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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 14, 2021 16:38:05 GMT
Can ideas /if it exists somehow/ exist beyond a language?
This question can be interpreted as:
a) do animals /or non-human species/ have ideas? b) do non-articulated ideas or non-formed ideas are possible to exist?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 21, 2021 12:26:40 GMT
Can ideas /if it exists somehow/ exist beyond a language? This question can be interpreted as: a) do animals /or non-human species/ have ideas? b) do non-articulated ideas or non-formed ideas are possible to exist? 1. Ideas exist through images. 2. Images are symbols. 3. Symbols are language. 4. Ideas are language. A) Animals have ideas. B) Ideas are articulated without verbal language because they exist as symbols. Seems pretty cool. What about the simplest symbols, are there any?
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Apr 28, 2021 0:25:07 GMT
1. Ideas exist through images. 2. Images are symbols. 3. Symbols are language. 4. Ideas are language. A) Animals have ideas. B) Ideas are articulated without verbal language because they exist as symbols. Seems pretty cool. What about the simplest symbols, are there any? The point, line and circle (and the geometric symbols which arise from them) are the simplest symbols.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 28, 2021 3:43:57 GMT
Seems pretty cool. What about the simplest symbols, are there any? The point, line and circle (and the geometric symbols which arise from them) are the simplest symbols. Aristotle chosed there simplest movements: toward a center, backward the center, and round the center. I think what you said is exactly as him said about the movements. I guess Aristotle saw those movements to be the simplest,in your case, these are symbols, I mean you had chosen not processes. What do you think, does it matter? Are symbols processes?
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Apr 28, 2021 17:57:28 GMT
The point, line and circle (and the geometric symbols which arise from them) are the simplest symbols. Aristotle chosed there simplest movements: toward a center, backward the center, and round the center. I think what you said is exactly as him said about the movements. I guess Aristotle saw those movements to be the simplest,in your case, these are symbols, I mean you had chosen not processes. What do you think, does it matter? Are symbols processes? Symbols are embodiments of movement.
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Post by fschmidt on Apr 30, 2021 22:20:47 GMT
Can ideas /if it exists somehow/ exist beyond a language? This question can be interpreted as: a) do animals /or non-human species/ have ideas? b) do non-articulated ideas or non-formed ideas are possible to exist? Ironically the answer to this question depends on the language in which it is asked. If asked in Hebrew, the word for "idea" is "davar" but this "davar" also means "word". So in Hebrew there is no distinction between ideas and words, so the answer to this question in Hebrew is clearly no. English is a verbose language with far too many poorly defined words. So in English the answer depends on exactly how you define "idea".
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on May 1, 2021 2:38:05 GMT
Can ideas /if it exists somehow/ exist beyond a language? This question can be interpreted as: a) do animals /or non-human species/ have ideas? b) do non-articulated ideas or non-formed ideas are possible to exist? Ironically the answer to this question depends on the language in which it is asked. If asked in Hebrew, the word for "idea" is "davar" but this "davar" also means "word". So in Hebrew there is no distinction between ideas and words, so the answer to this question in Hebrew is clearly no. English is a verbose language with far too many poorly defined words. So in English the answer depends on exactly how you define "idea". I can't say I can define this notion. There are some terms as life, science, morality, and so on which, maybe, indefinable or even empty (I don't really know), and at the same time people have been using them since grey and rusty ancient times. I can say I could explain what idea is perfectly. Perhaps, none of definitions couldn't be refused. So, I guess: a) those who understand the term can try to answer; b) I'm not sure there are countless "ideas" of ideas, and that we can't agree on some. And by the way, is there no synonymity in Hebrew? Even using one word for two or more things doesn't mean there are no difference. The "word" is a really good explanation to what the idea is, because I can't remember anything except for statements what may express a thought. If a word is an idea (an image, a part of image, and so on), and a statement is a word or a group of words, then a thought can be expressed with words/statements if we want to share, for instance, those image-in-heads somehow. We could try to draw it or to show it non-verbally, but the most clear way is – to articulate ir or to write. If you wanted to comment using only pictures or smiles, I would barely understand what you intended to say. And not rarely my poor and terrible English barriers my thoughts to be expressed, which, I guess, means that languages can be a powerful tool if to know how to rule it. Also, even language is changing. All tools are things, and things are usually being changed all the time. And anyway, each moment in our life we have to be able to express a thought, and how to do it – is another question. Maybe only complex and intensive life requires thinking? Maybe mostly what I call "thoughts" are just instincts or habits/reflexes? Because thoughts are also different, and if some thought is trapped to the mind doesn't necessary mean this thought is good or it is worth to be there. The last one claim makes me think of "ideas" and "words" as something much more closer as I usually can see them. I think there's not unimportant to include culture to language, or to not exclude culture from language, because pragmatic aspect is hardly unavoidable. Depending on culture the difference in styles of definitions or of how any definitions appear can be more or less wide. For example, maybe the Ancient Greek culture supposed to use some "word-equilibristics" or "hard-times-to-define-words", and that's why we achieved many writings and plays (and also drawings, buildings, etc) with specific questions or themes, or talking styles. To make it tragical or non-tragical might highly depend on habits and life routine.
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