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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 1, 2021 8:42:16 GMT
Statement 1: The governing is an art Statement 2: From their birth people are skillful to learn and they have abilities to to perform certain occupations Statement 3: Those, who're the most gifted to govern, should be educated this art and after that they should become the rulers Statement 4: Because those rulers are maximally prepared to govern, they have to be granted to the absolute power for their skills can be completely realized.
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Post by jonbain on May 8, 2021 14:59:27 GMT
just make me the grand poobah of all the world and all its problems will soon be solved
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Post by joustos on May 8, 2021 19:52:36 GMT
Statement 1: The governing is an art Statement 2: From their birth people are skillful to learn and they have abilities to to perform certain occupations Statement 3: Those, who're the most gifted to govern, should be educated this art and after that they should become the rulers Statement 4: Because those rulers are maximally prepared to govern, they have to be granted to the absolute power for their skills can be completely realized. I agree with Plato that democracy (mob-government) is a bad form of government since its rulers are not educated in statesmanship and the citizens are likely to be the victims of demagogues. That's why he went further and tried to describe statesmanship as well as the educational program. Anyway, what we should consider first, in any political philosophy, is the aim of (and the reason for having) a GOVERNMENT. // I think it was Plato's experience that democrats want this type of government (democracy) for their personal benefit, to enrich themselves.... or to rule indirectly by buying politicians... A biographical not for those who may not know: Plato , the Athenian philosopher, went to Syracuse in (Greek) Sicily, in order to teach statesmanship to the city-state's tyrant, but when he was defeated, Plato was taken prisoner,,,until he was bought by his former pupil, Aristotle. // Much, much, later, Syracuse was to lose its own great man, Archimedes: A Roman soldier slew him, to the immense regret of the military Commander.
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Triangle
Full Member
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Post by Triangle on May 10, 2021 1:01:08 GMT
You argument is 1. The governing is an art; 2. Some people have skills; 3. Some people must to be educated to command and others to obey; 4. There is a impossibility because the art of govern needs absolute power to be mastered?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 18, 2021 19:49:35 GMT
Statement 1: The governing is an art Statement 2: From their birth people are skillful to learn and they have abilities to to perform certain occupations Statement 3: Those, who're the most gifted to govern, should be educated this art and after that they should become the rulers Statement 4: Because those rulers are maximally prepared to govern, they have to be granted to the absolute power for their skills can be completely realized. I agree with Plato that democracy (mob-government) is a bad form of government since its rulers are not educated in statesmanship and the citizens are likely to be the victims of demagogues. That's why he went further and tried to describe statesmanship as well as the educational program. Anyway, what we should consider first, in any political philosophy, is the aim of (and the reason for having) a GOVERNMENT. // I think it was Plato's experience that democrats want this type of government (democracy) for their personal benefit, to enrich themselves.... or to rule indirectly by buying politicians... A biographical not for those who may not know: Plato , the Athenian philosopher, went to Syracuse in (Greek) Sicily, in order to teach statesmanship to the city-state's tyrant, but when he was defeated, Plato was taken prisoner,,,until he was bought by his former pupil, Aristotle. // Much, much, later, Syracuse was to lose its own great man, Archimedes: A Roman soldier slew him, to the immense regret of the military Commander. Yes, thanks, I knew about that episode. It was a prominent example that, for instance, Mr. Popper had been using to criticize the ancient thinker. I guess that with Socrates's mouth Plato told us about that democratic plague, as it did in his "Criton" (maybe I misspelled, I translate it from Russian) and "(the) Republic". The " Apology's" Socrates, I'd say, is tiny different, than "Phaedo's" or some others. They say (e.g. Russell in his HWP) that the Apology's Socrates is to be the most true image of that keenest mind of those times. And it's probably that Socrates played "a fool", rather he seriously thought something above his "I know that I don't know anything". Anyway, we'd in a great danger if our rulers would become insane jokers one day. And along with it I wouldn't hurry making any conclusions. Humanity doesn't know what is the best to it. Why the self-destruction couldn't be that we had to do? In many aspects of our current politics and the politics of the past year, I'd say that the self-destruction tactics is still here: ecology, greed, wars, the experiments, and many others. I see no real love between people, but rather I admit that the previous conditions are mostly the same; perhaps, some formal changes have occurred, so that's all. If Plato's the most gifted were really them, I would say that it would be possible for those gifted to solve that problem of justice. Halfy gifted are not completely or wholy gifted, so... I guess it's obvious.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 18, 2021 19:54:37 GMT
You argument is 1. The governing is an art; 2. Some people have skills; 3. Some people must to be educated to command and others to obey; 4. There is a impossibility because the art of govern needs absolute power to be mastered? =) No, those arguments aren't mine, but Plato's. Yes, I think your objeciton is bull's eye here. Surely, the rulers have to be as well as the Olympic Gods (or even twice more) to use that art. However, it doesn't mean that that art govern is n e c e s s a r y thing for governing. I mean, it could be that to get people live in peace and harmony (or in justice), it could require just some plain skills and techniques.
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