|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 10, 2021 16:39:01 GMT
It was said by Dostoyesky in his "Brothers Karamazov" novel. And I see no reasons to accept those invented complexed-perplexed-twisted-inverted arguments like those from Slavoi Jijek to reject this true thought.
And I do not believe atheista are moral. I guess the atheists are dangerous. If I have a theist neighbour I will not worry about him as well as I will worry if my neighbor is an atheist.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonbain on Mar 18, 2021 18:12:27 GMT
everything is permitted even with God
but there are consequences
in the Deist philosophy God is unconcerned with us
and there are no more consequences than in the atheist ideology
|
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 19, 2021 15:49:02 GMT
everything is permitted even with God but there are consequences in the Deist philosophy God is unconcerned with us and there are no more consequences than in the atheist ideology I'm a theist. I believe God does influence on our current life. Then our prayers are not dull and pointless. Nothing can't prevent God's actions. If He will, He will. By the phase Dostoyevsky wanted to say an atheist don't need to response on a particular action. A theist reacts on what kind of action is it, and therefore a theist's inner will can stop him from doing something bad. An atheist, contrary to it, takes any actions as pointless, because what point can the atheist has unless his worldview has no specific end? Any believers know that one day God will award the obedient and loyal to Him, and will punish the selfish ones and the insolent ones. |
|
|
|
Post by fschmidt on Mar 19, 2021 19:19:25 GMT
It isn't that simple. An atheist may say that violating the laws of physics is not permitted. Atheism has its problems, but this isn't one of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 19, 2021 20:35:37 GMT
It isn't that simple. An atheist may say that violating the laws of physics is not permitted. Atheism has its problems, but this isn't one of them. Everything isn't simple. So, it's just a too plain way to choose a part, then to think at everything. |
|
|
|
Post by jonbain on Mar 30, 2021 12:42:16 GMT
everything is permitted even with God but there are consequences in the Deist philosophy God is unconcerned with us and there are no more consequences than in the atheist ideology I'm a theist. I believe God does influence on our current life. Then our prayers are not dull and pointless. Nothing can't prevent God's actions. If He will, He will. By the phase Dostoyevsky wanted to say an atheist don't need to response on a particular action. A theist reacts on what kind of action is it, and therefore a theist's inner will can stop him from doing something bad. An atheist, contrary to it, takes any actions as pointless, because what point can the atheist has unless his worldview has no specific end? Any believers know that one day God will award the obedient and loyal to Him, and will punish the selfish ones and the insolent ones. Hmmm. Some atheists and Dostoevsky too believe that selfish and insolent people most effectively end up punishing themselves as a matter of conscience thru free will. (I am not sure of Dostoevsky's beliefs, but perhaps he pretends to be agnostic to try teach atheists?) But I see it that God can touch the minds of people to help them see the light. From the perspective of the atheist becoming agnostic, this appears as self-punishment from remorse of awareness. It requires sensitivity and empathy that atheists typically have suppressed. But the decision to be sensitive, to feel others pain, has to be voluntary to be authentic. This is why a strictly Deist and deterministic model fails. The meaning behind having spiritual awareness only attains existence as a reflection of that which is soulless. The atheist shadow is what highlights the light of knowing. |
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on May 9, 2021 19:36:24 GMT
I agree with jonbain. Everything is permitted but there are consequences to each action. So one must choose which actions they want to do. If they choose sin then I pray for their souls.
|
|
|
|
Post by MAYA-EL on Feb 14, 2023 7:29:05 GMT
everything is permitted even with God but there are consequences in the Deist philosophy God is unconcerned with us and there are no more consequences than in the atheist ideology I'm a theist. I believe God does influence on our current life. Then our prayers are not dull and pointless. Nothing can't prevent God's actions. If He will, He will. By the phase Dostoyevsky wanted to say an atheist don't need to response on a particular action. A theist reacts on what kind of action is it, and therefore a theist's inner will can stop him from doing something bad. An atheist, contrary to it, takes any actions as pointless, because what point can the atheist has unless his worldview has no specific end? Any believers know that one day God will award the obedient and loyal to Him, and will punish the selfish ones and the insolent ones. This is the standard straw man that believers use inorder to make non believers look like they have a pointless stupid opinion on life but it is not accurate in the slightest Firstly the above statement is assuming that a Christian god already exists regardless of what the topic is and therefore inorder to be an atheist one has to deny God and strip their world away from this god that holds everything together and just leave the bad parts and try to work with only them And obviously if this were the case then yeah it would be like you said it would but that's not the case and your not looking at both options objectively Secondly your doing what most believers also do which is create some kind of bipolar opposite religion to Christianity like the dark hand side of Christianity called atheism where people have their own Creed and following and although that tends to happen because humans are prone to doing so it is however not what atheist means, originally it only meant that a person doesn't believe there is a god that's it nothing more nothing less it is independent of everything else in their life so then a person cannot conceptualize the nature of a atheist outside of if they believe in a god or not Objectively speaking humans know what's right and what's wrong what's good and what's bad because we learn this from are environment as well as through epigenetics and biological instincts Some of us accredit this to a religion others don't Same goes for meaning to life , some decide to make there own meaning to life and create their own purpose in life while others decide to a credit these things to a god In the end there is no limit except the limit we believe in because belief is the thing creating these differentiations we all have . |
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Feb 16, 2023 7:06:41 GMT
I'm a theist. I believe God does influence on our current life. Then our prayers are not dull and pointless. Nothing can't prevent God's actions. If He will, He will. By the phase Dostoyevsky wanted to say an atheist don't need to response on a particular action. A theist reacts on what kind of action is it, and therefore a theist's inner will can stop him from doing something bad. An atheist, contrary to it, takes any actions as pointless, because what point can the atheist has unless his worldview has no specific end? Any believers know that one day God will award the obedient and loyal to Him, and will punish the selfish ones and the insolent ones. This is the standard straw man that believers use inorder to make non believers look like they have a pointless stupid opinion on life but it is not accurate in the slightest Firstly the above statement is assuming that a Christian god already exists regardless of what the topic is and therefore inorder to be an atheist one has to deny God and strip their world away from this god that holds everything together and just leave the bad parts and try to work with only them And obviously if this were the case then yeah it would be like you said it would but that's not the case and your not looking at both options objectively Secondly your doing what most believers also do which is create some kind of bipolar opposite religion to Christianity like the dark hand side of Christianity called atheism where people have their own Creed and following and although that tends to happen because humans are prone to doing so it is however not what atheist means, originally it only meant that a person doesn't believe there is a god that's it nothing more nothing less it is independent of everything else in their life so then a person cannot conceptualize the nature of a atheist outside of if they believe in a god or not Objectively speaking humans know what's right and what's wrong what's good and what's bad because we learn this from are environment as well as through epigenetics and biological instincts Some of us accredit this to a religion others don't Same goes for meaning to life , some decide to make there own meaning to life and create their own purpose in life while others decide to a credit these things to a god In the end there is no limit except the limit we believe in because belief is the thing creating these differentiations we all have . It was written long ago. Now I would find these thesis not good. But what I have to say that such a principle exists since the greyest times. Even the Egyptian priests wanted their people to do certain work, and to make them do it they were needed in some stories or fairy tales that made people to believe in that. Well, I remember one remarkable scene from a truly comedy movie "The Rat Race" (2001). There a former football referee (jury?) walked from a desert and decided to stole a bus, but he wanted to do it less roughly, so he decided to fiction the story, and by telling a lie to a bus-driver makes him believe in that fiction. So, the football referee began explaining that his wife was childbearing, and urgently some clothes were needed. And to express the bus-driver the referee started to use some blood and gore elements in his story to make that story being more nightmare. Anyway, the bus-driver gave almost all his clothes to the referee. I guess the same technique is being used most of the time to make people to believe. And in this aspect mentioning the gods is a way to make people to wake up. Let's me bring this example: a mother wants her child to eat some food, but rhe the child is refusing it. The mother can say "eat, or wolves will kidnap you". In this case "the wolves" work. For the adults this trick certainly doesn't work. But if to say "get back to your work, or Zeus will be very upset" may hit the ball. Today, unfortunately, people don't believe in anything, and there's no way to fright them for some good purposes. I mean sometimes those tricks I have brought work. And it's not bad if a person has some morality. But again, what morality is? Can it be that morality is nothing? So, if morality is fiction, and the person is moral, then the person believes in fiction. This is wrong, and immortal ones, I suppose, are dangerous. And if person thinks that the morality is not fiction, then why? One of the most obvious answer is that the morality has been given by God. Another thing, if morality is a man-made, then if the person holds to a certain morality, then he holds just a man-made something. But if the morality is man-made, anyone can change it. Non-man-made morality should not be manufactured, it should be given by someone trusty or relies on something trusty. There's anything trusty except for God. At least I don't see anything. |
|
rexa
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Likes: 16
|
Post by rexa on Apr 9, 2023 20:45:32 GMT
Utterly invalid axiom. Not a surprise the most peaceful countries are inhabited by atheist. Not to mention tunnel vision
|
|
|
|
Post by joustos on Apr 9, 2023 22:28:56 GMT
I there is no afterlife, human behavior is ultimately INCONSEQUENTIAL, whether there is a God or not. Humans do not calculate accordingly. Many/some of them act according to their feelings of what they ought or ought not to do, not what is permitted....
|
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 10, 2023 16:56:20 GMT
Utterly invalid axiom. Not a surprise the most peaceful countries are inhabited by atheist. Not to mention tunnel vision Communities of religions are mostly weird at least. Surely, there might be not bad people among them, but can't say their roles are clear. On the other hand, not balanced societies aren't good either. By the way, USSR was atheistic. A hundred years ago they just killed thousands of priests. |
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 10, 2023 16:59:29 GMT
I there is no afterlife, human behavior is ultimately INCONSEQUENTIAL, whether there is a God or not. Humans do not calculate accordingly. Many/some of them act according to their feelings of what they ought or ought not to do, not what is permitted.... True about that 'ought to' or 'feelings' are much more better to rely on, than that 'what is permitted'. I believe there are some other realities. I know I might be wrong, but at least I've got some hope. If I could I got back to 2006-2011 years and lived them over and over again. |
|
Neuron420
Junior Member
Posts: 77
Likes: 37
Ethnicity: Texan
Country: USA
Region: Southern United States
Location: San Antonio
Ancestry: Scots/Irish, Northern Europe, French, Northern Italian
Taxonomy: Southerner
Politics: Progressive
Religion: NONE
Relationship Status: Married
Hero: Isaac Asimov & Albert Einstein
Philosophy: Skeptical Humanist
|
Post by Neuron420 on May 31, 2023 22:25:39 GMT
It saddens me to hear, "If an atheist lived next door to me I would be worried, but not so much if they believe in God". Prisons are full of "believers". I have never killed anyone outside of being in the military. Morals existed way before organized religion. These morals helped create civilizations. I and many other atheists want to leave this world just a little better than it was when we arrived. We do not need to do the right things because we fear a god, we do them because they are the right thing to do. We only believe in one less god than you do.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonbain on Jun 1, 2023 11:27:49 GMT
It saddens me to hear, "If an atheist lived next door to me I would be worried, but not so much if they believe in God". Prisons are full of "believers". I have never killed anyone outside of being in the military. Morals existed way before organized religion. These morals helped create civilizations. I and many other atheists want to leave this world just a little better than it was when we arrived. We do not need to do the right things because we fear a god, we do them because they are the right thing to do. We only believe in one less god than you do.
When you say you want to make the world a better place, how can we trust you are being honest? Even a psychomaniac can say that in order to deceive people that he can be trusted. You use the quotes for "believers", so you know that the same applies to them.
But the problem is one of logic. How did the universe come to exist? If it came from nothing, then you are saying that nothing causes everything. So you then refute all causality as being meaningful.
Because:
To say the universe was caused by a worm makes no sense because a worm is trivial. How can a worm cause a universe?
But nothingness is infinitely more trivial than any worm.
If you say the universe always existed, then you refute basic
observations of an expanding or inflating universe, and thus you refute the basic ideas of modern astronomy.
|
|
