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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 22, 2020 22:42:21 GMT
I would assume no because believing in a miracle would mean something of a higher power took place. But they can't be certain of things so they wouldn't push things towards a miracle. Am I correct here?
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Apr 26, 2020 23:45:25 GMT
A miracle requires the supernatural to exist. One can believe in the supernatural without believing in God so I think that the answer is yes but I'm not an agnostic so I won't speak for them.
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Post by AmericanCharm on Apr 27, 2020 0:20:25 GMT
Personally, I don’t think I do. But while I don’t believe in a specific higher power I don’t discount the possibility of a higher power either. So if there happens to be a higher power I wouldn’t discount the possibility of supernatural forces and/or miracles.
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Post by fschmidt on Apr 27, 2020 2:49:36 GMT
A miracle is a very improbable event, so miracles are possible, just very unlikely. Note that according to quantum mechanics, everything is probabilistic, and therefore essentially everything is possible.
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azimovclegane87
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Post by azimovclegane87 on Apr 27, 2020 5:15:32 GMT
If you mean religious miracles - yes, but agnostic in question must also be a believer (here mostly two groups of agnostics: agnostics believing in God, but unable to prove it in any way (including symbolical data and personal visions) - and agnostics who do not believe in God, but unable to prove it WITH people who do not have strong opinion on God and supernatural). I'm an agnostic and also believer, so if you ask me - yes, i certainly believe in miracles - i do not know correct source of such miracles, throught, but it does not matter by much (as human my perception of anything supernatural is impaired, probably for good).
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2020 5:25:54 GMT
If you mean religious miracles - yes, but agnostic in question must also be a believer (here mostly two groups of agnostics: agnostics believing in God, but unable to prove it in any way (including symbolical data and personal visions) - and agnostics who do not believe in God, but unable to prove it WITH people who do not have strong opinion on God and supernatural). I'm an agnostic and also believer, so if you ask me - yes, i certainly believe in miracles - i do not know correct source of such miracles, throught, but it does not matter by much (as human my perception of anything supernatural is impaired, probably for good). So if you believe in miracles/supernatural then crazy unexplained things can then exist that we don't know of?
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azimovclegane87
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Post by azimovclegane87 on Apr 27, 2020 5:48:01 GMT
If you mean religious miracles - yes, but agnostic in question must also be a believer (here mostly two groups of agnostics: agnostics believing in God, but unable to prove it in any way (including symbolical data and personal visions) - and agnostics who do not believe in God, but unable to prove it WITH people who do not have strong opinion on God and supernatural). I'm an agnostic and also believer, so if you ask me - yes, i certainly believe in miracles - i do not know correct source of such miracles, throught, but it does not matter by much (as human my perception of anything supernatural is impaired, probably for good). So if you believe in miracles/supernatural then crazy unexplained things can then exist that we don't know of? Yes, of course. Their existence are not based on my or *probably* anybody own belief in them - they just happened somehow (or can happen at some point) and we can respond to them, or do not respond. Again, source of this unexplained things - along with miracles - is beyond ordinary research, science and perception.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2020 6:05:13 GMT
So if you believe in miracles/supernatural then crazy unexplained things can then exist that we don't know of? Yes, of course. Their existence are not based on my or *probably* anybody own belief in them - they just happened somehow (or can happen at some point) and we can respond to them, or do not respond. Again, source of this unexplained things - along with miracles - is beyond ordinary research, science and perception. So that would mean things happen beyond what science can explain or what it knows. Then we cannot rely on science completely.
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azimovclegane87
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Post by azimovclegane87 on Apr 27, 2020 6:41:44 GMT
Yes, of course. Their existence are not based on my or *probably* anybody own belief in them - they just happened somehow (or can happen at some point) and we can respond to them, or do not respond. Again, source of this unexplained things - along with miracles - is beyond ordinary research, science and perception. So that would mean things happen beyond what science can explain or what it knows. Then we cannot rely on science completely. Yep. Science (and Technology in this context, as practical implication of science) is very helpful set of tools in understanding and shaping our world - and in modern world, state of affairs without science and technology going to be much worse - but people need to understand that many other tools also exist at the same time. Most ancient set of tools (as i see it) is Culture (in sense of ethics, of non-material cultural base, common laws and so on) - this set of tools is vastly different to science, because culture always have excessive amounts of different data pieces and culture basically needs to be abundant with unwritten rules, customs, laws and many other elements that can be deemed as "unimportant" by many people - but without this elements culture cannot function reliably. Our world is difficult place to live and exist, but also very interesting one. And doing everything by scientifical set of tools - even shaping culture by set of empirical values, not ethical - can bring place where life is easy and system of moral values is destroyed, but this is not place people want to live, including me... And most supernatural beings and events seems to be based on anything, but modern science.
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Post by fishnchips on May 1, 2020 21:47:51 GMT
I'm going to work on the Google definition of miracle, which is "an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency".
I consider myself to be agnostic, so I make no comment on whether there is or isn't a god – only that we can't comprehend it if there is.
My mind is open to the concept of god, and it is definitely open to the concept of the supernatural. If I witnessed something that fit the description above, then most certainly I would believe in miracles, because to disbelieve would be to distrust my own senses. As it stands, I haven't yet seen a miracle, so I can't really say that I believe in them. But I can't say I don't either.
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