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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 23, 2018 19:56:11 GMT
Just as cute pair unknown and Eodnhoj7 share a thread to discuss philosophy together, so Dk and I plan to share our own discussion too. Please refrain from comments here. You can make your own threads based off stuff here for your own separate discussions.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 13, 2018 2:31:30 GMT
I agree God is absolutely not a man, but a Spirit, THE eternal Spirit who created all things. We cannot see Him because He is invisible, not of this world, but of a spiritual world invisible to us in this physical world, both of which He created... John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Colossians 1:9-17 9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ...and yes, He is eternal, He has no beginning or end, but He is the beginning and the end, the first and the last, 1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Psalm 41:13 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen. Psalm 106:48 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the Lord. Mary is not the mother of God as you said, that is not Biblical, no scripture supports it. I wouldn't use the word "disguise" necessarily, because that word can insist deception and dishonesty. I would use the word "guise" instead which can mean a likeness, seeming, an outward appearance, or a semblance, but I understand the point you are making and the point of the song you shared and agree yes, they make me laugh as well. Jesus did not take His physical body up into heaven with Him, 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. I have heard people say just that before, that men are angels and vice versa. I'm not sure which denomination believes that(maybe Mormons?), but it definitely not Biblical. The Bible makes a distinct difference between men and angels in many places, 1 Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. Luke 12:7-9 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. 8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. These are clear distinctions...and we will even judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? And these angels we will judge, 2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And then there's this passage, Hebrews 2:13-16 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. That last verse says angels do not fall under Christ's work here on earth, so then we cannot be angels! Any comments? Saying Jesus was in disguise seems cool though since you are like undercover or hiding your real identity. Which Jesus kind of did both. He was undercover as a human to find His way to the cross and He was hiding His identity because He took the role of a servant not God (to serve and not be served) Mark 10:45 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” But guise works too But what did you mean by this? "16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. That last verse says angels do not fall under Christ's work here on earth, so then we cannot be angels!" The way I read that verse is that Jesus didn't choose to come in the form of an angel as His disguise or guise but as a seed of Abraham meaning human. Reading it in the context, it would seem to say that Christ didn't bare on His body the sins of angels, but our sins, the sins of the seed of Abraham. So His work here on earth doesn't apply to angels, hence angels cannot be men and vice versa shrug
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 13, 2018 2:34:34 GMT
Saying Jesus was in disguise seems cool though since you are like undercover or hiding your real identity. Which Jesus kind of did both. He was undercover as a human to find His way to the cross and He was hiding His identity because He took the role of a servant not God (to serve and not be served) Mark 10:45 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” But guise works too But what did you mean by this? "16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. That last verse says angels do not fall under Christ's work here on earth, so then we cannot be angels!" The way I read that verse is that Jesus didn't choose to come in the form of an angel as His disguise or guise but as a seed of Abraham meaning human. Reading it in the context, it would seem to say that Christ didn't bare on His body the sins of angels, but our sins, the sins of the seed of Abraham. So His work here on earth doesn't apply to angels, hence angels cannot be men and vice versa shrug Well, yes that's true. But the verse that says Christ not taking on the nature of an angel only means He didn't die for them to you?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 13, 2018 2:41:32 GMT
Reading it in the context, it would seem to say that Christ didn't bare on His body the sins of angels, but our sins, the sins of the seed of Abraham. So His work here on earth doesn't apply to angels, hence angels cannot be men and vice versa shrug Well, yes that's true. But the verse that says Christ not taking on the nature of an angel only means He didn't die for them to you? Well, I'm just looking at the context... Hebrews 2:13-16 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. ^Aren't these the saints? 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. ^I took it as Christ not bearing the sins of angels or having anything to do with angels at all, and that He was only on earth for the seed of Abraham shrug It could mean what you are saying, because Christ definitely didn't come here in the form of an angel, but in the likeness of man, in the flesh. Christ isn't the archangel Michael silly JW's facepalm
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 13, 2018 2:46:14 GMT
Well, yes that's true. But the verse that says Christ not taking on the nature of an angel only means He didn't die for them to you? Well, I'm just looking at the context... Hebrews 2:13-16 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. ^Aren't these the saints? 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. ^I took it as Christ not bearing the sins of angels or having anything to do with angels at all, and that He was only on earth for the seed of Abraham shrug It could mean what you are saying, because Christ definitely didn't come here in the form of an angel, but in the likeness of man, in the flesh. Christ isn't the archangel Michael silly JW's facepalm I was only talking about verse 16. But seems we agree if we use both. So let's see...you agree with the following? 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Yeah, these would be the saints who were delivered from death which they were in bondage to. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Jesus didn't take the nature of angel as in taking the form of an angel but took the form of a human from Abraham's seed specifically to accomplish the deliverance from death.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 13, 2018 2:48:44 GMT
Well, I'm just looking at the context... Hebrews 2:13-16 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. ^Aren't these the saints? 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. ^I took it as Christ not bearing the sins of angels or having anything to do with angels at all, and that He was only on earth for the seed of Abraham shrug It could mean what you are saying, because Christ definitely didn't come here in the form of an angel, but in the likeness of man, in the flesh. Christ isn't the archangel Michael silly JW's facepalm I was only talking about verse 16. But seems we agree if we use both. So let's see...you agree with the following? 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Yeah, these would be the saints who were delivered from death which they were in bondage to. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Jesus didn't take the nature of angel as in taking the form of an angel but took the form of a human from Abraham's seed specifically to accomplish the deliverance from death. Yes I agree with that
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 14, 2018 7:43:24 GMT
Okay, so next we will talk about Jesus Christ Jesus Christ is God, Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Not only is He God, but He is God manifest in the flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:1-2, 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Many will dispute that Jesus never claimed to be God, but even the Pharisees understood that Jesus was making the claim and even right after Jesus said "I and my Father are one.", John 10:30-33 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. And even in an earlier conversation with Pharisees He said He was the "I am", John 8:58-59 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. And later one of His disciples called Him God, John 20:27-28 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus is our Redeemer, 1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. ...correlates with this verse... Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. Titus 2:11-14 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: He was sent so that the world might be saved through Him, John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. He is the truth, the way, and the life, John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ..and the light of the world, John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:1-2 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And only by Him can we be saved, Matthew 8:18-22 18 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side. 19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. 21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Romans 10:9-10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Acts 4:10-12 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Anything to add?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 16, 2018 2:22:01 GMT
Okay, so next we will talk about Jesus Christ Jesus Christ is God, Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Not only is He God, but He is God manifest in the flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:1-2, 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Many will dispute that Jesus never claimed to be God, but even the Pharisees understood that Jesus was making the claim and even right after Jesus said "I and my Father are one.", John 10:30-33 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. And even in an earlier conversation with Pharisees He said He was the "I am", John 8:58-59 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. And later one of His disciples called Him God, John 20:27-28 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus is our Redeemer, 1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. ...correlates with this verse... Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. Titus 2:11-14 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: He was sent so that the world might be saved through Him, John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. He is the truth, the way, and the life, John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ..and the light of the world, John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:1-2 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And only by Him can we be saved, Matthew 8:18-22 18 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side. 19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. 21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Romans 10:9-10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Acts 4:10-12 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Anything to add? I agree. Also look at the interesting ways Jesus talks about a kingdom. Jesus declares He has a kingdom not on Earth. John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Jesus calls it the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 3:2 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” The kingdom is the Father's. Matthew 26:29 29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” Jesus calls it a kingdom of God and Him using the Spirit of God to do things. Matthew 12:28 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. So this is what we have here if we put everything together Jesus's kingdom=kingdom of heaven, kingdom of God, and kingdom of the Father. So the whole kingdom is Jesus'/God's/Fathers'. And when Jesus said He has servants in His kingdom then it's like His army of angels and stuff Agree or no?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 16, 2018 3:30:03 GMT
Okay, so next we will talk about Jesus Christ Jesus Christ is God, Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Not only is He God, but He is God manifest in the flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:1-2, 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Many will dispute that Jesus never claimed to be God, but even the Pharisees understood that Jesus was making the claim and even right after Jesus said "I and my Father are one.", John 10:30-33 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. And even in an earlier conversation with Pharisees He said He was the "I am", John 8:58-59 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. And later one of His disciples called Him God, John 20:27-28 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus is our Redeemer, 1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. ...correlates with this verse... Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. Titus 2:11-14 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: He was sent so that the world might be saved through Him, John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. He is the truth, the way, and the life, John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ..and the light of the world, John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:1-2 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And only by Him can we be saved, Matthew 8:18-22 18 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side. 19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. 21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Romans 10:9-10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Acts 4:10-12 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Anything to add? I agree. Also look at the interesting ways Jesus talks about a kingdom. Jesus declares He has a kingdom not on Earth. John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Jesus calls it the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 3:2 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” The kingdom is the Father's. Matthew 26:29 29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” Jesus calls it a kingdom of God and Him using the Spirit of God to do things. Matthew 12:28 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. So this is what we have here if we put everything together Jesus's kingdom=kingdom of heaven, kingdom of God, and kingdom of the Father. So the whole kingdom is Jesus'/God's/Fathers'. And when Jesus said He has servants in His kingdom then it's like His army of angels and stuff Agree or no? Yes, I agree it correlates with the Trinity as well with the kingdom being Jesus', God's(who is Spirit), and the Father's.. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 18, 2018 4:52:43 GMT
DKTrav88I want to continue on with this now. What do these verses mean to you? And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. John 8:23 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 18, 2018 5:46:13 GMT
DKTrav88I want to continue on with this now. What do these verses mean to you? And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. John 8:23 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5 In John 8:23 Jesus is speaking to the Jews and telling them that they are of the world as in they mind the things of the world, they are carnal and not of the Spirit, and that they are blinded because of it and cannot see that Jesus is the Christ, God in the flesh. Jesus says He is not of this world as in He is from heaven and also in the Spirit, that He does not belong to this world as the Jews did. He says this later to Philip, John 14:17 [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. This verse says that those who are of the world cannot see God nor know Him which is what Jesus was telling the Jews in John 8, but they didn’t understand because they are of the world. Jesus also says this later when talking to Pilate, John 18:36 [36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. This further confirms that Jesus is not of this world, but from heaven as that is where His kingdom is because He is God. In John 17:5 Jesus is praying to the Father in heaven and is asking the Father to glorify Him with the same glory that He had with the Father from before the world was made, meaning that Jesus was there in the beginning before the world was made, which further supports that He is God. Agree? I also noticed, because a week or so ago I looked into the reason for why there are words in italic in the Bible, this... John 8:24 [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:28 [28] Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 13:19 [19] Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. ...the word “he” is italicized in the text which means they weren’t in the original Greek and were added in by the translators to make it easier to understand, but when you take them out, it just says “I am”. So Jesus actually said multiple times that He is I am. It essentially has the same meaning, but many people try to claim that Jesus never claimed to be God, which if one studies the text that is found to be completely false; He claimed many times that He is God.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 19, 2018 4:37:39 GMT
DKTrav88I want to continue on with this now. What do these verses mean to you? And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. John 8:23 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5 In John 8:23 Jesus is speaking to the Jews and telling them that they are of the world as in they mind the things of the world, they are carnal and not of the Spirit, and that they are blinded because of it and cannot see that Jesus is the Christ, God in the flesh. Jesus says He is not of this world as in He is from heaven and also in the Spirit, that He does not belong to this world as the Jews did. He says this later to Philip, John 14:17 [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. This verse says that those who are of the world cannot see God nor know Him which is what Jesus was telling the Jews in John 8, but they didn’t understand because they are of the world. Jesus also says this later when talking to Pilate, John 18:36 [36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. This further confirms that Jesus is not of this world, but from heaven as that is where His kingdom is because He is God. In John 17:5 Jesus is praying to the Father in heaven and is asking the Father to glorify Him with the same glory that He had with the Father from before the world was made, meaning that Jesus was there in the beginning before the world was made, which further supports that He is God. Agree? I also noticed, because a week or so ago I looked into the reason for why there are words in italic in the Bible, this... John 8:24 [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:28 [28] Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 13:19 [19] Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. ...the word “he” is italicized in the text which means they weren’t in the original Greek and were added in by the translators to make it easier to understand, but when you take them out, it just says “I am”. So Jesus actually said multiple times that He is I am. It essentially has the same meaning, but many people try to claim that Jesus never claimed to be God, which if one studies the text that is found to be completely false; He claimed many times that He is God. I agree Also....in terms of this verse... And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5 We see that Jesus says He had the same glory with the Father before the world ever existed. Jesus once again made Himself equal to God and Father. And there's also another verse where the Father speaks and makes Himself equal to the Son/God. Do you know the verse?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 19, 2018 5:11:37 GMT
In John 8:23 Jesus is speaking to the Jews and telling them that they are of the world as in they mind the things of the world, they are carnal and not of the Spirit, and that they are blinded because of it and cannot see that Jesus is the Christ, God in the flesh. Jesus says He is not of this world as in He is from heaven and also in the Spirit, that He does not belong to this world as the Jews did. He says this later to Philip, John 14:17 [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. This verse says that those who are of the world cannot see God nor know Him which is what Jesus was telling the Jews in John 8, but they didn’t understand because they are of the world. Jesus also says this later when talking to Pilate, John 18:36 [36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. This further confirms that Jesus is not of this world, but from heaven as that is where His kingdom is because He is God. In John 17:5 Jesus is praying to the Father in heaven and is asking the Father to glorify Him with the same glory that He had with the Father from before the world was made, meaning that Jesus was there in the beginning before the world was made, which further supports that He is God. Agree? I also noticed, because a week or so ago I looked into the reason for why there are words in italic in the Bible, this... John 8:24 [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:28 [28] Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 13:19 [19] Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. ...the word “he” is italicized in the text which means they weren’t in the original Greek and were added in by the translators to make it easier to understand, but when you take them out, it just says “I am”. So Jesus actually said multiple times that He is I am. It essentially has the same meaning, but many people try to claim that Jesus never claimed to be God, which if one studies the text that is found to be completely false; He claimed many times that He is God. I agree Also....in terms of this verse... And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5 We see that Jesus says He had the same glory with the Father before the world ever existed. Jesus once again made Himself equal to God and Father. And there's also another verse where the Father speaks and makes Himself equal to the Son/God. Do you know the verse? I believe it is here, John 12:27-30 27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 19, 2018 5:39:11 GMT
I agree Also....in terms of this verse... And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5 We see that Jesus says He had the same glory with the Father before the world ever existed. Jesus once again made Himself equal to God and Father. And there's also another verse where the Father speaks and makes Himself equal to the Son/God. Do you know the verse? I believe it is here, John 12:27-30 27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Good verses but not the ones I meant. This chapter here is very good. But what do you see the Father call the Son? Hebrews 1 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? 6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” 7 And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; 12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” 13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? Basically from verses 8 to the end the Father glorifies the Son and calls Him God. This chapter also proves Jesus isn't an angel as some may have thought xD Agree?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 22, 2018 1:42:58 GMT
I believe it is here, John 12:27-30 27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Good verses but not the ones I meant. This chapter here is very good. But what do you see the Father call the Son? Hebrews 1 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? 6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” 7 And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; 12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” 13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? Basically from verses 8 to the end the Father glorifies the Son and calls Him God. This chapter also proves Jesus isn't an angel as some may have thought xD Agree? Yes I agree though I thought you were looking for a verse, not a whole chapter but that's fine Looking at the context, we can see that two questions are raised, the first being if the Father had ever told His angels "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" and the second question being if the Father had ever told any of His angels "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son", but the obvious answer is no to both of these questions because they are found nowhere in scripture. Then in verse 6 it says "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten"...the firstbegotten being Christ, the Son of God..."into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."; He tells all the angels to worship His Son. Then in verse 8, as you highlighted, the Father says to the Son "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." So the Father is calling His Son God and saying that the throne is His for ever and ever. And then in verse 10 the Father says further to the Son "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands", calling Him Lord and saying He, the Son, laid the foundation of the earth and created the heavens, further confirming that He is indeed God. I mean, if God the Father is telling God the Son that He is God then it must be absolutely true Also to point out in support of your last sentence, verse 4 says "Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." making Jesus higher and more superior than the angels could ever be. Not only this, but to say that Jesus is an angel is to practice eisegesis, as nowhere in the Bible does it support the notion that Jesus is an angel, in fact, it says in Philippians 2:5-8, 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. ...we know angels cannot be equal with God because God created the angels, He created all things. So Jesus cannot be an angel because angels cannot be equal with God while in this passage it says Jesus was equal with God, meaning He is God. We can point back to so many verses that support this, especially in the gospel of John, including those where Jesus says He is the "I AM", the God of the Israelites, the one and only true God. Moreover, in verse 13 and 14 of Hebrews, these questions are asked, "But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? " and "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"... the obvious answer to the first question is no because nowhere in scripture did God ever say to an angel that He will sit one of them on His right hand and make their enemies their footstool, and the answer to the second question is a yes; Psalm 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire Matthew 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. ...and from Hebrews 1 itself, Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. Any comments?
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 22, 2018 2:10:25 GMT
Good verses but not the ones I meant. This chapter here is very good. But what do you see the Father call the Son? Hebrews 1 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? 6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” 7 And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; 12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” 13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? Basically from verses 8 to the end the Father glorifies the Son and calls Him God. This chapter also proves Jesus isn't an angel as some may have thought xD Agree? Yes I agree though I thought you were looking for a verse, not a whole chapter but that's fine Looking at the context, we can see that two questions are raised, the first being if the Father had ever told His angels "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" and the second question being if the Father had ever told any of His angels "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son", but the obvious answer is no to both of these questions because they are found nowhere in scripture. Then in verse 6 it says "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten"...the firstbegotten being Christ, the Son of God..."into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."; He tells all the angels to worship His Son. Then in verse 8, as you highlighted, the Father says to the Son "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." So the Father is calling His Son God and saying that the throne is His for ever and ever. And then in verse 10 the Father says further to the Son "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands", calling Him Lord and saying He, the Son, laid the foundation of the earth and created the heavens, further confirming that He is indeed God. I mean, if God the Father is telling God the Son that He is God then it must be absolutely true Also to point out in support of your last sentence, verse 4 says "Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." making Jesus higher and more superior than the angels could ever be. Not only this, but to say that Jesus is an angel is to practice eisegesis, as nowhere in the Bible does it support the notion that Jesus is an angel, in fact, it says in Philippians 2:5-8, 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. ...we know angels cannot be equal with God because God created the angels, He created all things. So Jesus cannot be an angel because angels cannot be equal with God while in this passage it says Jesus was equal with God, meaning He is God. We can point back to so many verses that support this, especially in the gospel of John, including those where Jesus says He is the "I AM", the God of the Israelites, the one and only true God. Moreover, in verse 13 and 14 of Hebrews, these questions are asked, "But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? " and "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"... the obvious answer to the first question is no because nowhere in scripture did God ever say to an angel that He will sit one of them on His right hand and make their enemies their footstool, and the answer to the second questions is a yes; Psalm 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire Matthew 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. ...and from Hebrews 1 itself, Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. Any comments? Well, it was mostly verse 8 that I was looking for so I made it in bold but then realized the whole chapter was interesting to post too But yeah in Hebrews the Father calls Jesus God. Not even a simile or anything but directly. And the Father wouldn't call anything else God since He hates idols and false gods. And Philippians is another interesting thing you posted. Philippians 2:5-8, 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. In verses 5 and 6 it also clearly states that Jesus is God. Then in verse 8 it uses a simile to say that He became "as" a man meaning that Jesus isn't really a man but became "as" one (simile) since He's really God and not man. And as we already discussed that Jesus/God formed the world before humans were yet made then how is Mary His mother when He made her? Impossible Shrug No angel and no human can compete against Jesus because He is God who created them all. And no human is more special than another human whether Mary or whoever since He doesn't favor anyone more than another in value. Agree?
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