Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 16, 2023 7:29:45 GMT
America's Ethnocultural Mosaic Explained
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Post by jonbain on Mar 16, 2023 7:55:37 GMT
Missing the vital pieces of the puzzle.
Its history was based on the pillage of Native land. That karma will divide america until it destroys itself.
The alternative would be to embrace that ancient spirit. The length of the video I skipped thru does not even mention them.
And thats the problem.
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lamburk
Full Member
Posts: 227
Likes: 80
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Post by lamburk on Mar 16, 2023 9:30:05 GMT
Missing the vital pieces of the puzzle. Its history was based on the pillage of Native land. That karma will divide america until it destroys itself. The alternative would be to embrace that ancient spirit. The length of the video I skipped thru does not even mention them. And thats the problem. People get America wrong. It's a continent. The grand daddy in american continent, or rather, which it portrays to, is USA, is nothing more than a corporation, which bankers have created. Anyways, that country was destroyed after kennedy's assasination, as capitalists took over USA long long time back. Yes, USA was established on the pillage of the indian or paleo indian people of american continent, but, who did this? Well, the start was done by spanish explorers (not columbus though, who was anti slavery), and then, british. In anyways, people USA were trapped in huge debts of federal reserves, which was their undoing. Besides, after 1945, USA has hardly won any war. Even the 2nd world war's victory was largely due to the co-ordination of allied powers, and that was achieved by and large, due the to bombings at hiroshima and nagasaki. So yeah,THE USA is nothing more than a ghost nation, in today's time.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 16, 2023 11:25:56 GMT
Missing the vital pieces of the puzzle. Its history was based on the pillage of Native land. That karma will divide america until it destroys itself. The alternative would be to embrace that ancient spirit. The length of the video I skipped thru does not even mention them. And thats the problem. Embrace that ancient spirit? So, to avoid destruction we should adopt the culture of the Natives of our land? Well, for me that would mean building great cities with giant earthen pyramids in the in the center, ruled autocratically by preist-god-kings that claim descent from the sun, which is worshipped as the chief god of our polytheistic pantheon, that is appeased by mass human sacrifices. I'm down for it but its going to be very hard to convince the people around me that I am am a living god that is descended from the sun.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 16, 2023 12:02:24 GMT
Missing the vital pieces of the puzzle. Its history was based on the pillage of Native land. That karma will divide america until it destroys itself. The alternative would be to embrace that ancient spirit. The length of the video I skipped thru does not even mention them. And thats the problem. People get America wrong. It's a continent. The grand daddy in american continent, or rather, which it portrays to, is USA, is nothing more than a corporation, which bankers have created. Anyways, that country was destroyed after kennedy's assasination, as capitalists took over USA long long time back. Yes, USA was established on the pillage of the indian or paleo indian people of american continent, but, who did this? Well, the start was done by spanish explorers (not columbus though, who was anti slavery), and then, british. In anyways, people USA were trapped in huge debts of federal reserves, which was their undoing. Besides, after 1945, USA has hardly won any war. Even the 2nd world war's victory was largely due to the co-ordination of allied powers, and that was achieved by and large, due the to bombings at hiroshima and nagasaki. So yeah,THE USA is nothing more than a ghost nation, in today's time. I don't see any reasons to think that you've said at the last phrase. Today US is the most powerful country in the world. China - is a dead horse. I guess there is one of the biggest differences between US (and maybe some others, I'm not so sure) that while the other countries are collapsing (as China) US exists. The juice is in the veins, not in the look.
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lamburk
Full Member
Posts: 227
Likes: 80
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Post by lamburk on Mar 16, 2023 12:24:10 GMT
People get America wrong. It's a continent. The grand daddy in american continent, or rather, which it portrays to, is USA, is nothing more than a corporation, which bankers have created. Anyways, that country was destroyed after kennedy's assasination, as capitalists took over USA long long time back. Yes, USA was established on the pillage of the indian or paleo indian people of american continent, but, who did this? Well, the start was done by spanish explorers (not columbus though, who was anti slavery), and then, british. In anyways, people USA were trapped in huge debts of federal reserves, which was their undoing. Besides, after 1945, USA has hardly won any war. Even the 2nd world war's victory was largely due to the co-ordination of allied powers, and that was achieved by and large, due the to bombings at hiroshima and nagasaki. So yeah,THE USA is nothing more than a ghost nation, in today's time. I don't see any reasons to think that you've said at the last phrase. Today US is the most powerful country in the world. China - is a dead horse. I guess there is one of the biggest differences between US (and maybe some others, I'm not so sure) that while the other countries are collapsing (as China) US exists. The juice is in the veins, not in the look. It's not a nation, it's a corporation, which poses as a nation. Powerful in what terms? Even UK was the powerful nation, in 1700's,but what has happened to it now? US is developed because of army, but, still, it does not mean that they have got everything right. There are lot of issues, within US itself, and that power is only yielded by some , not by everyone. In today's time, USA is well beyond past of it's yester years, and has already collapsed. I don't know, what power does it hold anyways? They have hardly won any war after 1945. Their only exports were software and hollywood, apart from that, what have they been manufacturing? China itself is a nation which is built on pillaging it's own people, then, what else to expect?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 16, 2023 14:10:12 GMT
I don't see any reasons to think that you've said at the last phrase. Today US is the most powerful country in the world. China - is a dead horse. I guess there is one of the biggest differences between US (and maybe some others, I'm not so sure) that while the other countries are collapsing (as China) US exists. The juice is in the veins, not in the look. It's not a nation, it's a corporation, which poses as a nation. Powerful in what terms? Even UK was the powerful nation, in 1700's,but what has happened to it now? US is developed because of army, but, still, it does not mean that they have got everything right. There are lot of issues, within US itself, and that power is only yielded by some , not by everyone. In today's time, USA is well beyond past of it's yester years, and has already collapsed. I don't know, what power does it hold anyways? They have hardly won any war after 1945. Their only exports were software and hollywood, apart from that, what have they been manufacturing? China itself is a nation which is built on pillaging it's own people, then, what else to expect? First of all, I think that there's a such thing as development and evolution. Of course things are changing, and maybe they have different looks on history. Even UK or France, Germany, and many others not excluded India are not the same they were in past. The genes, the will, courage, and many other things haven't vanished away from Americans if they are at the top of the world. I guess they are still alike they were at the end of the WWII. Let's imagine Peking decided to war, no doubt US would defeat it. Today China is the most terrible enemy, so if it falls, then why US isn't the most powerful? But okay each country is unique in its way. And people elsewhere are different, especially today. However, in past people could unite, why to think people can't repeat it? We progress in politics, and technology, but as spiritual beings or moral ones we are who we are. Besides, US is Christian, and perhaps the most Christian among the others, and it seems it also a great resource. Lovecraft had doubts about US in 20's–30's about the future of US exactly because he wrote about the proliferation, diversity, and so on in US (100 years ago!), but didn't it stop American against the Third Reich, Hungary, Mussolini's Italy, and USSR then in 45? No. It's not unusual to diminish the role of a certain country when it's actions are not so clear, in return such analysis look like a part of propaganda, and that's about it. Today the propaganda plays the greater role as it goes via Internet.
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Post by jonbain on Mar 16, 2023 14:13:12 GMT
Missing the vital pieces of the puzzle. Its history was based on the pillage of Native land. That karma will divide america until it destroys itself. The alternative would be to embrace that ancient spirit. The length of the video I skipped thru does not even mention them. And thats the problem. Embrace that ancient spirit? So, to avoid destruction we should adopt the culture of the Natives of our land? Well, for me that would mean building great cities with giant earthen pyramids in the in the center, ruled autocratically by preist-god-kings that claim descent from the sun, which is worshipped as the chief god of our polytheistic pantheon, that is appeased by mass human sacrifices. I'm down for it but its going to be very hard to convince the people around me that I am am a living god that is descended from the sun. I never said you are required to emulate their every stereotype, in order to be absolved of the sin of their destruction.
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Post by jonbain on Mar 16, 2023 14:18:18 GMT
Missing the vital pieces of the puzzle. Its history was based on the pillage of Native land. That karma will divide america until it destroys itself. The alternative would be to embrace that ancient spirit. The length of the video I skipped thru does not even mention them. And thats the problem. People get America wrong. It's a continent. The grand daddy in american continent, or rather, which it portrays to, is USA, is nothing more than a corporation, which bankers have created. Anyways, that country was destroyed after kennedy's assasination, as capitalists took over USA long long time back. Yes, USA was established on the pillage of the indian or paleo indian people of american continent, but, who did this? Well, the start was done by spanish explorers (not columbus though, who was anti slavery), and then, british. In anyways, people USA were trapped in huge debts of federal reserves, which was their undoing. Besides, after 1945, USA has hardly won any war. Even the 2nd world war's victory was largely due to the co-ordination of allied powers, and that was achieved by and large, due the to bombings at hiroshima and nagasaki. So yeah,THE USA is nothing more than a ghost nation, in today's time.
Its not really about knowing precisely who was right and wrong. Its not about looking for some ghost to blame.
Its just about the narrative of destruction, being the path to a greater future.
Did the missionaries fail, or were the heathen stubborn? Thats not the issue.
The issue is what it will look like in 100 years time.
Let it rather be said that the europeans borrowed the continent to establish the resources to colonise the stars, then gave the little continent back to the natives in a better shape than they found it.
And as a consequence the Apache alone will own a dozen planets. In the millenia to come.
And those little buffalo fields on earth, is where it all began.
So says the spirit of the west wind.
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lamburk
Full Member
Posts: 227
Likes: 80
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Post by lamburk on Mar 17, 2023 2:04:11 GMT
People get America wrong. It's a continent. The grand daddy in american continent, or rather, which it portrays to, is USA, is nothing more than a corporation, which bankers have created. Anyways, that country was destroyed after kennedy's assasination, as capitalists took over USA long long time back. Yes, USA was established on the pillage of the indian or paleo indian people of american continent, but, who did this? Well, the start was done by spanish explorers (not columbus though, who was anti slavery), and then, british. In anyways, people USA were trapped in huge debts of federal reserves, which was their undoing. Besides, after 1945, USA has hardly won any war. Even the 2nd world war's victory was largely due to the co-ordination of allied powers, and that was achieved by and large, due the to bombings at hiroshima and nagasaki. So yeah,THE USA is nothing more than a ghost nation, in today's time.
Its not really about knowing precisely who was right and wrong. Its not about looking for some ghost to blame.
Its just about the narrative of destruction, being the path to a greater future.
Did the missionaries fail, or were the heathen stubborn? Thats not the issue.
The issue is what it will look like in 100 years time.
Let it rather be said that the europeans borrowed the continent to establish the resources to colonise the stars, then gave the little continent back to the natives in a better shape than they found it.
And as a consequence the Apache alone will own a dozen planets. In the millenia to come.
And those little buffalo fields on earth, is where it all began.
So says the spirit of the west wind.
Yes, you are right. It were European settlers, who borrowed the continent, by creating laws, and they gave useless lands of American continent to natives, where, no one can even yield anything. You are right, the time is coming that natives will claim their own continent back, because, America belongs to the native indians. It's coming anyways.
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lamburk
Full Member
Posts: 227
Likes: 80
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Post by lamburk on Mar 17, 2023 2:15:52 GMT
It's not a nation, it's a corporation, which poses as a nation. Powerful in what terms? Even UK was the powerful nation, in 1700's,but what has happened to it now? US is developed because of army, but, still, it does not mean that they have got everything right. There are lot of issues, within US itself, and that power is only yielded by some , not by everyone. In today's time, USA is well beyond past of it's yester years, and has already collapsed. I don't know, what power does it hold anyways? They have hardly won any war after 1945. Their only exports were software and hollywood, apart from that, what have they been manufacturing? China itself is a nation which is built on pillaging it's own people, then, what else to expect? First of all, I think that there's a such thing as development and evolution. Of course things are changing, and maybe they have different looks on history. Even UK or France, Germany, and many others not excluded India are not the same they were in past. The genes, the will, courage, and many other things haven't vanished away from Americans if they are at the top of the world. I guess they are still alike they were at the end of the WWII. Let's imagine Peking decided to war, no doubt US would defeat it. Today China is the most terrible enemy, so if it falls, then why US isn't the most powerful? But okay each country is unique in its way. And people elsewhere are different, especially today. However, in past people could unite, why to think people can't repeat it? We progress in politics, and technology, but as spiritual beings or moral ones we are who we are. Besides, US is Christian, and perhaps the most Christian among the others, and it seems it also a great resource. Lovecraft had doubts about US in 20's–30's about the future of US exactly because he wrote about the proliferation, diversity, and so on in US (100 years ago!), but didn't it stop American against the Third Reich, Hungary, Mussolini's Italy, and USSR then in 45? No. It's not unusual to diminish the role of a certain country when it's actions are not so clear, in return such analysis look like a part of propaganda, and that's about it. Today the propaganda plays the greater role as it goes via Internet. I only saw devolution and downfall of the USA, ever since, I opened my eyes. In media, they only showed the culture of sex, girls and boy dating, live in relationships, mcdonalds, microsoft. If you call this as culture of the USA, then it's better to remain an illiterate villager. USA's power was all because of the CIA, jesuits, and their military dominance on the planet. USA's troops are also present in the Indian Ocean territory, but what it has to do with India? They do it so that China don't destroy the resources, which USA has purchased from the andmanese native people. It's a known fact that the government of the USA purchases lands from other nations, infact, they create nations, after purchasing lands. This is the power, which USA has, only capitalism.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 17, 2023 4:06:45 GMT
Embrace that ancient spirit? So, to avoid destruction we should adopt the culture of the Natives of our land? Well, for me that would mean building great cities with giant earthen pyramids in the in the center, ruled autocratically by preist-god-kings that claim descent from the sun, which is worshipped as the chief god of our polytheistic pantheon, that is appeased by mass human sacrifices. I'm down for it but its going to be very hard to convince the people around me that I am am a living god that is descended from the sun. I never said you are required to emulate their every stereotype, in order to be absolved of the sin of their destruction.
Well, I was simply making a joke, but it is a joke that contains an important truth. The jokes' premise is that it actually DOESN'T conform to the stereotypes any white person fetishizing Native Americans will have. When white people, whether American or foreign, fetishize the Natives of this continent (not mentioning you specifically or implying that you are, just a lot of white people in general), they always choose as the object of their obsession the Natives of the United States and Canada specifically, and not say... the Aztecs or the Mayans, because the Aztecs and Mayans were brutal, imperialistic, human sacrificing civilizations that can't be romanticized as noble savages. The white man fetishizing Native North Americans have this idea of this pure, peaceful, egalitarian, hunter gatherer culture on horseback that lives in harmony with nature and thanks the spirit of the deer when he kills the deer, and is so much more moral than the white man lecturing him about environmentalism like Captain Planet, constantly crying about the buffalo, and whose hands are completely clean of any historical crimes against each other or the white man whatsoever. This noble savage stereotype of Natives is a very simplified picture of a very diverse and very complex multitude of peoples (there is no homogeneous Native American culture) invented by the Hippies and the counter culture movement in the 1960's that reflects more the values of white West Coast hippies in opposition to their WW2 veteran 1950s era traditional American parents rather than any actual Native culture that ever existed in pre-Columbian America. This kind of fetishization of so called, 'less civilized peoples' has a long precedent in the history of Western Civilization going back to the Roman Empire and Tacitus's Germania where he gave the same, 'noble savage' treatment to my ancestors. The point of the joke that I told is that the Native Americans that lived in my area and over almost the entirety of the Southern and Midwestern United States were far more similar to the Aztecs and the Mayans then they were to any notion of the hunter gatherer noble savage. The land where I am sitting right now was in pre-Columbian times part of a Native American kingdom called Cofitachequi, which itself was the Easternmost extent of the vast Mississippian civilization that covered a truly enormous part of the United states. This civilization was an urban one with great cities on the Aztec or Mayan model centered around great earthen pyramids, that possessed plazas for ball games, temples, market places, and residential areas, with one of these cities being larger and more populous than London was at the same time. If you go to Illinois you can visit this city, called Cahokia, which has a great pyramid in the center that has a base the size of the Great Pyramid of Giza. The Mississippian culture was hierarchical being run by preist-god-kings that were thought to be descended from the sun. This was important because like the Aztecs they were polytheistic and, like the Japanese, their chief deity was the sun god. In the name of these gods they committed mass human sacrifices like the Aztecs or Mayans. They had a kind of feudalism in which lesser cities in the region were vassals and had to pay tribute to the most important settlement in the kingdom. Their society fed itself by farming vast quantities Maize farmed by peasants, they had art, sculptures, rudimentary metal working, and when our 'Hernando Cortez' the conquistador Hernando De Soto came to conquer their land they were formidable enough to defeat him outright and repel the Spanish from their territory. It was like an outpost of Central America in the mainland United States, indeed, their civilization almost certainly began in Central America. My point behind all of this is that the noble savage characterization of Native North Americans is largely a myth and a revolting and offensive one that actual Natives tend to cringe at when they see white people perpetuating it. They are in fact far more interesting and varied than this. Some Indians were agriculturalists, some were hunter gatherers, some were very primitive tribes, others carved whole cities into stone, some were akin to Mongol horse tribes, some were nomadic desert wanders, some were very peaceful, others, like the Comanche were the Native American version of ISIS in their brutality, some were monotheistic, some were polytheistic, most were animistic in some manner, some fought viciously against the encroaching Europeans, others sided with the Europeans against other Native tribes that were their ancestral enemies who they indeed saw just as foreign as the Europeans and hated much more. They also took land from one another, genocided other tribes, and enslaved them as well, the five civilized tribes in the American South that were famously put on the trail of tears owned plantations with black slaves, and were the last peoples to free their slaves fighting to the end to keep them. In many native societies how much honor you could gain from a defeated foe came from how brutally you tortured them. They have fascinating folkloric creatures in their mythologies like Wendigos, raven mockers, dragons, fairies, cannibalistic flying heads, skin walkers, owl witches, deer women, and a vigorous spiritual world, and interesting religious traditions with fanciful cosmologies, gods, and myths. In my state there were two tribes that lived here near one another whose languages were as distinct from each other as English is from Mandarin Chinese, so when you say we need to embrace that, "ancient spirit". Which ancient spirit are you talking about?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 17, 2023 9:35:49 GMT
First of all, I think that there's a such thing as development and evolution. Of course things are changing, and maybe they have different looks on history. Even UK or France, Germany, and many others not excluded India are not the same they were in past. The genes, the will, courage, and many other things haven't vanished away from Americans if they are at the top of the world. I guess they are still alike they were at the end of the WWII. Let's imagine Peking decided to war, no doubt US would defeat it. Today China is the most terrible enemy, so if it falls, then why US isn't the most powerful? But okay each country is unique in its way. And people elsewhere are different, especially today. However, in past people could unite, why to think people can't repeat it? We progress in politics, and technology, but as spiritual beings or moral ones we are who we are. Besides, US is Christian, and perhaps the most Christian among the others, and it seems it also a great resource. Lovecraft had doubts about US in 20's–30's about the future of US exactly because he wrote about the proliferation, diversity, and so on in US (100 years ago!), but didn't it stop American against the Third Reich, Hungary, Mussolini's Italy, and USSR then in 45? No. It's not unusual to diminish the role of a certain country when it's actions are not so clear, in return such analysis look like a part of propaganda, and that's about it. Today the propaganda plays the greater role as it goes via Internet. I only saw devolution and downfall of the USA, ever since, I opened my eyes. In media, they only showed the culture of sex, girls and boy dating, live in relationships, mcdonalds, microsoft. If you call this as culture of the USA, then it's better to remain an illiterate villager. USA's power was all because of the CIA, jesuits, and their military dominance on the planet. USA's troops are also present in the Indian Ocean territory, but what it has to do with India? They do it so that China don't destroy the resources, which USA has purchased from the andmanese native people. It's a known fact that the government of the USA purchases lands from other nations, infact, they create nations, after purchasing lands. This is the power, which USA has, only capitalism. The last sounds like conspiracy theories. I neither confirm, nor agree on them. Any conspiracy theories aren't easily to detect or to find even for the skilled detectives, or sorta organizations. There's such a thing as propaganda, and usually when it works it tries to image the look and the appearance of the other countries. Don't you want to say that there were no propaganda or USSR, or other today's countries? There are plenty of such. I see no reasons to blame USA. Besides, all things you've mentioned as sex, or McDonalds (McDonalds?! Seriously?!) - these things have been presented in the Earth since the greyest times. If I don't confuse anything in the most ancient text in the human history Machabcharata (I apologize if I wrote in wrongly) there was a story of a king in India who loosed his kingdom playing dice. Yes, after that circumstances he became wandering, he travelled, etc, and at the end he could get his kingdom back. No, I don't think those things you've mentioned are so "evil". I'd say there are many exaggerations and rumors about it. Many ones who want to defeat US (as China, for instance) are trying to do it purposefully. Just remember that App "Tik-Tok". Who's invention it is? In my memory US created many good buildings (I like US architecture), many plants, infrastructures, and also universities in not long than two centuries. I guess this is a good point to think that unlike some Europeans US made the more serious progress in that.
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Post by jonbain on Mar 17, 2023 10:38:08 GMT
I never said you are required to emulate their every stereotype, in order to be absolved of the sin of their destruction.
Well, I was simply making a joke, but it is a joke that contains an important truth. The jokes' premise is that it actually DOESN'T conform to the stereotypes any white person fetishizing Native Americans will have. When white people, whether American or foreign, fetishize the Natives of this continent (not mentioning you specifically or implying that you are, just a lot of white people in general), they always choose as the object of their obsession the Natives of the United States and Canada specifically, and not say... the Aztecs or the Mayans, because the Aztecs and Mayans were brutal, imperialistic, human sacrificing civilizations that can't be romanticized as noble savages. The white man fetishizing Native North Americans have this idea of this pure, peaceful, egalitarian, hunter gatherer culture on horseback that lives in harmony with nature and thanks the spirit of the deer when he kills the deer, and is so much more moral than the white man lecturing him about environmentalism like Captain Planet, constantly crying about the buffalo, and whose hands are completely clean of any historical crimes against each other or the white man whatsoever. This noble savage stereotype of Natives is a very simplified picture of a very diverse and very complex multitude of peoples (there is no homogeneous Native American culture) invented by the Hippies and the counter culture movement in the 1960's that reflects more the values of white West Coast hippies in opposition to their WW2 veteran 1950s era traditional American parents rather than any actual Native culture that ever existed in pre-Columbian America. This kind of fetishization of so called, 'less civilized peoples' has a long precedent in the history of Western Civilization going back to the Roman Empire and Tacitus's Germania where he gave the same, 'noble savage' treatment to my ancestors. The point of the joke that I told is that the Native Americans that lived in my area and over almost the entirety of the Southern and Midwestern United States were far more similar to the Aztecs and the Mayans then they were to any notion of the hunter gatherer noble savage. The land where I am sitting right now was in pre-Columbian times part of a Native American kingdom called Cofitachequi, which itself was the Easternmost extent of the vast Mississippian civilization that covered a truly enormous part of the United states. This civilization was an urban one with great cities on the Aztec or Mayan model centered around great earthen pyramids, that possessed plazas for ball games, temples, market places, and residential areas, with one of these cities being larger and more populous than London was at the same time. If you go to Illinois you can visit this city, called Cahokia, which has a great pyramid in the center that has a base the size of the Great Pyramid of Giza. The Mississippian culture was hierarchical being run by preist-god-kings that were thought to be descended from the sun. This was important because like the Aztecs they were polytheistic and, like the Japanese, their chief deity was the sun god. In the name of these gods they committed mass human sacrifices like the Aztecs or Mayans. They had a kind of feudalism in which lesser cities in the region were vassals and had to pay tribute to the most important settlement in the kingdom. Their society fed itself by farming vast quantities Maize farmed by peasants, they had art, sculptures, rudimentary metal working, and when our 'Hernando Cortez' the conquistador Hernando De Soto came to conquer their land they were formidable enough to defeat him outright and repel the Spanish from their territory. It was like an outpost of Central America in the mainland United States, indeed, their civilization almost certainly began in Central America. My point behind all of this is that the noble savage characterization of Native North Americans is largely a myth and a revolting and offensive one that actual Natives tend to cringe at when they see white people perpetuating it. They are in fact far more interesting and varied than this. Some Indians were agriculturalists, some were hunter gatherers, some were very primitive tribes, others carved whole cities into stone, some were akin to Mongol horse tribes, some were nomadic desert wanders, some were very peaceful, others, like the Comanche were the Native American version of ISIS in their brutality, some were monotheistic, some were polytheistic, most were animistic in some manner, some fought viciously against the encroaching Europeans, others sided with the Europeans against other Native tribes that were their ancestral enemies who they indeed saw just as foreign as the Europeans and hated much more. They also took land from one another, genocided other tribes, and enslaved them as well, the five civilized tribes in the American South that were famously put on the trail of tears owned plantations with black slaves, and were the last peoples to free their slaves fighting to the end to keep them. In many native societies how much honor you could gain from a defeated foe came from how brutally you tortured them. They have fascinating folkloric creatures in their mythologies like Wendigos, raven mockers, dragons, fairies, cannibalistic flying heads, skin walkers, owl witches, deer women, and a vigorous spiritual world, and interesting religious traditions with fanciful cosmologies, gods, and myths. In my state there were two tribes that lived here near one another whose languages were as distinct from each other as English is from Mandarin Chinese, so when you say we need to embrace that, "ancient spirit". Which ancient spirit are you talking about?
The one that is divided. Trauma, regardless of its source, has spirituality as its salvation. 200 years is just one day in the life of Watanka!
But there are two quite different types of such divisions. I speak of the internal division which makes it easier, for your enemies to divide you of their own deliberation.
Of that second most insidious type, you can fight against all you like,
as you do so valiantly, but it will eventually devour you, unless you can achieve that inner unity. And you can make that spirit into any shape you choose, but leave it amorphous,
and your enemy will destroy you with it.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 17, 2023 10:58:10 GMT
Well, I was simply making a joke, but it is a joke that contains an important truth. The jokes' premise is that it actually DOESN'T conform to the stereotypes any white person fetishizing Native Americans will have. When white people, whether American or foreign, fetishize the Natives of this continent (not mentioning you specifically or implying that you are, just a lot of white people in general), they always choose as the object of their obsession the Natives of the United States and Canada specifically, and not say... the Aztecs or the Mayans, because the Aztecs and Mayans were brutal, imperialistic, human sacrificing civilizations that can't be romanticized as noble savages. The white man fetishizing Native North Americans have this idea of this pure, peaceful, egalitarian, hunter gatherer culture on horseback that lives in harmony with nature and thanks the spirit of the deer when he kills the deer, and is so much more moral than the white man lecturing him about environmentalism like Captain Planet, constantly crying about the buffalo, and whose hands are completely clean of any historical crimes against each other or the white man whatsoever. This noble savage stereotype of Natives is a very simplified picture of a very diverse and very complex multitude of peoples (there is no homogeneous Native American culture) invented by the Hippies and the counter culture movement in the 1960's that reflects more the values of white West Coast hippies in opposition to their WW2 veteran 1950s era traditional American parents rather than any actual Native culture that ever existed in pre-Columbian America. This kind of fetishization of so called, 'less civilized peoples' has a long precedent in the history of Western Civilization going back to the Roman Empire and Tacitus's Germania where he gave the same, 'noble savage' treatment to my ancestors. The point of the joke that I told is that the Native Americans that lived in my area and over almost the entirety of the Southern and Midwestern United States were far more similar to the Aztecs and the Mayans then they were to any notion of the hunter gatherer noble savage. The land where I am sitting right now was in pre-Columbian times part of a Native American kingdom called Cofitachequi, which itself was the Easternmost extent of the vast Mississippian civilization that covered a truly enormous part of the United states. This civilization was an urban one with great cities on the Aztec or Mayan model centered around great earthen pyramids, that possessed plazas for ball games, temples, market places, and residential areas, with one of these cities being larger and more populous than London was at the same time. If you go to Illinois you can visit this city, called Cahokia, which has a great pyramid in the center that has a base the size of the Great Pyramid of Giza. The Mississippian culture was hierarchical being run by preist-god-kings that were thought to be descended from the sun. This was important because like the Aztecs they were polytheistic and, like the Japanese, their chief deity was the sun god. In the name of these gods they committed mass human sacrifices like the Aztecs or Mayans. They had a kind of feudalism in which lesser cities in the region were vassals and had to pay tribute to the most important settlement in the kingdom. Their society fed itself by farming vast quantities Maize farmed by peasants, they had art, sculptures, rudimentary metal working, and when our 'Hernando Cortez' the conquistador Hernando De Soto came to conquer their land they were formidable enough to defeat him outright and repel the Spanish from their territory. It was like an outpost of Central America in the mainland United States, indeed, their civilization almost certainly began in Central America. My point behind all of this is that the noble savage characterization of Native North Americans is largely a myth and a revolting and offensive one that actual Natives tend to cringe at when they see white people perpetuating it. They are in fact far more interesting and varied than this. Some Indians were agriculturalists, some were hunter gatherers, some were very primitive tribes, others carved whole cities into stone, some were akin to Mongol horse tribes, some were nomadic desert wanders, some were very peaceful, others, like the Comanche were the Native American version of ISIS in their brutality, some were monotheistic, some were polytheistic, most were animistic in some manner, some fought viciously against the encroaching Europeans, others sided with the Europeans against other Native tribes that were their ancestral enemies who they indeed saw just as foreign as the Europeans and hated much more. They also took land from one another, genocided other tribes, and enslaved them as well, the five civilized tribes in the American South that were famously put on the trail of tears owned plantations with black slaves, and were the last peoples to free their slaves fighting to the end to keep them. In many native societies how much honor you could gain from a defeated foe came from how brutally you tortured them. They have fascinating folkloric creatures in their mythologies like Wendigos, raven mockers, dragons, fairies, cannibalistic flying heads, skin walkers, owl witches, deer women, and a vigorous spiritual world, and interesting religious traditions with fanciful cosmologies, gods, and myths. In my state there were two tribes that lived here near one another whose languages were as distinct from each other as English is from Mandarin Chinese, so when you say we need to embrace that, "ancient spirit". Which ancient spirit are you talking about?
The one that is divided. Trauma, regardless of its source, has spirituality as its salvation. 200 years is just one day in the life of Watanka!
But there are two quite different types of such divisions. I speak of the internal division which makes it easier, for your enemies to divide you of their own deliberation.
Of that second most insidious type, you can fight against all you like,
as you do so valiantly, but it will eventually devour you, unless you can achieve that inner unity. And you can make that spirit into any shape you choose, but leave it amorphous,
and your enemy will destroy you with it.
I agree with you at least in regards to spirituality. Our society has turned to mud since the younger generation abandoned God. We need a Christian revival right now. These new morals, or rather lack thereof, are not working. Luckily, historically when we enter the fourth decade of any given century in the US a great revival happens. 1740s first great awakening, 1840s second great awakening, 1940s evangelical revival during WW2. The United States has always been a profoundly Christian country. Protestant Christianity is woven into our cultural DNA. Cultural DNA is very powerful. Certain things are just woven in to the fabric of certain cultures that can never be shaken off by them no matter how hard some people may try. It's like a ghost that continuously haunts them. In the United States, that's Christianity. We are God haunted. We will find our way back to God eventually.
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