Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Oct 30, 2020 6:39:54 GMT
Do you define the word ethnicity, by culture or by ancestry? I noticed that old worlders tend to do it by culture while settler societies like the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and I think Latin America tend to define it by ancestry. I think that if you were to ask an American what their ethnicity is they would just list off the groups that their ancestors came from and put it as a hyphen before the word American (for example Irish American).
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Post by jonbain on Oct 30, 2020 15:59:10 GMT
its mostly used as a 'pc' term for race, but the closest real meaning should really be a language origin
it could also be used culturally in terms of pre-national tribal origins for a more interesting take on identity and that at core is more like an ethical style
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Post by joustos on Oct 30, 2020 17:55:31 GMT
Do you define the word ethnicity, by culture or by ancestry? I noticed that old worlders tend to do it by culture while settler societies like the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and I think Latin America tend to define it by ancestry. I think that if you were to ask an American what their ethnicity is they would just list off the groups that their ancestors came from and put it as a hyphen before the word American (for example Irish American). It can be defined in either way and perhaps in other ways, because a TRIBE or ETHNIKON is a society of people who live (dwell, do things, make things, ….) on a territory of the Earth. The society is not a mere crowd/bunch of people; it is an INTERACTING assemblage of people, and thus it has many and diverse interactions. For instance: -- They create or use a language (for communicating by voices rather than by gestures). So, if, some reason or other, the peopleof a tribe are called Franks [Free Men], their territory is called France. and their language is said to be French. French, English, Chinese, Greek, Portuguese are ethnic languages. {Incidentally, notice that the Frenchness of a language is not an inherent quality of the language, such as the rhythm and the timbre of a phrase or verse, but a reflected quality from the people of the land. Of course, those people may stop being free, but their name persists and,therefore their present language continues to be called French. -- this is my psycho-logy of a language. // Resuming my For instance: -- They create or use laws/norms of behavior between each other, such as "do not impose on others, do not force them to give up their money; wherefore: Let the other be FREE. (All crimes are impositions.) [I have just exemplified the principle of Roman jurisprudence and adjudication: An act of a free man (such as was a citizen of the Roman Republic/Society) is criminal if it does not respect the freedom of others. The Roman republic was established for the sake of preserving and defending the Freedom of the people, as well as Justice, "Libertas et Justitia". [This very motto or formula in quotation marks was inscribed on the first silver coins that were issued by the American republic! ] // -- They also plow the territory or use it for playgrounds, or for foundations of buildings, etc. So, a tennis court in France can be called French. It is an ethnic tennis court even though the court is structured similarly to the tennis courts in other tribes/nations and the tennis game prescription is identical with the prescription in other tribes. //
In all of the above cases, ethnicity is defined by culture (by the internal interactions, the interrelationships) of the people or citizens of a tribe. However, the people in a country (in an inhabited territory) were either born there [they are natives] or immigrated from another country, So, ethnicity by place of birth is a cultural ethnicity (since a place or a time of birth is not a quality of one's own reality/essence; it is a circumstantial condition). A biological ethnicity is a peculiar format or a racial quality that the citizens of a country have. I am what I am: If I am black, blackness is part of my essence; it is not a temporary or accidental condition of my being. In fact, I cannot eliminate my blackness, and it is inherited, something I am born with [innate, aboriginal], rather than acquired -- like the lameness due to a traffic accident. In conclusion, ethnicity can be defined by culture or by essence (by the sort of thing a reality is).[Ethnicity is the similar essence and communal culture the people of a tribe or community has.] What is an ethnicity defined by ancestry? If the tribesmen have the same essence as their ancestors (remote parents), that means that they have inherited their essence, and that they and their ancestors form one species of humans. (Can a species mutate? That's another story we will not get into right now.)If a tribe's culture (language, law, religion, customs) is (largely) inherited from their ancestors, rather than self-made non-aboriginal), then part of their ethnicity/*tribality is derived/contingent rather than essential.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Oct 30, 2020 18:05:18 GMT
Cultural. It's my personal position. I think many European, not Asians, would agree with it.
Ancestry is important when your ancestry is everything and the most important, so it's more national, as a mission, or kinda. So, the ethnos as a bearer of some important mission to humanity... or some similar weird and unliveable ideas.
I guess many Russian would agree with that American type of definition – by ancestry. Russians are also add pre-names, like Ukrainian-Russian, or BelaRUSsian, etc. Since Russians are conquerors, or they want them to be those, I guess they are racists. And also I guess its racial to think that ethnicity is depend on ancestry. I'd say it's thr core origin of racism.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Oct 30, 2020 18:31:54 GMT
Yeah, I'd agree with the cultural definition. An ethnic group should be defined as a group of people with a common culture. It's the only definition that makes sense as all peoples are a mix of tribes. the French for example being descended from Romans, Gauls, and Franks, the Germans clearly being of different ancestry depending on what part of Germany they hail from, etc. and there are clearly multiracial ethnic groups like Louisiana Creoles, Hispanics, and Jews for that matter. eugene in the United States "ethnicity" is less of an issue than race is. At the sub-national level, we classify people by their appearance mainly and different races of course have different cultures. Blacks have their own culture, whites have a multitude of cultures but don't realize it so just say they are white, Hispanics I guess have many different cultures as well but like the whites are classified as one unified blob basically because they look the same racially, same with Asians, Muslims no matter where they come from in the Middle East, Persia, or North Africa are similarly grouped together because they have a similar skin tone and wear head coverings, and so on. Ancestry and culture are not really as important. Ancestry is basically just something that fascinates us but has little bearing on anything really in society and white Americans at least have a poor understanding of our own cultural origins and little sense of a shared culture.
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lorac
Full Member
Posts: 214
Likes: 141
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Post by lorac on Oct 30, 2020 21:42:03 GMT
Race, Ethnicity, Colour, Ancestory what to use and when? Is there a difference between race and ethnicity? The short answer? Yes, but it is extremely complicated. Use of the words overlap and are very historical and often personal. But very generally speaking, the word race involves shared physical characteristics, especially skin colour, and a shared ancestry or historical experience based on that, whereas ethnicity involves shared cultural or national identity, which may include language, nationality, religion, or other customs. As Jennifer DeVere Brody, Stanford University’s Director of the Centre for Comparative Studies in Race & Ethnicity, powerfully sums up the issue of race vs. ethnicity: “Race is something we believe to be heritable, and ethnicity is something learned; however, this masks the history of how race has been used to create these concepts for political power.” www.dictionary.com/e/race-vs-ethnicity/This site makes clear definitions to differentiate not only the words but also the way these words have changed through History.
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