In chapter 20 of Leviticus, God told Moses to tell the Israelites that anyone residing in Israel that gives any of their offspring to Molech is to be put to death. 2. If anyone curses their father or their mother, they are to be put to death. 3. A man who commits adultery with another man's wife or his friend's wife shall be put to death. Both the adulterer and the adulteress. 4.If a man who lies with his daughter in law, both of them shall be put to death. 5.If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them are to be put to death. In chapter 18 of the same book, God calls a man who sleeps with another man an abomination. 6.If a man marries both a woman and her mother, they are to be burned with fire. It is immorality. 7. If a man lies with an animal, both the man and the animal are to be put to death. If a woman lies with an animal, both the woman and the animal are to be put to death. Those are not the only cases calling for capital punishment in the 5 first books of the Bible. I would not call anyone a murderer for legitimately killing in the name of God. Murder is killing and killing is killing. But the examples you provided are when God demanded death. God demanding death isn't killing since He is the creator. It's when humans who kill humans then it's killing/murder. So in the verses you provided it is God killing them otherwise people wouldn't have dared to. But when God says I need them dead it's a whole different story. People are commanded not to kill but to love their neighbor. Loving a neighbor is a command. Taking their life just because you want to is not loving them. |
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