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Post by fschmidt on Oct 31, 2017 4:28:04 GMT
Last time I was checking, the religion was the reason of the problem, not the solution. This deserves its own thread. You can make your argument first, then I will respond. But I suggest that you read Machiavelli's comments on the subject first, in his "Discourses" chapters 11-15. ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/m/machiavelli/niccolo/m149d/book1.html#book1.11 |
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 31, 2017 4:52:08 GMT
I would see religion as a solution to the problem. Humans do not know everything and we are learning new things all the time, but who is to say religion has nothing good to provide? There are even churches there who do a lot for people to help. My church, for example, does missionary trips all over the world and helps charities and even has a rehab center. We also help the blind and elderly. Religion is there to help better you and have you impact the society in a positive way.
Sure, there have been some churches or leaders who have done bad things but that should not mean all religions do. Priests who molest kids, churches who use the money for other things, and so on are some people who abuse their positions and should be removed instead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 11:19:24 GMT
It only requires the basic knowledge of history and of current events to notice that my statement is correct.
The debate on it started from the claim that religion can solve current issues which Europe has nowadays. I do not speak Arabic but I know that Allahu akbar doesn't mean "I like candies". It was not about a charity work on some local area, but about supposedly positive impact of ideology on whole mankind - which is far from true, as religion and religious people will always expect the others to follow their nonsense rules and dogmas. If not then they will expect everyone to respect their views, or will be persecuted for blasphemy and offending someone's religion, while they do it to the others all the time.
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Post by fschmidt on Nov 1, 2017 0:02:44 GMT
Current events are irrelevant to this question since their impact are as yet unknown. History proves my position correct. Every rising culture in history was based on a strong religion.
Allahu akbar means God is great. I know because I attend mosque twice per week, even though I am not Muslim. I do this because Islam seems like the only source of hope in this modern degenerate world, so I actively support my local mosque.
And you clearly did not read Machiavelli's comments.
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bouipoz
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Post by bouipoz on Nov 1, 2017 0:21:54 GMT
Last time I was checking, the religion was the reason of the problem, not the solution. This deserves its own thread. You can make your argument first, then I will respond. But I suggest that you read Machiavelli's comments on the subject first, in his "Discourses" chapters 11-15.ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/m/machiavelli/niccolo/m149d/book1.html#book1.11Current events are irrelevant to this question since their impact are as yet unknown. History proves my position correct. Every rising culture in history was based on a strong religion.Allahu akbar means God is great. I know because I attend mosque twice per week, even though I am not Muslim. I do this because Islam seems like the only source of hope in this modern degenerate world, so I actively support my local mosque. And you clearly did not read Machiavelli's comments.As far as I know, when they were building their empire, the ancient Romans were not religious fanatics... What religion pushed them to clash with Carthage and to conquer Gaul? And if you cited Machiavelli... What do you think of Edward Gibbon's claim that Christianity caused the decline and fall of Rome? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 0:38:13 GMT
Current events are irrelevant  And yet it is you who perceives religion as a "cure" for current issues. Why seek cure for something irrelevant? |
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Post by fschmidt on Nov 1, 2017 5:44:09 GMT
Current events are irrelevant And yet it is you who perceives religion as a "cure" for current issues. Why seek cure for something irrelevant? Current events are irrelevant to answering this question, but the answer to this question is relevant to current events. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 8:08:10 GMT
Irrelevant to answer or maybe rather too difficult and uncomfortable. Anyway, since you pick what is relevant and what is not, I will stop here. If killing in the name of religion is irrelevant in the topic about religion then I have no idea how to proceed. Cheers |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Nov 5, 2017 17:22:56 GMT
In today's world a lot of problems because of religion. It has always been! Religion is one of the factors of the split of humanity, even more than politics and country! If it were possible then I would forbid religion! But I believe in God and do not tolerate atheism for me! I believe God is my friend! |
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nchsh
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Post by nchsh on Nov 10, 2017 15:49:14 GMT
While religion may be useful in certain situations to correct certain societal issues, overall it will always ultimately do more harm than good, since religion is based on idealized, unverifiable speculation, and not empirical knowledge. While Buddhism may be a partial exception to this, nonetheless, most schools of Buddhism are heavily tainted with superstition and moralistic philosophy. No matter how useful a religious system may seem at some particular point in time, if it last long enough, it will inevitably find it self at odds with current knowledge and societal values, and generally will lead to cognitive dissonance among the followers. Just say no kids!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 11:36:10 GMT
It depends. If people are bided to work in society, then religion is useful. In that context, religion would be a moral code of conduct, failing which, people have to pay. In fact, the ancient indo-european civilization was based on works, not on messiah type gods, where someone has to follow. The religion in their context was following the social norm.
However, now, the religion is more or less a tool of imperialism.It is not liberating people but rather, enslaving them.
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Lakupala
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Post by Lakupala on Nov 26, 2017 6:50:53 GMT
In theory it's irrelevant since there's good people that can be religious or atheists and bad people that can be religious or atheists. How it plays in real life is different so ce historically religion has been a scourge. Yiu can argue that that was because we lived in more primitive times. I guess its okay if it leads you to do good.
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marduk
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Post by marduk on Nov 29, 2017 7:59:21 GMT
i like to divide religion into two categories which i feel is important to do in order to proceed with a conversation, i.e
monotheism and polytheism
because all the monotheistic religions are totalitarian in nature because only one claim is deemed to be absolute and others are irrelevant
whereas polytheistic religions are much more accepting towards other cultural perspectives about the divine and in turn the major religion assimilates the beliefs around them
the difference in these two types of religion can very well explain the definition of bigotry
now that being said
i see monotheistic religions as a problem because the divine or the god suddenly becomes , your god or my god or his god, and when the ego kicks in and you start drawing boundaries when it comes to the divine we tend to abuse an idea which has immense potential which results in shit like merging of the church and state which resulted in the crusades and the dark ages
polytheistic religions on the other were pretty much wiped out(paganism in Europe) by the dominating totalitarian nature of a monotheistic religion i.e Christianity
the same thing happened in india after india was invaded by arabs in the 12th century, a monotheistic religion(islam) clashed with a polytheistic religion(Hinduism) religious assimilation was not possible but both sides prevailed rather than Hinduism(paganism) being wiped out
monotheism tries to dominate, polytheism tries to assimilate
Jung says his experience with the unconsciousness was indistinguishable from what all cultures call god which is why he doest believe in god he knows, i feel the basis of both monotheism and polytheism are from the unconscious, its just that one side is more ego driven which assumes "my particular experience" precedes other experiences and that results in problems where as the other side just wants to bring all together, which i think is truly spiritual and a solution rather than a problem
global polytheism i think is the appropriate evolution of religion devoid of the ego, assimilation of all religions back into spirituality
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Onetrack
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Post by Onetrack on Dec 4, 2017 3:18:27 GMT
Its very possible to be good without god.. if someone requires a book to give them morality then they never had it to begin with. If that book teaches them that all others who don't prescribe to their chosen ideology are inferior and deserve death they should start with themselves. One only needs to look at the punishment for leaving islam and becoming an apostate to know it is not a choice. Here are some punishments simply for questioning it - might I remind people its the 21st century, not the 7th - there is no room for this bronze age ideology anymore.  Elizabeth and I spoke of this in another thread - the church (  which denomination) does good for the community and uses its donations well, I have full respect for that. And I don't want to hear ' thats not the real islam ' because it is. You either follow the book or you don't. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 5, 2017 23:16:55 GMT
Its very possible to be good without god.. if someone requires a book to give them morality then they never had it to begin with. If that book teaches them that all others who don't prescribe to their chosen ideology are inferior and deserve death they should start with themselves. One only needs to look at the punishment for leaving islam and becoming an apostate to know it is not a choice. Here are some punishments simply for questioning it - might I remind people its the 21st century, not the 7th - there is no room for this bronze age ideology anymore. View AttachmentElizabeth and I spoke of this in another thread - the church ( which denomination) does good for the community and uses its donations well, I have full respect for that. And I don't want to hear ' thats not the real islam ' because it is. You either follow the book or you don't. You said it is possible to be good without God...and I don't fully disagree. But what is good? Everyone will have there own definition of what is good. So who is right? The guys who hijacked the planes for 9/11 and killed a ton of people said they did a good thing. Some do honor killings and say it is a good thing. My point is...not all humans have the same idea of what is good and they may appear to be good in their own eyes only. I'm saying their needs to be a one way that is good that we can all agree on or accept. But in my opinion that way can only come from God. |
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which denomination) does good for the community and uses its donations well, I have full respect for that.