johnbc
Full Member
Roman Catholic
Posts: 110
Likes: 63
Religion: Catholic
Philosophy: Anarcho-capitalist, Anti-communism
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Post by johnbc on Oct 13, 2020 4:00:39 GMT
The general symbolic analogical schemes that the subject uses to express a reality are one thing and the historical reality is quite another. These mythical characters, if brought together, provide a lot of mythical and symbolic resources to tell the life of Our Lord Jesus Christ, because the language is the same for everyone. There is only one difference, the life of Our Lord Jesus Christ actually happened.
This argument is so stupid. I tell the story, for example, of a great warrior that I met, they then find a lot of analogies with previous mythological warriors, and say that there is nothing new, as it was already in mythology. The difference is not this, the difference is what happened.
Of course, not everything Jesus Christ said was new, and not everything he did was new. The point is, he really did. This is the only difference. We could say that the life of Our Lord Jesus Christ is mythical in scope. And therefore, in this sense it is a myth. Only it is a myth that has historically happened, and this is the real importance. Did all these ancient symbolisms condense in the person of Our Lord Jesus Christ? How could it be otherwise? Absolutely impossible. Hence it would mean nothing. If it did not correspond to any previous mythological archetype, then it would be nothing. The novelty is not in the symbol, it is in the happening.
The same thing, the subject observes a miracle that happened and then says that the same thing happened in a novel he read. Happening in a novel is one thing, actually happening is another. It is clear that the symbols and archetypes are the same and they all condense and articulate in the person of Our Lord Jesus Christ. These symbols were not in vain, they were not nonsense.
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The Cathar
New Member
Modern Cathar
Posts: 40
Likes: 13
Religion: Cathar
Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Nov 6, 2020 0:10:46 GMT
I agree with you, Bruno, that Jesus lived and walked among us all those centuries ago. I'll further agree that his short visit was amazing in so many ways.
But I would also say this: even IF Jesus had not lived, and his story is a complete fabrication, the lessons attributed to him are still very much valid and very valuable. This is what I counter the 'Jesus never lived' argument with- even if that's true, you cannot deny the power and truth of his lessons for living one's life. Even if you are not a religious person, or of a non-Christian faith, his program is STILL very worthwhile.
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 6, 2020 4:13:31 GMT
I agree with you, Bruno, that Jesus lived and walked among us all those centuries ago. I'll further agree that his short visit was amazing in so many ways. But I would also say this: even IF Jesus had not lived, and his story is a complete fabrication, the lessons attributed to him are still very much valid and very valuable. This is what I counter the 'Jesus never lived' argument with- even if that's true, you cannot deny the power and truth of his lessons for living one's life. Even if you are not a religious person, or of a non-Christian faith, his program is STILL very worthwhile. How different do you think things would have been if Jesus never came by?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 6, 2020 6:16:35 GMT
I don't think Jesus is a solar myth. Why? Because what makes me think the solar myth was the first. Who said that? Where's the evidence?
Why not to compare him with Moon, or the other planets or stars?
No comparements (literally) never gets any proof. For instance, I could compare my neighbor to a teapot, because he boils every time getting into quarrel with his wife, and because he looks like a water barrel.
No need to bother about someone's imagination is full of weird images.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 6, 2020 6:18:54 GMT
I agree with you, Bruno, that Jesus lived and walked among us all those centuries ago. I'll further agree that his short visit was amazing in so many ways. But I would also say this: even IF Jesus had not lived, and his story is a complete fabrication, the lessons attributed to him are still very much valid and very valuable. This is what I counter the 'Jesus never lived' argument with- even if that's true, you cannot deny the power and truth of his lessons for living one's life. Even if you are not a religious person, or of a non-Christian faith, his program is STILL very worthwhile. This is – about the importance of Christ's ethics – definitely the truth. Unfortunately Nietzsche's followers, and those who are atheists are trying to disprove it. Why there are such people?
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The Cathar
New Member
Modern Cathar
Posts: 40
Likes: 13
Religion: Cathar
Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Nov 6, 2020 16:47:18 GMT
I agree with you, Bruno, that Jesus lived and walked among us all those centuries ago. I'll further agree that his short visit was amazing in so many ways. But I would also say this: even IF Jesus had not lived, and his story is a complete fabrication, the lessons attributed to him are still very much valid and very valuable. This is what I counter the 'Jesus never lived' argument with- even if that's true, you cannot deny the power and truth of his lessons for living one's life. Even if you are not a religious person, or of a non-Christian faith, his program is STILL very worthwhile. How different do you think things would have been if Jesus never came by? As I noted, even if Jesus were a complete fabrication the lessons attributed to this fictional character would still be valid, so even removing all divine references from his tale we'd still be left with a pretty good 'code of conduct'- even if it was all completely dreamed up by one or more authors. Well, obviously we wouldn't have had Christianity- and depending on one's view of the origins of Islam- perhaps not that faith either. Certainly the history of the Middle East and Europe would have taken a far different course. For spiritual purposes, though, we have similar lessons through Eastern faiths on how to conduct oneself and 'connect with a Higher Power'; given the relative stagnation of Jewish expansion out of the Middle East and the slow but steady westward spread of Eastern peoples it's not hard to imagine that European pagan faiths would have been influenced by Hindu or Buddhist teachings and perhaps survived into modern times, albeit in a different form from what we're familiar with. I imagine we'd still have the Norse gods rubbing elbows with the Greek pantheon and so on. Maybe the Egyptian Kemetic faith would still be in play- there are all sorts of possibilities. When you get down to it, though, while the various religions may practice in wildly different ways, at the core they mostly share the same basic message: behave yourselves. What I wonder more, though, is what happens to Christianity- and Islam, for that matter- if it is one day proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus did not, in fact, exist. The heart of Christianity is ripped out, and so too the heart of Islam- the infallibility of the Qur'an is wiped out. For this reason (and this does admittedly sound a bit 'conspiracy theory-ish') if such evidence is discovered- that Jesus never existed in life- that evidence will be very quickly denounced and suppressed. Can you imagine the social and spiritual chaos the world would see if two of the largest religions were to suddenly be shredded? Given the place Christianity and Islam have in the world, Jesus MUST exist (whether he did or not).
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Post by jonbain on Nov 6, 2020 18:32:14 GMT
Well, Christ's symbolism is not at all solar, its entirely lunar - all the motifs point to water:
walks on water symbol of the fish age of Pisces calms the storms at sea water bleeds from his side on the cross fishers of men loaves and fishes first meal after resurrection: fish his mode is empathic, not warlike his number is 777 which is also what Plato says is on the walls of Atlantis Pisces is ruled by Neptune (number 7 in numerology)
and right after i realized all of this for the first time in 2006, he visited me personally
weird, because at the time i was a pagan who revered Poseidon and even lived in 1 Poseidon crescent Bluewater bay
and yeah I swim in the sea at EVERY possible chance
and it gets even stranger than this, much stranger much much stranger
;-j
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Post by MAYA-EL on Aug 6, 2022 20:24:17 GMT
The general symbolic analogical schemes that the subject uses to express a reality are one thing and the historical reality is quite another. These mythical characters, if brought together, provide a lot of mythical and symbolic resources to tell the life of Our Lord Jesus Christ, because the language is the same for everyone. There is only one difference, the life of Our Lord Jesus Christ actually happened. This argument is so stupid. I tell the story, for example, of a great warrior that I met, they then find a lot of analogies with previous mythological warriors, and say that there is nothing new, as it was already in mythology. The difference is not this, the difference is what happened. Of course, not everything Jesus Christ said was new, and not everything he did was new. The point is, he really did. This is the only difference. We could say that the life of Our Lord Jesus Christ is mythical in scope. And therefore, in this sense it is a myth. Only it is a myth that has historically happened, and this is the real importance. Did all these ancient symbolisms condense in the person of Our Lord Jesus Christ? How could it be otherwise? Absolutely impossible. Hence it would mean nothing. If it did not correspond to any previous mythological archetype, then it would be nothing. The novelty is not in the symbol, it is in the happening. The same thing, the subject observes a miracle that happened and then says that the same thing happened in a novel he read. Happening in a novel is one thing, actually happening is another. It is clear that the symbols and archetypes are the same and they all condense and articulate in the person of Our Lord Jesus Christ. These symbols were not in vain, they were not nonsense. Talk about closing your eyes and circular reason in order to save your beliefs . Sad
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Aug 30, 2022 12:29:31 GMT
Well, Christ's symbolism is not at all solar, its entirely lunar - all the motifs point to water: walks on water symbol of the fish age of Pisces calms the storms at sea water bleeds from his side on the cross fishers of men loaves and fishes first meal after resurrection: fish his mode is empathic, not warlike his number is 777 which is also what Plato says is on the walls of Atlantis Pisces is ruled by Neptune (number 7 in numerology) and right after i realized all of this for the first time in 2006, he visited me personally weird, because at the time i was a pagan who revered Poseidon and even lived in 1 Poseidon crescent Bluewater bay and yeah I swim in the sea at EVERY possible chance and it gets even stranger than this, much stranger much much stranger ;-j Hey, this definitely sounds! They say the first Christians used an anagram: Ίχθύς [JCGSS] [sounds like "Ichtios" 'marine'] To hide a message: Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ [Jesus Christ God Son Savior]. I never thought of that as something close to the water theme, but fishes and so on – this is it. One of theory explains it the great quantity of fishermen the first followers of Christ. And because different marginal sects in Israel worship to marine divinities as Dagon [compare to Dragon] and Hydra.
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