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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 5, 2023 14:24:54 GMT
If God created all the things, everything in the universe, where did He take the material? He must have created the matter first, right? Bible says that firstly God created the skies and the earth (Genesis 1:1). So, it seems that He created the laws of how those two exist also. I mean there should exist certain laws for the earth and the skies, right? Doesn't it mean that the laws for it had been created along with the matter? However, if God hereafter created a man, then He, God, must knew which laws should be fitted for a man to live in them. Such deities as heavens and hell must have concepts already.
I guess either everything had been created already in the beginning, or it's impossible that things left unchanged. I mean if the nature had changed after Adam&Eve's fall, then it should have been noticed in Bible, right? So, the question is – all what was created after – was just an additional work. God should have a plan for everything, and since the first second of the creation everything should appear at the same time.
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Post by jonbain on Mar 8, 2023 7:21:41 GMT
If God created all the things, everything in the universe, where did He take the material? He must have created the matter first, right? Bible says that firstly God created the skies and the earth (Genesis 1:1). So, it seems that He created the laws of how those two exist also. I mean there should exist certain laws for the earth and the skies, right? Doesn't it mean that the laws for it had been created along with the matter? However, if God hereafter created a man, then He, God, must knew which laws should be fitted for a man to live in them. Such deities as heavens and hell must have concepts already. I guess either everything had been created already in the beginning, or it's impossible that things left unchanged. I mean if the nature had changed after Adam&Eve's fall, then it should have been noticed in Bible, right? So, the question is – all what was created after – was just an additional work. God should have a plan for everything, and since the first second of the creation everything should appear at the same time.
There had to be a time before the material universe, when all was only pure consciousness, without determined mechanism.
What sets apart the material from consciousness, is that the material has determined laws,
that will always be realized in time, and thus can be predicted perfectly.
Consciousness has a relationship with time quite different, in that it does not need to obey any pattern, but that it can do so if it wants.
So we should easily see that pattern-following, is a subset of consciousness fundamentally, because consciousness can follow a pattern, or not; but the material is not free to go were consciousness goes.
So the material originates with consciousness, so its a type of consciousness, stripped of awareness.
Not unlike the fascist nazi psychopaths that provoke me at almost every turn.
Unthinking dogs, chained and beaten their whole lives, lashing out at the only one who can help them.
But like the material world they are just more particles on a trajectory, and need to be deflected at every step, lest they drag me into their shadows
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 8, 2023 20:23:48 GMT
If God created all the things, everything in the universe, where did He take the material? He must have created the matter first, right? Bible says that firstly God created the skies and the earth (Genesis 1:1). So, it seems that He created the laws of how those two exist also. I mean there should exist certain laws for the earth and the skies, right? Doesn't it mean that the laws for it had been created along with the matter? However, if God hereafter created a man, then He, God, must knew which laws should be fitted for a man to live in them. Such deities as heavens and hell must have concepts already. I guess either everything had been created already in the beginning, or it's impossible that things left unchanged. I mean if the nature had changed after Adam&Eve's fall, then it should have been noticed in Bible, right? So, the question is – all what was created after – was just an additional work. God should have a plan for everything, and since the first second of the creation everything should appear at the same time.
There had to be a time before the material universe, when all was only pure consciousness, without determined mechanism.
What sets apart the material from consciousness, is that the material has determined laws,
that will always be realized in time, and thus can be predicted perfectly.
Consciousness has a relationship with time quite different, in that it does not need to obey any pattern, but that it can do so if it wants.
So we should easily see that pattern-following, is a subset of consciousness fundamentally, because consciousness can follow a pattern, or not; but the material is not free to go were consciousness goes.
So the material originates with consciousness, so its a type of consciousness, stripped of awareness.
Not unlike the fascist nazi psychopaths that provoke me at almost every turn.
Unthinking dogs, chained and beaten their whole lives, lashing out at the only one who can help them.
But like the material world they are just more particles on a trajectory, and need to be deflected at every step, lest they drag me into their shadows
I agree. It must be that the consciousness (I believe it was God) must exist before. Or else, I don't even know what to think. Reading your articles and comment I understand one important thing for me - I guess I do know know physics, or what I had learn in school was crap. Unfortunately, I'm not so well-minded. I have to read, and reread books to get thoughts in a more straight, clear way. This is one thing you've said that remarks my attention in the most bright way: "the material is not free to go were consciousness goes" ('were' means 'where', right?). You know, I guess this is something that hits (or strikes, etc) the materialism intensively hard.
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Post by joustos on Mar 9, 2023 16:18:12 GMT
Gentlemen, you seem to think that MATTER and CONSCIOUSNESS or GOD are substances [given realities, prior to the formed, speci-fied, historical, universe]. I maintain with ERIUGENA that the universe is forever NATURA NATURATA and NATURA NATURANS. [NO BEGINNING AND NO END -- or reaching of a goal.] Consciousness is in various degrees, and even kinds, part of the species. I can also be superstitious about extra-terrestrial realities, cultural traditions embedded in my self.
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Post by jonbain on Mar 9, 2023 20:11:51 GMT
There had to be a time before the material universe, when all was only pure consciousness, without determined mechanism.
What sets apart the material from consciousness, is that the material has determined laws,
that will always be realized in time, and thus can be predicted perfectly.
Consciousness has a relationship with time quite different, in that it does not need to obey any pattern, but that it can do so if it wants.
So we should easily see that pattern-following, is a subset of consciousness fundamentally, because consciousness can follow a pattern, or not; but the material is not free to go were consciousness goes.
So the material originates with consciousness, so its a type of consciousness, stripped of awareness.
Not unlike the fascist nazi psychopaths that provoke me at almost every turn.
Unthinking dogs, chained and beaten their whole lives, lashing out at the only one who can help them.
But like the material world they are just more particles on a trajectory, and need to be deflected at every step, lest they drag me into their shadows
I agree. It must be that the consciousness (I believe it was God) must exist before. Or else, I don't even know what to think. Reading your articles and comment I understand one important thing for me - I guess I do know know physics, or what I had learn in school was crap. Unfortunately, I'm not so well-minded. I have to read, and reread books to get thoughts in a more straight, clear way. This is one thing you've said that remarks my attention in the most bright way: "the material is not free to go were consciousness goes" ('were' means 'where', right?). You know, I guess this is something that hits (or strikes, etc) the materialism intensively hard. where !!! yes its nice to know you read it carefully enough to see what was meant the people that invented english spelling were sadists
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Post by jonbain on Mar 9, 2023 20:15:16 GMT
Gentlemen, you seem to think that MATTER and CONSCIOUSNESS or GOD are substances [given realities, prior to the formed, speci-fied, historical, universe]. I maintain with ERIUGENA that the universe is forever NATURA NATURATA and NATURA NATURANS. [NO BEGINNING AND NO END -- or reaching of a goal.] Consciousness is in various degrees, and even kinds, part of the species. I can also be superstitious about extra-terrestrial realities, cultural traditions embedded in my self. We need to separate the terms Universe and Multiverse. Universe is typically this 3D world estimated to be over 13 billion years old. It has a beginning in time, and perhaps an end too.
The multiverse is that which is beyond our local comprehension of time. Whether it has beginning or end is beyond those words themselves, but being Conscious, it may decide to have such, purely as a matter of good aesthetic taste.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Mar 10, 2023 9:11:49 GMT
If God created all the things, everything in the universe, where did He take the material? He must have created the matter first, right? Bible says that firstly God created the skies and the earth (Genesis 1:1). So, it seems that He created the laws of how those two exist also. I mean there should exist certain laws for the earth and the skies, right? Doesn't it mean that the laws for it had been created along with the matter? However, if God hereafter created a man, then He, God, must knew which laws should be fitted for a man to live in them. Such deities as heavens and hell must have concepts already. I guess either everything had been created already in the beginning, or it's impossible that things left unchanged. I mean if the nature had changed after Adam&Eve's fall, then it should have been noticed in Bible, right? So, the question is – all what was created after – was just an additional work. God should have a plan for everything, and since the first second of the creation everything should appear at the same time. You can't logically wrap any god from any religion into a conceptual box and it not have with it tons of contradictions because their all man made attempts to conceptually understand and convey the "thing" and or "things" that is and or are responsible for the cosmos, can't me done yet over and over again (over 5200 times currently) people have created a model and have failed because theirs always going to be someone that's smarter then the person and or persons that created said religion that can and does find the flaws and discrepancies hidden within said religion and then there are the followers of these religions going behind with duct tape trying to patch the spots that are falling off do to said persons dismantling there religions concepts (apologetics)
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 10, 2023 10:00:17 GMT
I agree. It must be that the consciousness (I believe it was God) must exist before. Or else, I don't even know what to think. Reading your articles and comment I understand one important thing for me - I guess I do know know physics, or what I had learn in school was crap. Unfortunately, I'm not so well-minded. I have to read, and reread books to get thoughts in a more straight, clear way. This is one thing you've said that remarks my attention in the most bright way: "the material is not free to go were consciousness goes" ('were' means 'where', right?). You know, I guess this is something that hits (or strikes, etc) the materialism intensively hard. where !!! yes its nice to know you read it carefully enough to see what was meant the people that invented english spelling were sadists
But I must apologize, unfortunately not often I read carefully. On one hand it is my own fault, but on the other is anxiety. Also want to add that melodically and the rest I do like English, I swear. There are plenty of accents. True, many of them are difficult to recognise, but some of them I am looking forward to learn as cockney accent, Scotland accent, southern accents (Clovis said my accent is not far from the Southern), and northern accents as from Boston. By the way, it is awesome you raise this question! – Which English accents are dominated in South Africa? And has it your own accent? Thank you.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 10, 2023 12:11:02 GMT
If God created all the things, everything in the universe, where did He take the material? He must have created the matter first, right? Bible says that firstly God created the skies and the earth (Genesis 1:1). So, it seems that He created the laws of how those two exist also. I mean there should exist certain laws for the earth and the skies, right? Doesn't it mean that the laws for it had been created along with the matter? However, if God hereafter created a man, then He, God, must knew which laws should be fitted for a man to live in them. Such deities as heavens and hell must have concepts already. I guess either everything had been created already in the beginning, or it's impossible that things left unchanged. I mean if the nature had changed after Adam&Eve's fall, then it should have been noticed in Bible, right? So, the question is – all what was created after – was just an additional work. God should have a plan for everything, and since the first second of the creation everything should appear at the same time. You can't logically wrap any god from any religion into a conceptual box and it not have with it tons of contradictions because their all man made attempts to conceptually understand and convey the "thing" and or "things" that is and or are responsible for the cosmos, can't me done yet over and over again (over 5200 times currently) people have created a model and have failed because theirs always going to be someone that's smarter then the person and or persons that created said religion that can and does find the flaws and discrepancies hidden within said religion and then there are the followers of these religions going behind with duct tape trying to patch the spots that are falling off do to said persons dismantling there religions concepts (apologetics) This is a good remark indeed, but if someone isn't allowed to think or to guess about something, than how to do except for believing in it? How to compare which religion is better or finer, and so on? And if gods are out of any chances to be captured by our inner mind sets, then how do we know about them anyway? – However, I would say that belief is not so unimportant. Faith and Belief are usually underrated. Our intuitions aren't worse, than our minds. (I don't know the sources of intuition, I guess it comes from heart or somewhere else.) Mind is mind, a heart is a heart. If I feel that something isn't okay, then why not to trust to it? You know, before we became people we were apes, and before that we were trilobites or something, but even being apes somehow we got minds. For me it is a sign that conveys the mind is not only the one thing we have to be absolutely focused. The mind should not become a dictator to our body. I guess.
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Post by jonbain on Mar 10, 2023 16:59:38 GMT
where !!! yes its nice to know you read it carefully enough to see what was meant the people that invented english spelling were sadists
But I must apologize, unfortunately not often I read carefully. On one hand it is my own fault, but on the other is anxiety. Also want to add that melodically and the rest I do like English, I swear. There are plenty of accents. True, many of them are difficult to recognise, but some of them I am looking forward to learn as cockney accent, Scotland accent, southern accents (Clovis said my accent is not far from the Southern), and northern accents as from Boston. By the way, it is awesome you raise this question! – Which English accents are dominated in South Africa? And has it your own accent? Thank you.
Each region has its own accent, and many speak a mixture of
various local languages with about 50% english thrown in to make sense of it.
The Boere do more damage to England when they attempt to speak the language, than they ever could have hoped to at war.
I found that my own accent is Surrey, due to my being born in the heart of Zululand.
Though I do a variety of bad accent impressions spontaneously.
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Post by MAYA-EL on Mar 10, 2023 17:00:59 GMT
You can't logically wrap any god from any religion into a conceptual box and it not have with it tons of contradictions because their all man made attempts to conceptually understand and convey the "thing" and or "things" that is and or are responsible for the cosmos, can't me done yet over and over again (over 5200 times currently) people have created a model and have failed because theirs always going to be someone that's smarter then the person and or persons that created said religion that can and does find the flaws and discrepancies hidden within said religion and then there are the followers of these religions going behind with duct tape trying to patch the spots that are falling off do to said persons dismantling there religions concepts (apologetics) This is a good remark indeed, but if someone isn't allowed to think or to guess about something, than how to do except for believing in it? How to compare which religion is better or finer, and so on? And if gods are out of any chances to be captured by our inner mind sets, then how do we know about them anyway? – However, I would say that belief is not so unimportant. Faith and Belief are usually underrated. Our intuitions aren't worse, than our minds. (I don't know the sources of intuition, I guess it comes from heart or somewhere else.) Mind is mind, a heart is a heart. If I feel that something isn't okay, then why not to trust to it? You know, before we became people we were apes, and before that we were trilobites or something, but even being apes somehow we got minds. For me it is a sign that conveys the mind is not only the one thing we have to be absolutely focused. The mind should not become a dictator to our body. I guess. I didn't say that we aren't aloud to think about it and contemplate on it what I said was that a person cannot grasp the entire thing using language and give it to others much like you can't put the sea in a cup and let the sand dry out so you can vacuum at the bottom of the ocean and yet people try. The other thing that I notice is that some eastern man made a concept popular here in the west I can't remember his name but I think he was part of the theosophical society anyways he said that everything is consciousness and to this day people still ecco his words yet they are contradicting to other beliefs typically held by the same individuals which is that the human being is a micro cosmic replica of the cosmos as above so below But if we look at the human only about 5% is conscious while the mechanical aspect is ran unconscious and was created unconscious only to later on gain conciseness as it matured so then if we are a mini reality then that would mean that everything is not consciousness and that consciousness is a byproduct of unconsciousness
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 10, 2023 18:30:39 GMT
But I must apologize, unfortunately not often I read carefully. On one hand it is my own fault, but on the other is anxiety. Also want to add that melodically and the rest I do like English, I swear. There are plenty of accents. True, many of them are difficult to recognise, but some of them I am looking forward to learn as cockney accent, Scotland accent, southern accents (Clovis said my accent is not far from the Southern), and northern accents as from Boston. By the way, it is awesome you raise this question! – Which English accents are dominated in South Africa? And has it your own accent? Thank you.
Each region has its own accent, and many speak a mixture of
various local languages with about 50% english thrown in to make sense of it.
The Boere do more damage to England when they attempt to speak the language, than they ever could have hoped to at war.
I found that my own accent is Surrey, due to my being born in the heart of Zululand.
Though I do a variety of bad accent impressions spontaneously.
Was it your voice in your videos on YouTube? Because for my opinion your accent is like that original English. Like from the past. But of course I can't be sure not being an expert. Besides listening to the songs doesn't mean to hear the voice correctly.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 10, 2023 18:45:12 GMT
This is a good remark indeed, but if someone isn't allowed to think or to guess about something, than how to do except for believing in it? How to compare which religion is better or finer, and so on? And if gods are out of any chances to be captured by our inner mind sets, then how do we know about them anyway? – However, I would say that belief is not so unimportant. Faith and Belief are usually underrated. Our intuitions aren't worse, than our minds. (I don't know the sources of intuition, I guess it comes from heart or somewhere else.) Mind is mind, a heart is a heart. If I feel that something isn't okay, then why not to trust to it? You know, before we became people we were apes, and before that we were trilobites or something, but even being apes somehow we got minds. For me it is a sign that conveys the mind is not only the one thing we have to be absolutely focused. The mind should not become a dictator to our body. I guess. I didn't say that we aren't aloud to think about it and contemplate on it what I said was that a person cannot grasp the entire thing using language and give it to others much like you can't put the sea in a cup and let the sand dry out so you can vacuum at the bottom of the ocean and yet people try. The other thing that I notice is that some eastern man made a concept popular here in the west I can't remember his name but I think he was part of the theosophical society anyways he said that everything is consciousness and to this day people still ecco his words yet they are contradicting to other beliefs typically held by the same individuals which is that the human being is a micro cosmic replica of the cosmos as above so below But if we look at the human only about 5% is conscious while the mechanical aspect is ran unconscious and was created unconscious only to later on gain conciseness as it matured so then if we are a mini reality then that would mean that everything is not consciousness and that consciousness is a byproduct of unconsciousness Was it Paul Tillich? And now I can't say I understand you about the semantics. A thought of mine was not about "how big" or "great", "vast", or "broad" something in our heads. How are one supposed to measure it anyway? By sculpin' out our scull boxes? An idea of a monstrous whale is bigger, than an idea of a tiny insect? Then what about the image in binoculars and a microscope, are they have the same size? Well, firstly, of course I am not disagree about that remark about the limits of knowledge. Yes, our speculations of God are not the true investigation of it. Let's say if we are hunting for ectoplasma and we trace something (maybe some jellyfish ooze, or something similar) it is a better resource, because we can not only grasp it, cut it, smell it, drop it, push or pull it, but we can think about it, imagine it, and then go back to it again. Non empirical way bring us less materials (however, I am not against rational as Descartes way; I think Descartes himself had demonstrated how brilliant his investigations could be, and he acted less empirically, which is the fact).
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Post by MAYA-EL on Mar 11, 2023 4:49:12 GMT
I didn't say that we aren't aloud to think about it and contemplate on it what I said was that a person cannot grasp the entire thing using language and give it to others much like you can't put the sea in a cup and let the sand dry out so you can vacuum at the bottom of the ocean and yet people try. The other thing that I notice is that some eastern man made a concept popular here in the west I can't remember his name but I think he was part of the theosophical society anyways he said that everything is consciousness and to this day people still ecco his words yet they are contradicting to other beliefs typically held by the same individuals which is that the human being is a micro cosmic replica of the cosmos as above so below But if we look at the human only about 5% is conscious while the mechanical aspect is ran unconscious and was created unconscious only to later on gain conciseness as it matured so then if we are a mini reality then that would mean that everything is not consciousness and that consciousness is a byproduct of unconsciousness Was it Paul Tillich? And now I can't say I understand you about the semantics. A thought of mine was not about "how big" or "great", "vast", or "broad" something in our heads. How are one supposed to measure it anyway? By sculpin' out our scull boxes? An idea of a monstrous whale is bigger, than an idea of a tiny insect? Then what about the image in binoculars and a microscope, are they have the same size? Well, firstly, of course I am not disagree about that remark about the limits of knowledge. Yes, our speculations of God are not the true investigation of it. Let's say if we are hunting for ectoplasma and we trace something (maybe some jellyfish ooze, or something similar) it is a better resource, because we can not only grasp it, cut it, smell it, drop it, push or pull it, but we can think about it, imagine it, and then go back to it again. Non empirical way bring us less materials (however, I am not against rational as Descartes way; I think Descartes himself had demonstrated how brilliant his investigations could be, and he acted less empirically, which is the fact). I was just trying to convey that people have been trying to understand and talk about and share their concepts of what the all creator is in an attempt to understand it but mankind fails everytime and 9nly seems to be successful successful at creating a limited creation full of flaws and defects and probably not even resembling the actual all creator one bit I wasn't saying that that's what you were doing but just that I was reminded of it is all.
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Post by jonbain on Mar 11, 2023 8:29:45 GMT
Each region has its own accent, and many speak a mixture of
various local languages with about 50% english thrown in to make sense of it.
The Boere do more damage to England when they attempt to speak the language, than they ever could have hoped to at war.
I found that my own accent is Surrey, due to my being born in the heart of Zululand.
Though I do a variety of bad accent impressions spontaneously.
Was it your voice in your videos on YouTube? Because for my opinion your accent is like that original English. Like from the past. But of course I can't be sure not being an expert. Besides listening to the songs doesn't mean to hear the voice correctly.
The talking voice in the astrophysics videos is my natural voice, but when i chant with the muses i play around with all sorts of accents.
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