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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 9, 2022 1:49:37 GMT
www.euronews.com/2022/03/08/how-locals-in-kharkiv-are-switching-to-ukrainian-language-amid-the-terror-of-russian-bombiIn this photo provided by Yurii Kochubei, a view of the damage after shelling on a sports venue, in Kharkiv, Ukraine, Saturday, March 5, 2022Konstantin Zadorozhny, 50, teaches at the university in Kharkiv, a city that has been under heavy bombardment since the start of the war in Ukraine on 24 February.
Here he tells Euronews about the damage inflicted on the city, the psychological trauma of living under attack and how some in this Russian-speaking area are switching to Ukrainian to differentiate them from those bombing Kharkiv.
At 5 am on 24 February we woke to explosions. The first one or two days it was mostly rumbling because they were hitting military objects first. And then very big problems started, Russian troops tried to take the city by storm.
"In Ukraine, a lot of people went into territorial defence. These are actually armed residents. Many of them have some experience -- although by no means all of them -- having also served in the conflict in Donbas (eastern Ukraine) that has been going on for eight years. But still, most of them are ordinary people with no combat experience.
"I do not go far, because my health condition is not very good after my heart attack.
What's happening in the neighbourhood? I showed pictures of the Palace of Labour. It's not far from me, near the city hall. Either a missile or a very powerful bomb hit it. Constant explosions from all sides.
"Our mayor's office posts pictures, our regional administration posts pictures too. In this respect it's good - the awareness is high. Well, friends, relatives also from all over Kharkiv tell us, send photos. "Yesterday they said that they were shelled very strongly and my friends who live there confirm it. We have a residential area Saltovka - a very large residential area. There are high-rise buildings of nine, 12, 16 floors, Soviet construction, about 40 houses have burned down. These are fires in houses that were hit by missiles. "We know where our troops and the Russian troops are located. The shelling is coming from the Russian side, it is very clearly visible. Locals can see who is shooting. And the general opinion of the townspeople is that there is no Ukrainian shelling, only the Russians are shooting. This is the opinion of the residents of the city.
Those people who never wanted to switch (from speaking Russian), during this week began to switch to the Ukrainian language just to distinguish themselves from the occupants.
I was standing in line at the store again today, going out. People say the same thing among themselves: Russia is shelling, Russia is bombing. There are practically no Ukrainian planes over Kharkiv now. The aviation that remains is in the western part of the country. I can hear the planes very well. The plane flies low, a strong sound - a dropped bomb, the bomb explodes. "Mostly we sit at home. We have an old house. It's more than a hundred years old, the walls are thick. Unfortunately, the basement in it is not adapted to be a shelter. You can't go down into it. In the house, because of the thick walls, you can more or less safely wait out shelling and bombing. "There are a lot of Kharkiv residents in the subway right now. This is probably the safest place in Kharkiv. A lot of people are sitting in basements.
My cousin and her son and grandchildren are sitting in the basement. Their basement is a little bit better. They sit in the basement all day and only come out when there is no alarm and go up to have a little rest. "At night, from time to time, there is shelling. It is hard to sleep. It is hard from the silence. The silence presses. In between these [blasts] tension: you wait, where will it hit? Will it hit your home? All this is psychologically very difficult.
There was no real reason to attack Ukraine. It's just scary. Some people try to leave. You can get out. People go by train, some leave by cars. But it's still dangerous. It's hard to get to the station, especially from the districts that are being shelled. But they are leaving. Cabs work, they take people out sometimes, too.
"There are stores near me, they work. Not all supermarkets. People come and stand in line. It should be noted, though, that people are holding up very well. They don't panic. There is no crush in the line.
"It's a little worse with pharmacies, but they also exist and work. It's bad in the areas that are closer to the outskirts, there are more supermarkets ruined. For example, we have the Horizon housing estate in the east of the city. I used to live there, and I have many acquaintances there as well, they wrote that both supermarkets that stood there burned down and there were problems.
There is no hunger yet, but some shortages are beginning to be felt. Humanitarian aid is being delivered to the city. There is a network of points where you can get it. I did not go there because we still have food. Many people need it more, so I don't go there.
"Kharkiv was once founded by Ukrainian Cossacks, and it was Ukrainian-speaking for a long time. It became Russian-speaking later under Soviet power. At that time it was almost entirely Russian-speaking, there were few Ukrainians.
"Under independent Ukraine, the number of Ukrainian speakers was increasing, especially after 2014, but there was still a majority of Russian speakers. After this invasion, after the bombing, after the shelling, despite all the sympathies that exist and the family ties with Russia, the vast majority of the population now has a dramatic change of heart to an anti-Russian attitude. Because when you are being bombed in any other way it is hard to perceive. "Those people who never wanted to switch (to the Ukrainian language), during this week began to switch to the Ukrainian language just to distinguish themselves from the occupants.
"The range of opinions was wide. Kharkiv has traditionally favoured close ties with Russia. Many of our politicians in Kharkiv based their policy on this idea of brotherhood with Russia, and they built it quite successfully. The population supported it. And now probably part of the population holds the same views. Sometimes it's simply impossible to change their minds. But I am talking about a general trend. The majority of the population has changed dramatically, even if they were sympathetic (to Russia). We have a Russian-speaking mayor, he speaks in Russian now and talks about how we are defending the city from occupation. We have his competitor in the last election, who was all pro-Russian and now openly spoke out against this aggression.
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 31, 2022 4:53:58 GMT
It should have always been Ukrainian in Ukraine. I always wondered why some spoke Russian there. I only used Ukrainian there and actually didn't hear or speak much Russian until I came to USA. Then was like is this some bad Ukrainian spoken here by these slavs? Then learned it was called Russian. But there must be a difference because it is 2 different countries with different languages!
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 31, 2022 21:41:23 GMT
Honestly, if you can understand what a Russian is saying, that is if Russian is mutually intelligible with Ukrainian, then they are not different languages. They are just dialects of the same language. A language is a tool of communication and if Russians and Ukrainians can communicate with one another with the little problem both using their native tongues they are speaking the same language. If you're going to differentiate the two as different languages you might as well say that Ulster-Scots is a different language from English.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 31, 2022 22:13:40 GMT
Honestly, if you can understand what a Russian is saying, that is if Russian is mutually intelligible with Ukrainian, then they are not different languages. They are just dialects of the same language. A language is a tool of communication and if Russians and Ukrainians can communicate with one another with the little problem both using their native tongues they are speaking the same language. If you're going to differentiate the two as different languages you might as well say that Ulster-Scots is a different language from English. Sorry, but no. If to accept this I can understand what you're saying point leads that I can say the same about Polish, Lithuanian, Belarus's and so many closer languages, but this is not true. It only appears to be so, and many russian propaganda is trying to do anything to impose that quite weird view. I can't say I understand completely a Lviv citizen, and a citizen from Odessa may be confused hearing the one from Chernihiv. But yes, Kharkiv citizens would not be so far hearing russian speech. That dialect argument ... oh, this is absolutely horrible argument considering historical point. Briefly, Kiev was founded ~850 year. Moscow - only in 13 centurye. Any questions about dialects? I was studying the Old Slav, and I am aware about forms of change in the roots, and the shorter forms of adjectives, etc, so I can say that it must be obvious that Ukrainian is much more older language, than Russian. Any good expert can confirm my point. So, if you want to study this line you should not stick to some one source; who knows who shares that info? As I said russian propaganda does almost everything to say that there is no Ukraine. The real fact of speaking is much more difficult. And of course, Ukrainian is not Russian, and vice versa.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 31, 2022 23:26:52 GMT
Honestly, if you can understand what a Russian is saying, that is if Russian is mutually intelligible with Ukrainian, then they are not different languages. They are just dialects of the same language. A language is a tool of communication and if Russians and Ukrainians can communicate with one another with the little problem both using their native tongues they are speaking the same language. If you're going to differentiate the two as different languages you might as well say that Ulster-Scots is a different language from English. Sorry, but no. If to accept this I can understand what you're saying point leads that I can say the same about Polish, Lithuanian, Belarus's and so many closer languages, but this is not true. It only appears to be so, and many russian propaganda is trying to do anything to impose that quite weird view. I can't say I understand completely a Lviv citizen, and a citizen from Odessa may be confused hearing the one from Chernihiv. But yes, Kharkiv citizens would not be so far hearing russian speech. That dialect argument ... oh, this is absolutely horrible argument considering historical point. Briefly, Kiev was founded ~850 year. Moscow - only in 13 centurye. Any questions about dialects? I was studying the Old Slav, and I am aware about forms of change in the roots, and the shorter forms of adjectives, etc, so I can say that it must be obvious that Ukrainian is much more older language, than Russian. Any good expert can confirm my point. So, if you want to study this line you should not stick to some one source; who knows who shares that info? As I said russian propaganda does almost everything to say that there is no Ukraine. The real fact of speaking is much more difficult. And of course, Ukrainian is not Russian, and vice versa. I didn't say that the Russian dialect is older then the Ukrainian one I said they are both dialects of the same language (if they are mutually intelligible) regardless of which came first. And if you can understand Polish, Lithuanian, and Belarussian then they are also the same language. This isn't to discount these people's distinct cultures or national identities but if they can understand one another in their native tongue then they aren't speaking different languages. I hear this is a huge problem in Eastern Europe for instance in the Balkans where two ethnic groups that hate each other that speak with slightly different accents but pretend not to understand one another for BS nationalistic reasons. You can study the structures of languages all you want. I know that linguists argue day and night over what constitutes a dialect and what constitutes a language and cannot agree on any of it and in my opinion they overcomplicate a simple issue. My rule is "if I can't understand it, it's a different language. If I can understand it but it sounds funny its a dialect." At the end of the day, language is a tool of communication, nothing more. If you are communicating with me in an effective manner where I can understand every word you are saying then you are speaking my language. If what you are saying is gobblety gook to me you are not speaking my language. People say, "well someone in Bavaria can't understand someone in Hamburg or vice versa, are they different languages?" And my answer is yes which is not surprising because those two parts of Germany have been independent of one another for over a millennium and "Germany" was invented in 1871. This goes for Italy as well. Most of the linguistic categories especially in Europe tend to be categorized and argued about do to nationalistic reasons and tend be tied up in such kinds of petty baggage. Everyone wants to have a language to legitimize themselves when in practice they really do not in any meaningful sense. I don't care about Russian propaganda or pissing contests between countries, I care about common sense. Anyways looking it up the two languages aren't mutually intelligible as from what I've read Russians can't understand Ukrainian and Ukrainians only understand Russian because most of them can speak it so they are different languages. But my point about mutual intelligibility stands for "languages" that are mutually intelligible.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 1, 2022 0:49:12 GMT
eugene This Ted-ED video below better explains my point. Classifications of languages mainly follow nationalistic pissing contests rather than anything objective. Different Chinese dialects are more different from one another than Ukrainian and Russian but are somehow considered dialects of the same language. If any line can be drawn between language that is in any way objective the only sensible one has to be mutual intelligibility. However, I like the proper linguistic term that describes different speech as "varieties" rather than languages or dialects as it better captures the grey areas in between the two rather than drawing hard arbitrary lines between speech for what are basically political purposes.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 1, 2022 6:22:05 GMT
Sorry, but no. If to accept this I can understand what you're saying point leads that I can say the same about Polish, Lithuanian, Belarus's and so many closer languages, but this is not true. It only appears to be so, and many russian propaganda is trying to do anything to impose that quite weird view. I can't say I understand completely a Lviv citizen, and a citizen from Odessa may be confused hearing the one from Chernihiv. But yes, Kharkiv citizens would not be so far hearing russian speech. That dialect argument ... oh, this is absolutely horrible argument considering historical point. Briefly, Kiev was founded ~850 year. Moscow - only in 13 centurye. Any questions about dialects? I was studying the Old Slav, and I am aware about forms of change in the roots, and the shorter forms of adjectives, etc, so I can say that it must be obvious that Ukrainian is much more older language, than Russian. Any good expert can confirm my point. So, if you want to study this line you should not stick to some one source; who knows who shares that info? As I said russian propaganda does almost everything to say that there is no Ukraine. The real fact of speaking is much more difficult. And of course, Ukrainian is not Russian, and vice versa. I didn't say that the Russian dialect is older then the Ukrainian one I said they are both dialects of the same language (if they are mutually intelligible) regardless of which came first. And if you can understand Polish, Lithuanian, and Belarussian then they are also the same language. This isn't to discount these people's distinct cultures or national identities but if they can understand one another in their native tongue then they aren't speaking different languages. I hear this is a huge problem in Eastern Europe for instance in the Balkans where two ethnic groups that hate each other that speak with slightly different accents but pretend not to understand one another for BS nationalistic reasons. You can study the structures of languages all you want. I know that linguists argue day and night over what constitutes a dialect and what constitutes a language and cannot agree on any of it and in my opinion they overcomplicate a simple issue. My rule is "if I can't understand it, it's a different language. If I can understand it but it sounds funny its a dialect." At the end of the day, language is a tool of communication, nothing more. If you are communicating with me in an effective manner where I can understand every word you are saying then you are speaking my language. If what you are saying is gobblety gook to me you are not speaking my language. People say, "well someone in Bavaria can't understand someone in Hamburg or vice versa, are they different languages?" And my answer is yes which is not surprising because those two parts of Germany have been independent of one another for over a millennium and "Germany" was invented in 1871. This goes for Italy as well. Most of the linguistic categories especially in Europe tend to be categorized and argued about do to nationalistic reasons and tend be tied up in such kinds of petty baggage. Everyone wants to have a language to legitimize themselves when in practice they really do not in any meaningful sense. I don't care about Russian propaganda or pissing contests between countries, I care about common sense. Anyways looking it up the two languages aren't mutually intelligible as from what I've read Russians can't understand Ukrainian and Ukrainians only understand Russian because most of them can speak it so they are different languages. But my point about mutual intelligibility stands for "languages" that are mutually intelligible. Shrug: Sorry, Clovis, I don't know which "experts" has you been reading, but such conclusions are not correct. Ukrainian and Russian are different languages. I'm not sure whom you trust, so even if I put here references to some experts would you read them? So, I'll introduce more simple evidence: – usual and daily words as 'chair', 'lamp', 'bread', 'shoes', 'flower', 'bed', and many others are different, and no real chances Russian get Ukrainian, or Ukrainian get Russian. The same is about abstract ones as 'light', 'color', 'life', 'vehicle', 'method', 'reason', 'cause', 'belief', and so on – are also different. There's no easy success for the self teaching. The answer why more Ukrainians understand Russia is very simple – it is a major influence of USSR (for the oldest), and the influence of media (for the youngest) – there are lots of Russia singers or musicians many of our teenagers know. On the other hand, Russians can barely understand us, because the reversed influence is minor. So, many of those Russians who do not support Putin ask me how to teach Ukrainian, because they show intentions (I mean there's a tendency) to speak with us knowing Ukrainian. By the way, it's not a bit easy for them, many of our words they just cannot pronounce, like the famous (if you're watching news about how ordinary Ukrainians capture the Russian spies or diversion units, you can get it more quickly): "паляниця" ('bread'), "шибениця" ('gallows'), "виїжджати' ('depart'), etc. Not only they cannot pronounce it, but even match correct grammar cases. Again, for Ukrainians, whose language is much older, than Russians, are easy to get Russians, but not vice versa. 75 millions of Ukrainians speak Ukrainian, and you're saying that it is a dialect! This is over of my comprehension.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 1, 2022 12:52:42 GMT
I didn't say that the Russian dialect is older then the Ukrainian one I said they are both dialects of the same language (if they are mutually intelligible) regardless of which came first. And if you can understand Polish, Lithuanian, and Belarussian then they are also the same language. This isn't to discount these people's distinct cultures or national identities but if they can understand one another in their native tongue then they aren't speaking different languages. I hear this is a huge problem in Eastern Europe for instance in the Balkans where two ethnic groups that hate each other that speak with slightly different accents but pretend not to understand one another for BS nationalistic reasons. You can study the structures of languages all you want. I know that linguists argue day and night over what constitutes a dialect and what constitutes a language and cannot agree on any of it and in my opinion they overcomplicate a simple issue. My rule is "if I can't understand it, it's a different language. If I can understand it but it sounds funny its a dialect." At the end of the day, language is a tool of communication, nothing more. If you are communicating with me in an effective manner where I can understand every word you are saying then you are speaking my language. If what you are saying is gobblety gook to me you are not speaking my language. People say, "well someone in Bavaria can't understand someone in Hamburg or vice versa, are they different languages?" And my answer is yes which is not surprising because those two parts of Germany have been independent of one another for over a millennium and "Germany" was invented in 1871. This goes for Italy as well. Most of the linguistic categories especially in Europe tend to be categorized and argued about do to nationalistic reasons and tend be tied up in such kinds of petty baggage. Everyone wants to have a language to legitimize themselves when in practice they really do not in any meaningful sense. I don't care about Russian propaganda or pissing contests between countries, I care about common sense. Anyways looking it up the two languages aren't mutually intelligible as from what I've read Russians can't understand Ukrainian and Ukrainians only understand Russian because most of them can speak it so they are different languages. But my point about mutual intelligibility stands for "languages" that are mutually intelligible. Sorry, Clovis, I don't know which "experts" has you been reading, but such conclusions are not correct. Ukrainian and Russian are different languages. I'm not sure whom you trust, so even if I put here references to some experts would you read them? So, I'll introduce more simple evidence: – usual and daily words as 'chair', 'lamp', 'bread', 'shoes', 'flower', 'bed', and many others are different, and no real chances Russian get Ukrainian, or Ukrainian get Russian. The same is about abstract ones as 'light', 'color', 'life', 'vehicle', 'method', 'reason', 'cause', 'belief', and so on – are also different. There's no easy success for the self teaching. The answer why more Ukrainians understand Russia is very simple – it is a major influence of USSR (for the oldest), and the influence of media (for the youngest) – there are lots of Russia singers or musicians many of our teenagers know. On the other hand, Russians can barely understand us, because the reversed influence is minor. So, many of those Russians who do not support Putin ask me how to teach Ukrainian, because they show intentions (I mean there's a tendency) to speak with us knowing Ukrainian. By the way, it's not a bit easy for them, many of our words they just cannot pronounce, like the famous (if you're watching news about how ordinary Ukrainians capture the Russian spies or diversion units, you can get it more quickly): "паляниця" ('bread'), "шибениця" ('gallows'), "виїжджати' ('depart'), etc. Not only they cannot pronounce it, but even match correct grammar cases. Again, for Ukrainians, whose language is much older, than Russians, are easy to get Russians, but not vice versa. 75 millions of Ukrainians speak Ukrainian, and you're saying that it is a dialect! This is over of my comprehension. Read the last sentence of what you've quoted. It reads, " Anyways looking it up the two languages aren't mutually intelligible as from what I've read Russians can't understand Ukrainian and Ukrainians only understand Russian because most of them can speak it so they are different languages. But my point about mutual intelligibility stands for "languages" that are mutually intelligible."I admitted it was a language after looking it up and finding out that Russian and Ukrainian are not in fact mutually intelligible. That is, it passes my test for being a language. Your post just restated my last sentence in a more elaborate manner.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 1, 2022 14:55:18 GMT
Sorry, Clovis, I don't know which "experts" has you been reading, but such conclusions are not correct. Ukrainian and Russian are different languages. I'm not sure whom you trust, so even if I put here references to some experts would you read them? So, I'll introduce more simple evidence: – usual and daily words as 'chair', 'lamp', 'bread', 'shoes', 'flower', 'bed', and many others are different, and no real chances Russian get Ukrainian, or Ukrainian get Russian. The same is about abstract ones as 'light', 'color', 'life', 'vehicle', 'method', 'reason', 'cause', 'belief', and so on – are also different. There's no easy success for the self teaching. The answer why more Ukrainians understand Russia is very simple – it is a major influence of USSR (for the oldest), and the influence of media (for the youngest) – there are lots of Russia singers or musicians many of our teenagers know. On the other hand, Russians can barely understand us, because the reversed influence is minor. So, many of those Russians who do not support Putin ask me how to teach Ukrainian, because they show intentions (I mean there's a tendency) to speak with us knowing Ukrainian. By the way, it's not a bit easy for them, many of our words they just cannot pronounce, like the famous (if you're watching news about how ordinary Ukrainians capture the Russian spies or diversion units, you can get it more quickly): "паляниця" ('bread'), "шибениця" ('gallows'), "виїжджати' ('depart'), etc. Not only they cannot pronounce it, but even match correct grammar cases. Again, for Ukrainians, whose language is much older, than Russians, are easy to get Russians, but not vice versa. 75 millions of Ukrainians speak Ukrainian, and you're saying that it is a dialect! This is over of my comprehension. Read the last sentence of what you've quoted. It reads, " Anyways looking it up the two languages aren't mutually intelligible as from what I've read Russians can't understand Ukrainian and Ukrainians only understand Russian because most of them can speak it so they are different languages. But my point about mutual intelligibility stands for "languages" that are mutually intelligible."I admitted it was a language after looking it up and finding out that Russian and Ukrainian are not in fact mutually intelligible. That is, it passes my test for being a language. Your post just restated my last sentence in a more elaborate manner. Sorry, Clovis, you're right. I might be really wrong. Honestly speaking, this last month made me feel exhausting. Sometimes it is extremely hard to stay in focus. Many of us living in a permanent mode of waiting on something not really good... Like, recently another school had been attacked... I don't know why those orks are so much a$$hole$ and j@rks, because what they're doing is a pure crime against humanity... Even at night many of us are awaken, because we have to be prepared. That's why even discussing - is something not very easy. Anyway, thank you for the info, and talks!!
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 2, 2022 0:29:53 GMT
Read the last sentence of what you've quoted. It reads, " Anyways looking it up the two languages aren't mutually intelligible as from what I've read Russians can't understand Ukrainian and Ukrainians only understand Russian because most of them can speak it so they are different languages. But my point about mutual intelligibility stands for "languages" that are mutually intelligible."I admitted it was a language after looking it up and finding out that Russian and Ukrainian are not in fact mutually intelligible. That is, it passes my test for being a language. Your post just restated my last sentence in a more elaborate manner. Sorry, Clovis, you're right. I might be really wrong. Honestly speaking, this last month made me feel exhausting. Sometimes it is extremely hard to stay in focus. Many of us living in a permanent mode of waiting on something not really good... Like, recently another school had been attacked... I don't know why those orks are so much a$$hole$ and j@rks, because what they're doing is a pure crime against humanity... Even at night many of us are awaken, because we have to be prepared. That's why even discussing - is something not very easy. Anyway, thank you for the info, and talks!! Ah, it's okay. Figured you just missed the last part so I pointed it out. No offense was taken.
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Post by jonbain on Apr 3, 2022 10:19:30 GMT
Its like trying to decide the difference between the colors yellow and gold?
I know little of the linguistic details of the region, but historically both Moscow and Kiev are viking settlements, from the same era as Dublin. So really all languages and dialects overlap somewhere like this.
In linguistics there is an idea called "speaking in register", which tries to bridge the gap between separate languages and dialects.
Learning French these last couple of years, its clear to me how English and French could be construed as ALMOST different dialects of the same language. I was astonished to find how similar the nouns really are once you make the simple adjustment for accents.
But my main point is how languages are constructed in an objective dynamic sense. Its only been since literacy has become widespread that it is meaningful to even separate various languages in a distinct functional manner.
I am reminded of the tower of Babel.
But its typically been the function of the Royal families to define the rules of various languages out of the chaos of the spoken word. Without a Czar to make such decisions, we are all going to be talking past one another in so many different ways as to be unintelligible to one another.
So really, the WAR going on now in Russia/Ukraine, is still just in so many ways, a consequence of the murder of the Romanovs.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 3, 2022 18:29:16 GMT
Its like trying to decide the difference between the colors yellow and gold? I know little of the linguistic details of the region, but historically both Moscow and Kiev are viking settlements, from the same era as Dublin. So really all languages and dialects overlap somewhere like this. In linguistics there is an idea called "speaking in register", which tries to bridge the gap between separate languages and dialects. Learning French these last couple of years, its clear to me how English and French could be construed as ALMOST different dialects of the same language. I was astonished to find how similar the nouns really are once you make the simple adjustment for accents. But my main point is how languages are constructed in an objective dynamic sense. Its only been since literacy has become widespread that it is meaningful to even separate various languages in a distinct functional manner. I am reminded of the tower of Babel. But its typically been the function of the Royal families to define the rules of various languages out of the chaos of the spoken word. Without a Czar to make such decisions, we are all going to be talking past one another in so many different ways as to be unintelligible to one another. So really, the WAR going on now in Russia/Ukraine, is still just in so many ways, a consequence of the murder of the Romanovs. You are right about French and English. I know some French because I had French classes in school starting from elementary school and yes English and French use many of the same words. This makes learning French much easier. 1066 left its mark on the Anglo-Saxons for sure.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 7, 2022 10:13:33 GMT
Its like trying to decide the difference between the colors yellow and gold? I know little of the linguistic details of the region, but historically both Moscow and Kiev are viking settlements, from the same era as Dublin. So really all languages and dialects overlap somewhere like this. In linguistics there is an idea called "speaking in register", which tries to bridge the gap between separate languages and dialects. Learning French these last couple of years, its clear to me how English and French could be construed as ALMOST different dialects of the same language. I was astonished to find how similar the nouns really are once you make the simple adjustment for accents. But my main point is how languages are constructed in an objective dynamic sense. Its only been since literacy has become widespread that it is meaningful to even separate various languages in a distinct functional manner. I am reminded of the tower of Babel. But its typically been the function of the Royal families to define the rules of various languages out of the chaos of the spoken word. Without a Czar to make such decisions, we are all going to be talking past one another in so many different ways as to be unintelligible to one another. So really, the WAR going on now in Russia/Ukraine, is still just in so many ways, a consequence of the murder of the Romanovs. There's a legend the firsts Kiev territory (not as Kiev yet) were ruled by Viking descendants. But no insurances there. The names were Ascold and Dhier (or Dhyer). But – it is completely impossible for Moscow that firstly appeared in XII-XIII centuries! So, honestly this amused me a little.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 10, 2022 4:40:22 GMT
Bonu tak naduyilu vge. Been more than a month! Like go home to your country fight there with those that wanna fight. Geez.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 10, 2022 18:41:38 GMT
Bonu tak naduyilu vge. Been more than a month! Like go home to your country fight there with those that wanna fight. Geez. Oh, I do believe you would be a really good fighter!! You've got courage and inspiration! But I think you'd better be where you are to keep yourself and other Ukrainians safety. I am looking forward to the day we will win, but now it is important for all the Ukrainians who are out of Ukraine to live good and peacefully!! And I wish all the Ukrainians all over the world to be as you are - really really really super nice, excellently brilliant persons!!! I am proud to be a Ukrainian!!!
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