iaminyou
Junior Member
The eternal is yet to come after the temporary has passed.
Posts: 58
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Post by iaminyou on Sept 26, 2020 8:21:35 GMT
Together, the words Jesus and Christ is Jesus Christ.
Why were these two words put together since they have totally different meanings. Christ is a name regarding the eternal MAN. Jesus is a name regarding a temporary human being of a created MAN.
If you want me to explain what Jesus Christ means, then you have to understand what the invisible image of our Creator is.
Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Jesus Christ means the same as these phrases and names found in the Bible; Word of God, Word of the Lord, Son of God, Grace of God, Love of God, Wisdom of God, Voice of God, Voice of the Lord, Spirit of God, Spirit, Lord, God, Holy Spirit, Messiah, Mother, the Woman, Creation, Virgin, Son of God, Heaven, Heavenly Kingdom, Kingdom of God, Christ, Mind of Christ, Mind of God, Kingdom of Christ, Jesus Christ, Ancient of Days, Light of Men, Light of God, the Light, Kingdom of the Spirit, the Rock, the Breath, Breath of Life, Book of Life, and the Tree of Life. There are other's I haven't mentioned in this writing.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
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Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Oct 28, 2020 4:43:50 GMT
We've got an honest to goodness Cathar on the forum! , kill em all and let God sort them out! I kid, welcome to the forum The Cathar.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 28, 2020 4:46:28 GMT
I got to say that out of two Gnostics that I know of you're the best at explaining your belief and not being rude to others if their belief is different from yours. So thank you! And secondly, I feel like I can understand and learn something about your belief since you explain things well. So who or what is Christ in your belief? What connection does Christ have to God? Who are the important people in your belief? In my belief, Christ is the first and most powerful of God's Archangels, who were created for various purposes. Christ, being the first, gets the title 'Son of God', and while there are others- male and female (or the spiritual equivalent)- they do not get such an honorific. (In Gnostic terms, these spirits are called 'Aeons'; I am a bit biased toward Christian terminology and it's easier for others to get the concepts in Christian terms.) To bypass an awful lot of cosmology and theology, Christ made it his business to enter the Material World, our Universe (NOT created by God- but that's a different tale!) and help Man get himself sorted out so he could better reject the works of Satan- the enticements of this wretched world he created more or less by accident- and have a better chance of his indwelling spirit (we all have one) breaking free of this world and returning to God's presence in the Divine Realm. He did so by inhabiting the first infant that was born while he was in the Well of Souls (part of that 'different tale') who just happened to be Jesus- although he might as easily have appeared in the infant Pontius Pilate or baby Mussolini (just think if Christ had appeared closer to our time- or was among us now). When Jesus grew up and had more understanding of things, the spirit of Christ within him made itself known and thus began Jesus/Christ's ministry to Man. When Jesus was executed, Christ's spirit exited his body and returned to the Divine Realm, taking Jesus' essence with him to be made a spirit in its own right- an Angel. When our own spirit achieves this escape our essence is 'taken up' just the same and we are made Angels and dwell in God's Presence. If, on the other hand, we don't put in the work and our spirit is too weak to break free of Satan our essence is stripped from the spirit to wither away and the spirit is returned to the Well of Souls to be placed in another new life for another go at redemption later. As for the 'important persons' in my belief I place God first and foremost, of course, but as for more earthly persons it's Jesus/Christ all the way. As a modern-day Cathar I strive to follow the example set by Christ, primarily given in the Sermon on the Mount. Where I break from mainstream Christianity on this is that I'm not big on 'miracles' and neither am I thrilled with leafing through individual Gospels to find this or that and having to cross-check in the other Gospels to figure out what's what. I do believe that the Gospels are the 'heart and soul' of the New Testament with the rest being not much more than commentary and opinion. As such, I use 'The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth' by Thomas Jefferson (yes, THAT Thomas Jefferson), it being a coherent combination of the Gospels into one narrative minus the 'magic' elements. Combined with a dash of Gnostic cosmology, this provides the 'scriptural' basis for my modern interpretation of the old Cathar faith. While I place Jesus/Christ in the #2 spot, I also recognize that there have been others throughout Man's history who have tried to steer us in better directions and help us get sorted out. I would speculate that they, like Jesus, had a strong spirit inhabiting them and that spirit drove them to go to great lengths to teach us. Zoroaster, Amenhotep, Mani, Buddha, Muhammad, and others closer to our time- Gandhi, perhaps- are all possible candidates. They brought different messages and different methods, but it was all with the same goal: to be closer to God. As such, I do not fault anyone for their faith- I don't know what's in their heart and it's not my place to judge them. As long as they don't go around roughing up other for THEIR faith, I have a 'live and let live' attitude. (As a Cathar, I have a historic grudge against the Church, but that's to be expected. Rome has apologized for their past misdeeds, though, so it's all good.) **This is a VERY quick and dirty attempt to answer your questions, and I hope I haven't muddied the waters any more than necessary or, even worse, bored you with all of this. I am working on an 'Introduction to Catharism' document to present the faith as any other faith does, but it's slow going as there are an awful lot of gaps in the historical record and much of the information we DO have comes from the interrogation transcripts of the Inquisition; there are very few extant original Cathar documents. I'm afraid the result of my work will not be Catharism 'as it was' but rather Catharism 'as I think it should have been'. No, you didn't bore me. This was interesting! I'm finally learning something about the Gnostics. So I do see you read things like the gospels and what Thomas Jefferson wrote and know a lot about what's what in your belief. However, what reading guided you to labeling Jesus as an angel for example?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 28, 2020 4:48:18 GMT
We've got an honest to goodness Cathar on the forum! , kill em all and let God sort them out! I kid, welcome to the forum The Cathar. This person is so cool. I'm finally learning something. Stuff the gnostic greatestiam wouldn't tell me either. It's so cool!
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Clovis Merovingian
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Elder
Posts: 2,673
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Oct 28, 2020 4:51:50 GMT
We've got an honest to goodness Cathar on the forum! , kill em all and let God sort them out! I kid, welcome to the forum The Cathar. This person is so cool. I'm finally learning something. Stuff the gnostic greatestiam wouldn't tell me either. It's so cool! Yeah, but The Cathar seems to be an honest to God believing Gnostic and not some pretentious atheist wannabe like Greatestiam. Greatestiam says he does not believe in anything supernatural. That is atheism and materialism NOT Gnosticism.
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The Cathar
New Member
Modern Cathar
Posts: 40
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Religion: Cathar
Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Oct 28, 2020 15:14:20 GMT
We've got an honest to goodness Cathar on the forum! , kill em all and let God sort them out! I kid, welcome to the forum The Cathar. I'm just trying to make sense of what's left of the faith and put it back together as best I can. I already know the end result isn't going to be 'historical' Catharism, but rather what I think it might have morphed into had it survived a bit longer (and with the benefit of the Nag Hammadi treasure trove of documents and possible reconciliation with the Church). While some of the details are a bit nebulous, I have found sources for the text of the the few vows and ceremonies of the historic Cathars and I do, of course, incorporate those. Like the Church itself, the 'bells and whistles' may be a bit different from the original, but the heart and soul- the core beliefs and practices- of the faith remain. As I'm the only self-professed practicing Cathar I know, it's very much a solo journey into murky waters. (There is one group claiming the Cathar name with an online presence that I regard as nothing more than a New Age Cult of Personality with the Cathar name tacked on for publicity. As I have said elsewhere, I don't judge others for their faith, but I think it's bad juju to use one faith's name and practice something different.)
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,673
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Oct 28, 2020 16:58:06 GMT
We've got an honest to goodness Cathar on the forum! , kill em all and let God sort them out! I kid, welcome to the forum The Cathar. I'm just trying to make sense of what's left of the faith and put it back together as best I can. I already know the end result isn't going to be 'historical' Catharism, but rather what I think it might have morphed into had it survived a bit longer (and with the benefit of the Nag Hammadi treasure trove of documents and possible reconciliation with the Church). While some of the details are a bit nebulous, I have found sources for the text of the the few vows and ceremonies of the historic Cathars and I do, of course, incorporate those. Like the Church itself, the 'bells and whistles' may be a bit different from the original, but the heart and soul- the core beliefs and practices- of the faith remain. As I'm the only self-professed practicing Cathar I know, it's very much a solo journey into murky waters. (There is one group claiming the Cathar name with an online presence that I regard as nothing more than a New Age Cult of Personality with the Cathar name tacked on for publicity. As I have said elsewhere, I don't judge others for their faith, but I think it's bad juju to use one faith's name and practice something different.) So what made you want to resurrect the Cathar religion out of curiosity? Why did you choose Catharism and are you looking to evangelize others as well or is it a personal thing?
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The Cathar
New Member
Modern Cathar
Posts: 40
Likes: 13
Religion: Cathar
Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Oct 28, 2020 17:49:12 GMT
I'm just trying to make sense of what's left of the faith and put it back together as best I can. I already know the end result isn't going to be 'historical' Catharism, but rather what I think it might have morphed into had it survived a bit longer (and with the benefit of the Nag Hammadi treasure trove of documents and possible reconciliation with the Church). While some of the details are a bit nebulous, I have found sources for the text of the the few vows and ceremonies of the historic Cathars and I do, of course, incorporate those. Like the Church itself, the 'bells and whistles' may be a bit different from the original, but the heart and soul- the core beliefs and practices- of the faith remain. As I'm the only self-professed practicing Cathar I know, it's very much a solo journey into murky waters. (There is one group claiming the Cathar name with an online presence that I regard as nothing more than a New Age Cult of Personality with the Cathar name tacked on for publicity. As I have said elsewhere, I don't judge others for their faith, but I think it's bad juju to use one faith's name and practice something different.) So what made you want to resurrect the Cathar religion out of curiosity? Why did you choose Catharism and are you looking to evangelize others as well or is it a personal thing? I, like others in the past, was trying to make sense of the problem of the way God is presented in the OT as opposed to the NT. Before I even hit upon Gnostic teachings, it occurred to me that it was two very different entities being described. In my search for any similar conclusions I landed smack in the middle of Gnostic tradition, as well as Manichaean Dualism, and these threads led me to the Cathars of Medieval Europe. As a history buff, I had already known about them from the Albigensian Crusade, but after looking into them from a religious perspective it started to make sense, wrapping up a lot of problems with the Church (as I saw it) into a relatively neat (if historically incomplete) package. I consider myself a Christian (Cathars traditionally called themselves 'The Good Christians') but I could not, in good faith, practice within the Church itself as I'd definitely be considered a heretic. As such, I- like the Cathars of old- have to operate in a similar, parallel Christian faith under the umbrella of the 'Early Church' with historic Gnostic influences. (This is not to say there aren't Cathar-ish lines of thought within the Church itself, though. In fact, the Dominican Order was founded by one Dominic Guzman, a Spanish monk sent to France to try and bring the Cathars in line and for the most part failed. He did see the strength of Cathar practice, and modeled the Rule of his Order after those he sought to destroy. This also provided the blueprint for other monastic orders, which were- aside from fire and sword- the Church's best answer to Catharism. Also, there's the matter of the Eucharist: Cathars did not at all believe in transubstantiation, and regarded the Church's use of the Eucharist as completely wrong. To Cathars it was intended to be a simple meal- bread and wine- in remembrance of Christ, and to them was never intended to be the LITERAL body and blood of Christ. I don't have a link to it, but I recently happened upon an article in a Catholic publication that lamented that only about 30% of Catholics still believe the Eucharist is the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ. The ghost of Catharism strikes back!) I do not seek to evangelize others; my entire purpose is to reconstruct, as best I can, the faith as it can be practiced in modern times for my own purposes. It is a goal, though, to get all of this sorted out and be able to present Catharism as a complete- if decidedly not mainstream- sect of Christianity. I am more than happy to discuss my views and beliefs on the faith with others- it's not exactly a well known topic of conversation- and if someone else wants to have a go at it, I'm ready to give them all the help and advice I can provide. I do not in any way claim to be a bona fide scholar on the subject, but I have gleaned quite a bit of information in my attempt to put it all back together. Neither do I make the claim that it's the ONLY way to 'git up to Heaven'; it's just one of many paths one might take.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,673
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Oct 28, 2020 18:27:33 GMT
So what made you want to resurrect the Cathar religion out of curiosity? Why did you choose Catharism and are you looking to evangelize others as well or is it a personal thing? I, like others in the past, was trying to make sense of the problem of the way God is presented in the OT as opposed to the NT. Before I even hit upon Gnostic teachings, it occurred to me that it was two very different entities being described. In my search for any similar conclusions I landed smack in the middle of Gnostic tradition, as well as Manichaean Dualism, and these threads led me to the Cathars of Medieval Europe. As a history buff, I had already known about them from the Albigensian Crusade, but after looking into them from a religious perspective it started to make sense, wrapping up a lot of problems with the Church (as I saw it) into a relatively neat (if historically incomplete) package. I consider myself a Christian (Cathars traditionally called themselves 'The Good Christians') but I could not, in good faith, practice within the Church itself as I'd definitely be considered a heretic. As such, I- like the Cathars of old- have to operate in a similar, parallel Christian faith under the umbrella of the 'Early Church' with historic Gnostic influences. (This is not to say there aren't Cathar-ish lines of thought within the Church itself, though. In fact, the Dominican Order was founded by one Dominic Guzman, a Spanish monk sent to France to try and bring the Cathars in line and for the most part failed. He did see the strength of Cathar practice, and modeled the Rule of his Order after those he sought to destroy. This also provided the blueprint for other monastic orders, which were- aside from fire and sword- the Church's best answer to Catharism. Also, there's the matter of the Eucharist: Cathars did not at all believe in transubstantiation, and regarded the Church's use of the Eucharist as completely wrong. To Cathars it was intended to be a simple meal- bread and wine- in remembrance of Christ, and to them was never intended to be the LITERAL body and blood of Christ. I don't have a link to it, but I recently happened upon an article in a Catholic publication that lamented that only about 30% of Catholics still believe the Eucharist is the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ. The ghost of Catharism strikes back!) I do not seek to evangelize others; my entire purpose is to reconstruct, as best I can, the faith as it can be practiced in modern times for my own purposes. It is a goal, though, to get all of this sorted out and be able to present Catharism as a complete- if decidedly not mainstream- sect of Christianity. I am more than happy to discuss my views and beliefs on the faith with others- it's not exactly a well known topic of conversation- and if someone else wants to have a go at it, I'm ready to give them all the help and advice I can provide. I do not in any way claim to be a bona fide scholar on the subject, but I have gleaned quite a bit of information in my attempt to put it all back together. Neither do I make the claim that it's the ONLY way to 'git up to Heaven'; it's just one of many paths one might take. So you started out Catholic. Are you from a majority Catholic country?
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The Cathar
New Member
Modern Cathar
Posts: 40
Likes: 13
Religion: Cathar
Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Oct 28, 2020 18:47:39 GMT
I, like others in the past, was trying to make sense of the problem of the way God is presented in the OT as opposed to the NT. Before I even hit upon Gnostic teachings, it occurred to me that it was two very different entities being described. In my search for any similar conclusions I landed smack in the middle of Gnostic tradition, as well as Manichaean Dualism, and these threads led me to the Cathars of Medieval Europe. As a history buff, I had already known about them from the Albigensian Crusade, but after looking into them from a religious perspective it started to make sense, wrapping up a lot of problems with the Church (as I saw it) into a relatively neat (if historically incomplete) package. I consider myself a Christian (Cathars traditionally called themselves 'The Good Christians') but I could not, in good faith, practice within the Church itself as I'd definitely be considered a heretic. As such, I- like the Cathars of old- have to operate in a similar, parallel Christian faith under the umbrella of the 'Early Church' with historic Gnostic influences. (This is not to say there aren't Cathar-ish lines of thought within the Church itself, though. In fact, the Dominican Order was founded by one Dominic Guzman, a Spanish monk sent to France to try and bring the Cathars in line and for the most part failed. He did see the strength of Cathar practice, and modeled the Rule of his Order after those he sought to destroy. This also provided the blueprint for other monastic orders, which were- aside from fire and sword- the Church's best answer to Catharism. Also, there's the matter of the Eucharist: Cathars did not at all believe in transubstantiation, and regarded the Church's use of the Eucharist as completely wrong. To Cathars it was intended to be a simple meal- bread and wine- in remembrance of Christ, and to them was never intended to be the LITERAL body and blood of Christ. I don't have a link to it, but I recently happened upon an article in a Catholic publication that lamented that only about 30% of Catholics still believe the Eucharist is the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ. The ghost of Catharism strikes back!) I do not seek to evangelize others; my entire purpose is to reconstruct, as best I can, the faith as it can be practiced in modern times for my own purposes. It is a goal, though, to get all of this sorted out and be able to present Catharism as a complete- if decidedly not mainstream- sect of Christianity. I am more than happy to discuss my views and beliefs on the faith with others- it's not exactly a well known topic of conversation- and if someone else wants to have a go at it, I'm ready to give them all the help and advice I can provide. I do not in any way claim to be a bona fide scholar on the subject, but I have gleaned quite a bit of information in my attempt to put it all back together. Neither do I make the claim that it's the ONLY way to 'git up to Heaven'; it's just one of many paths one might take. So you started out Catholic. Are you from a majority Catholic country? I'm from the US, the Deep South. To be honest, I've been all over the religious map. I was born into a Southern Baptist family, then when my mother remarried it was into a staunch Methodist family. I was a Methodist until I went to the military, and after seeing the world with my own eyes I really lost a LOT of faith- how could God let people live like that? A bit over a decade later when I was out of uniform, I decided to join the Catholic Church in an attempt to 'get back to basics'- but all the while I had questions in the back of my mind: is this REALLY the way things happened? Is the Bible REALLY 100% accurate? These and other questions had plagued me for years regarding religion in general. In time- a few years- I became a classic 'lapsed Catholic' and began looking for answers elsewhere. Eventually I was left with my views falling squarely between Judaism and Islam, and I decided- in retrospect, probably more out of curiosity- to go with Islam. I was Muslim for about six years, and in that time I learned an awful lot about that faith that most don't see or care to see. However, I also came to be a minority in my practice- as a Qur'anist (more or less rejecting the hadiths of Muhammad and using the Qur'an only as a source of law and teaching)- and this set me outside the majority Sunni community. In time, I began to see the Bigger Picture- that there were other ways other than the Big Three Religions- and studied pagan cultures, the mystics, Eastern philosophies and so on. I eventually returned home to Christianity and in finding my place within the faith I have landed in the Cathar camp. (And yes, there does seem to be a pattern in all of this- even when faced with a huge, already-worked-out faith I seem to gravitate toward the fringes- I don't know if it's a fault in my faith or a strength that I forge new roads when it would be so much easier to 'stay on the reservation'.) As I have been personally involved in all of these different mindsets and religious paths, I don't particularly condemn any of them as being 'wrong' or 'evil' or some such judgement. They might fight among themselves, but as far as I'm concerned they're just looking for the same thing I'm looking for- God- and taking different roads to get there. As long as the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't telling you to kill me, I'm happy to share the road with you.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Oct 28, 2020 18:56:37 GMT
You have some problems with the God from Old Testament?
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The Cathar
New Member
Modern Cathar
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Religion: Cathar
Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Oct 28, 2020 19:01:32 GMT
You have some problems with the God from New Testament? Me? No, I have absolutely NO problem with God, period. I think he is represented in the New Testament, but the 'God' of the Old Testament is- in my view- not the same being as that shown in the NT. (I saw the edit to your post, but it does not change my reply.)
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Post by Διαμονδ on Oct 28, 2020 19:08:48 GMT
What is your evidence that God from OT not good?
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,673
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Oct 28, 2020 19:16:35 GMT
So you started out Catholic. Are you from a majority Catholic country? I'm from the US, the Deep South. To be honest, I've been all over the religious map. I was born into a Southern Baptist family, then when my mother remarried it was into a staunch Methodist family. I was a Methodist until I went to the military, and after seeing the world with my own eyes I really lost a LOT of faith- how could God let people live like that? A bit over a decade later when I was out of uniform, I decided to join the Catholic Church in an attempt to 'get back to basics'- but all the while I had questions in the back of my mind: is this REALLY the way things happened? Is the Bible REALLY 100% accurate? These and other questions had plagued me for years regarding religion in general. In time- a few years- I became a classic 'lapsed Catholic' and began looking for answers elsewhere. Eventually I was left with my views falling squarely between Judaism and Islam, and I decided- in retrospect, probably more out of curiosity- to go with Islam. I was Muslim for about six years, and in that time I learned an awful lot about that faith that most don't see or care to see. However, I also came to be a minority in my practice- as a Qur'anist (more or less rejecting the hadiths of Muhammad and using the Qur'an only as a source of law and teaching)- and this set me outside the majority Sunni community. In time, I began to see the Bigger Picture- that there were other ways other than the Big Three Religions- and studied pagan cultures, the mystics, Eastern philosophies and so on. I eventually returned home to Christianity and in finding my place within the faith I have landed in the Cathar camp. (And yes, there does seem to be a pattern in all of this- even when faced with a huge, already-worked-out faith I seem to gravitate toward the fringes- I don't know if it's a fault in my faith or a strength that I forge new roads when it would be so much easier to 'stay on the reservation'.) As I have been personally involved in all of these different mindsets and religious paths, I don't particularly condemn any of them as being 'wrong' or 'evil' or some such judgement. They might fight among themselves, but as far as I'm concerned they're just looking for the same thing I'm looking for- God- and taking different roads to get there. As long as the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't telling you to kill me, I'm happy to share the road with you. Oh yeah, I am not asking these questions out of any sort of opposition. I am just curious. Anyways I am a staunch protestant Christian because the God of the Bible has spoken to me clear as day twice in my life and many other times as well (these two moments left the biggest impact upon me though). Things that don't exist do not speak to people so here I am.
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The Cathar
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Post by The Cathar on Oct 28, 2020 19:23:24 GMT
I'm from the US, the Deep South. To be honest, I've been all over the religious map. I was born into a Southern Baptist family, then when my mother remarried it was into a staunch Methodist family. I was a Methodist until I went to the military, and after seeing the world with my own eyes I really lost a LOT of faith- how could God let people live like that? A bit over a decade later when I was out of uniform, I decided to join the Catholic Church in an attempt to 'get back to basics'- but all the while I had questions in the back of my mind: is this REALLY the way things happened? Is the Bible REALLY 100% accurate? These and other questions had plagued me for years regarding religion in general. In time- a few years- I became a classic 'lapsed Catholic' and began looking for answers elsewhere. Eventually I was left with my views falling squarely between Judaism and Islam, and I decided- in retrospect, probably more out of curiosity- to go with Islam. I was Muslim for about six years, and in that time I learned an awful lot about that faith that most don't see or care to see. However, I also came to be a minority in my practice- as a Qur'anist (more or less rejecting the hadiths of Muhammad and using the Qur'an only as a source of law and teaching)- and this set me outside the majority Sunni community. In time, I began to see the Bigger Picture- that there were other ways other than the Big Three Religions- and studied pagan cultures, the mystics, Eastern philosophies and so on. I eventually returned home to Christianity and in finding my place within the faith I have landed in the Cathar camp. (And yes, there does seem to be a pattern in all of this- even when faced with a huge, already-worked-out faith I seem to gravitate toward the fringes- I don't know if it's a fault in my faith or a strength that I forge new roads when it would be so much easier to 'stay on the reservation'.) As I have been personally involved in all of these different mindsets and religious paths, I don't particularly condemn any of them as being 'wrong' or 'evil' or some such judgement. They might fight among themselves, but as far as I'm concerned they're just looking for the same thing I'm looking for- God- and taking different roads to get there. As long as the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't telling you to kill me, I'm happy to share the road with you. Oh yeah, I am not asking these questions out of any sort of opposition. I am just curious. Anyways I am a staunch protestant Christian because the God of the Bible has spoken to me clear as day twice in my life and many other times as well (these two moments left the biggest impact upon me though). Things that don't exist do not speak to people so here I am. And I support you 100% in your faith, CM, and pray it leads you to God without too many obstacles in your path. I didn't think you were being argumentative at all, by the way- the best way to get an answer is to ask the question! I am always interested in the thoughts and beliefs of others; it's a very good practice to know what others think and why, even if it's not something you would believe yourself.
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The Cathar
New Member
Modern Cathar
Posts: 40
Likes: 13
Religion: Cathar
Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Oct 28, 2020 20:02:21 GMT
What is your evidence that God from OT not good? In my view, the genocides and destruction of cities and afflictions visited upon Man are evidence enough. His general attitude of 'worship me or you will be destroyed' is pretty revealing. This does not in any way agree with the gentle, almost benign God of the New Testament. The two Testaments simply don't agree with one another on the nature of God, and I do not believe they are talking about the same 'God'. I believe the OT is describing an impostor, a twisted being claiming to be God. There is an important Cathar document, one of the few directly attributed to Cathar authorship, titled 'The Book of Two Principles' that tackles the question of good and evil and supports the case for two opposing deities, one good and one evil. Also, one might do well to study the Dualist principles explored in Manichaean theology- he supported the cases for two equal and opposing forces with Radical Dualism, as well as a greater and lesser force with Mitigated Dualism. (My interpretation of Catharism falls into the Mitigated Dualist camp.) But it is neither my intent nor my desire to be drawn into a debate on this; such 'discussions' rarely produce anything of substance and largely serve only to fracture communities and break what might otherwise become friendships even if both disagree. It is my hope that while my views differ from those of others here, we can all get along- as I have noted in other posts, we're all working toward the same destination but on different roads.
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