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Post by joustos on Aug 25, 2020 18:38:08 GMT
Many years ago I made a study of the Gospels, which I considered to be biographies of a man, Jesus, also called Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the Christ, and otherwise. In the Gospels we find that he was crucified and that the cross bore inscriptions in three languages (Hebrew, Greek, and Latin: Jesus Nazarenus Rex Judeorum, that is, Jesus of Nazareth [in Galilee] King of the Judeans [in Judeah]). This took me to the geography and history of the land which the Romans called Palestina, probably after an ancient name, Philistinia, inhabited by a Greek-speaking people before the occupations by Semitic-speaking Desert People [Arabs]. In historic times, the Galileans or "Israelites" spoke Aramaic, whereas the Jewdeans spoke Hebrew. The Bible (Old Testament) was composed in Judeah, but some parts, such as Genesis-1, were in Aramaic (which is the language of Jesus Nazarene and is quoted once in Gospels). When on the cross, he said, "Eli,Eli,...": O God, O God, why have you forsaken me? Of course, the God in Genesis-1 is El or, more exactly, the Elohim, the Canaanite Supreme Gods who created man in their own image: a male and a female. In Judeah the God was the Indo-European Yah [Yahweh], who produced man, Adam, out of clay and Eve out of a rib of Adam's.
Probably Jesus was called king of the Judeans since he was crucified in Jerusalem (in Judeah), but there may be a deeper reason: He or some follower of his claimed that he was the legitimate king of Jerusalem, as he was the son of Joseph, in the bloodline of David, king of Jerusalem. The myth that he was royal in nature is proven by t legend that three eastern kings went to pay homage to the newborn king, where a star guided them (in Bethlem). The legend was amplified: When Herod, the king of Judeah, learned about this and felt threatened, he ordered the massacre of all newborns. By the way, according to calculations, Herod died in 4 B.C.! According to other calculations, etc., Jesus was born around 6 A.D.!
So, there is a biography of Jesus the King. There is also a biography of Jesus the Christ (the Messiah), where the father of Jesus is not Joseph, but God. As a Messiah he preached the imminent end of the world (within one generation) and what the people must do in order to be saved from hell and reach the Kingdom of God; he performed miracles; and he forgave sins -- which was blasphemy to the High Priest, who incited people to get Jesus tried and killed. However, the cross did not identify him as Jesus of Nazareth, the messiah (or the redeemer) of the Israelites (or of the Judeans). Is Jesus also something else? As the messiah (partly divine), he exorcised devils and, as Bertrand Russel mused, he sent pigs to their death who were possessed by devils: pigs in the land of people who did not eat pork??
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Post by Διαμονδ on Aug 25, 2020 19:47:29 GMT
Yeshua Nozri, Jesus from Nazareth Him is God. Creator this world.
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 25, 2020 20:51:29 GMT
Jesus Himself tested all those "smart" religious people about who He really is.
Here's a good story to start of with.
Matthew 22 41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”
They said to Him, “The Son of David.”
Apparently they were wrong. They no longer seem so smart. So Jesus had to call them out. How can someone who David prayed to since he was a child himself be his own son from the future? That's because Jesus can't be his son! So Jesus needed them to realize that. Same with Mary. She prayed to Jesus all her life....so how can He really be her son? It's like me praying to my child who may or may not exist in the future which one can't ever pray to anything unless it already exists to be acknowledged first as something to be prayed to.
43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?”
Exactly. Jesus cannot be the son of David in human terms if David used to pray to Jesus long before Jesus came in a human form. Obviously when these people realized this they no longer knew how Jesus could be David's son.
46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.
More to come. But it's been established that David prayed to Jesus during old Testament time so Jesus existed then also and recalls David praying to Him so long ago....
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 25, 2020 22:13:43 GMT
But there was a man who's sole duty was to be born to proclaim who Jesus is and why He came to us. This man knew what those "smart" religious people mentioned in the earlier post didn't know. And God chose John to make the presentation of who Jesus is.
Here's how the events of this went.
John 1 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
So, God sent John to us so John can tell us about this Light (Jesus) so we can believe something. Obviously, we are to believe something very important....
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
So, John isn't this Light (Jesus) but is only sent to us to tell us about this Light (Jesus).
9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
Whoa. Did you see that? This Light (Jesus) was IN the world and the world was MADE through this Light (Jesus). So...how old is Jesus? Older than the world that's for sure.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”
So, John said that this being (Jesus) comes after him. If all remember Jesus was "born" after John and John was considered to be Jesus' older cousin/relative. But wait...what's that underlined part? Well, John knew what those "smart" religious people didn't know. Jesus existed before he did. John is not older than Jesus in reality. He can't really ever be Jesus' older anything...ever.
So, who is this Jesus who was here before the world began and who made the world?
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 25, 2020 22:48:55 GMT
In the Old Testament someone also spoke of coming by and if sending a messenger to prepare the coming. Hmm...who is coming and who is this messenger? Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me[/b]: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. (Whoa...God said He was coming to us and will send a messenger (John) first who would tell us about His (Jesus') coming.) John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.So, in the very beginning something referred to as the Word existed and it existed with God. And this Word was God. So part of God and God at the same time! And nothing was made without the Word/God. Whoa... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.Then the Word/God became flesh (human) to be with humans even though he wasn't really human. Well, we know the rest. The messenger John proclaimed Jesus' coming to us. And Malachi prophecy has been fulfilled. John 1 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’Think that's it, joustos.
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Post by joustos on Aug 26, 2020 15:55:59 GMT
Jesus Himself tested all those "smart" religious people about who He really is. Here's a good story to start of with. Matthew 22 41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”
They said to Him, “The Son of David.”Apparently they were wrong. They no longer seem so smart. So Jesus had to call them out. How can someone who David prayed to since he was a child himself be his own son from the future? That's because Jesus can't be his son! So Jesus needed them to realize that. Same with Mary. She prayed to Jesus all her life....so how can He really be her son? It's like me praying to my child who may or may not exist in the future which one can't ever pray to anything unless it already exists to be acknowledged first as something to be prayed to. 43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” Exactly. Jesus cannot be the son of David in human terms if David used to pray to Jesus long before Jesus came in a human form. Obviously when these people realized this they no longer knew how Jesus could be David's son. 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.More to come. But it's been established that David prayed to Jesus during old Testament time so Jesus existed then also and recalls David praying to Him so long ago.... Elizabeth, I appreciate your posts; however, they do not refute my brief (incomplete) exigesis of the Gospels. You make additions (such as Jesus being the Light) which can be incorporated in the two scriptural personalities of Jesus -- his being a king and the son of God. // The expression "son of David" is according to the Biblical Hebrew language and simply means "descendent of David". In fact, Mathew's genealogy of Jesus has this form: Jesus is the son of Joseph, who is the son of …, who [ in a long lineage or bloodline] is the son of David. Now a detail you mention puzzles me: Who said that David prayed to Jesus? Probably a theologian who thought, "Jesus is God. David prayed to God. Therefore David prayed to Jesus." This argument is fallacious, since Jesus as the son of God and the human Mary can be said to be divine only partially [ secundum quid], not entirely [ simpliciter]. However, because of claims that he existed before the world, before Abraham, etc., Christian theologians posited that God has multiple persons, and that the Son Person was injected in Mary, wherefore the historic Jesus was both divine and human. His divinity was questioned by the devil: "If you are really the son of God, …." Yet the Gospels mention various miracles of his, even though (as Jesus complained to one of his brothers), people did not believe that he performed them. Thereupon his brother advised him to go to Jerusalem and show what he could do. He did not and (elsewhere) demanded faith in him, not evidence from him. (From these details, years ago I also inferred that part of Jesus' preachings was an imaginary autobiography -- that he had performed miracles in various parts of Palestine. The Gospels also record the fact that in those days here was a travelling magician by the name of Jesus who performed miracles. Was he the man from Nazareth or a third Jesus?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Aug 26, 2020 20:16:45 GMT
joustos Don't you wanna say there are some late* interpolations in Bible? * - I don't really know about the period it could happened. I can assume the interpolations had been added later.
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Post by joustos on Aug 26, 2020 20:47:14 GMT
Elizabeth, in connectiom with before/after people, I am reminded of an invocation to Our Lady in Dante's Divine Comedy: VERGINE MADRE FIGLIA DI TUO FIGLIO,... = O Virgin Mother, daughter of your son, ….. Some call this a paradox. Strictly speaking, here there are two paradoxes. Thank you; I have a sense of humour.
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 29, 2020 8:12:40 GMT
Jesus Himself tested all those "smart" religious people about who He really is. Here's a good story to start of with. Matthew 22 41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”
They said to Him, “The Son of David.”Apparently they were wrong. They no longer seem so smart. So Jesus had to call them out. How can someone who David prayed to since he was a child himself be his own son from the future? That's because Jesus can't be his son! So Jesus needed them to realize that. Same with Mary. She prayed to Jesus all her life....so how can He really be her son? It's like me praying to my child who may or may not exist in the future which one can't ever pray to anything unless it already exists to be acknowledged first as something to be prayed to. 43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” Exactly. Jesus cannot be the son of David in human terms if David used to pray to Jesus long before Jesus came in a human form. Obviously when these people realized this they no longer knew how Jesus could be David's son. 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.More to come. But it's been established that David prayed to Jesus during old Testament time so Jesus existed then also and recalls David praying to Him so long ago.... Elizabeth, I appreciate your posts; however, they do not refute my brief (incomplete) exigesis of the Gospels. You make additions (such as Jesus being the Light) which can be incorporated in the two scriptural personalities of Jesus -- his being a king and the son of God. // The expression "son of David" is according to the Biblical Hebrew language and simply means "descendent of David". In fact, Mathew's genealogy of Jesus has this form: Jesus is the son of Joseph, who is the son of …, who [ in a long lineage or bloodline] is the son of David. Now a detail you mention puzzles me: Who said that David prayed to Jesus? Probably a theologian who thought, "Jesus is God. David prayed to God. Therefore David prayed to Jesus." This argument is fallacious, since Jesus as the son of God and the human Mary can be said to be divine only partially [ secundum quid], not entirely [ simpliciter]. However, because of claims that he existed before the world, before Abraham, etc., Christian theologians posited that God has multiple persons, and that the Son Person was injected in Mary, wherefore the historic Jesus was both divine and human. His divinity was questioned by the devil: "If you are really the son of God, …." Yet the Gospels mention various miracles of his, even though (as Jesus complained to one of his brothers), people did not believe that he performed them. Thereupon his brother advised him to go to Jerusalem and show what he could do. He did not and (elsewhere) demanded faith in him, not evidence from him. (From these details, years ago I also inferred that part of Jesus' preachings was an imaginary autobiography -- that he had performed miracles in various parts of Palestine. The Gospels also record the fact that in those days here was a travelling magician by the name of Jesus who performed miracles. Was he the man from Nazareth or a third Jesus? The Gospels? Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John only proclaim Him to be God or God the Son part of God. Not a magician. Magicians are not comsidered Christian in the bible anyway so that would be against everything Jesus is. Anyway and there's just one Jesus. Sure, others may share His name. It's quite a comman name among Mexicans for example but the bible adds emphasis on one certain Jesus. The one that as I mentioned in a post earlier in the book of John that came from heaven to earth. John also says He was God and a part of God as the verses stated in my second post. Because God has 3 parts. Father, Spirit, and Son. But it's one God. Bible mentions this Trinity calling it the Godhead. I can show verse if needed. But yeah Jesus the God the Son took on a human form just for His mission to Earth. He isn't a human now and is in His normal form. God's normal form is a Spirit which bible makes loud and clear. John 4:24 24 God is a Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” It also mentions in the bible that we never saw God's form or we'd die. That's why Jesus came in a human disguise. I do plays so I can relate. I've dressed up as angels, ancient people, etc. So I can relate being something different for a bit by taking a new role. But that role isn't me. The human form isn't God. Humans don't even have 3 parts of Father, Spirit, and Son. That Godhead body is limited to just God as bible says. And no I didn't mean that David's child was Jesus because Jesus was in New Testament not old so wouldn't be possible. I meant that Jesus is older than David just as He claimed to be and He's older than John just as John claimed it. And as John said the reason is because He was God and existed before the world did. Jesus created David, He created Mary, and He made everything just as it says in the bible.
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