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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 27, 2018 6:12:54 GMT
This verse explains the qualifications of a minister of God since Timothy and Epaphras were ministers of God/Christ. But what made them ministers of God?
1 Thessalonians 3:2 2 and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith,
Timothy the minister of God did: spread the gospel, established and encouraged people in the faith
And what did Epaphras do?
Colossians 1:7 7 as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf,
Epaphras: ministered about Christ to people
So....Timothy and Epaphras both taught people about Jesus and cared about our growth in Christ. So all who do this are ministers of God.
Only real Christians can be ministers of God because no one else would care to spread Jesus and focus on your behalf to follow Him.
So what does this verse mean? Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Qualifications of a minister of God in Romans: He does only good it says. And Timothy and Epaphras did good in doing what God commanded of them. So what must we do before other ministers of God who are in higher power than us?
Simple. Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
So who can these higher powers and ministers of God be? Well, angles and God Himself. Angels will punish does who do not do good in revelations. And yes they do spread the gospel when they're sent to people since they speak of God and encourage us to obey God.
Galatians 1:8 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Some examples of angels executing wrath as Pail mentioned in Romans....
And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. Revelation:16:8
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, Revelation:16:10
And angels helped punish in OT too. And yes, angels can have swords to execute judgements as Paul said in Romans.
Numbers 22 31 Then the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the Angel of the Lord standing in the way with His drawn sword in His hand; and he bowed his head and fell flat on his face. 32 And the Angel of the Lord said to him, “Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out to stand against you, because your way is perverse before Me. 33 The donkey saw Me and turned aside from Me these three times. If she had not turned aside from Me, surely I would also have killed you by now, and let her live.”
The angel was going to kill him with that sword because he wasn't doing good! He got lucky by God's mercy though because he repented to God!
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Post by Διαμονδ on Aug 27, 2018 17:25:45 GMT
You write it right, but you've forgotten some biblical truths. In order to know which Church true you need to know whether they have Apostolic succession. The servants of God are in the Church of Christ! On this forum there was a topic about this supposedly not a biblical practice, but it's just a consequence of the conflict between Catholics and Protestants without taking into account the position of other Christians.
Apostolic succession is a God-established way of preserving and transferring hierarchical service in the Church from the Holy Apostles through the Sacrament of the Priesthood. Apostolic succession presupposes not only the visible expression of the Episcopal ordinations (ordinations), but also the transfer of the blessed gifts of the Holy Spirit, on which the hierarchical Ministry of the Church is based. According to Scripture, the Holy Apostles, who received the fullness of this Ministry From the Lord himself, after the descent of the Holy Spirit(Jn. 20:21-23; Matt. 28:19-20; MK.16:15-16; LK.24:47-49; acts.1:8) ordained the first bishops (acts. 14:23; 20:28; 2 Tim.1: 6 et al.) and commanded to pass through the Sacrament of Episcopal ordination the fullness of the blessed gifts of the Church hierarchy (1Tim. 5:22; tit. 1:5).
From the Old Testament we know that of the people of Israel only the tribe of Levi had a priestly succession even God said: 'and you will be with me a Kingdom of priests and a Holy people; these are the words that you will say to the children of Israel' (Exodus. 19:6) All the rest of the Jews could not be priests, although called a Holy nation. In the New Testament, Christians are such a people: Therefore I tell you that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to the people who bear its fruit; Matthew 21:43
After forty years of wandering in the wilderness, Moses brought the children of Israel to the promised land. But by the will of God was not given to enter it to Moses. The prophet died in the land of Moab, leaving behind a successor. We learn from the Bible that the succession of grace was established by God Himself “ " and the Lord said unto Moses, take unto you Jesus, the son of Naveen, a man in whom there is a Spirit, and lay thy hand upon him... and give him of thy glory, that all the society of the children of Israel may hear him” (num. 27:18,29). So did the prophet “ " and Joshua the son was filled with the spirit of wisdom, because Moses laid his hands upon him, and the children of Israel obeyed him, and did as the Lord commanded Moses” (Deut. 34:9).
As in Old Testament times God chose prophets to Israel, as God incarnate, Jesus Christ gives power to his Apostles: “...as the Father has sent Me, so send I you. Having said this, he breathed on them and said: receive the Holy Spirit. Whoever's sins you forgive, they are forgiven; whosoever sins you retain, they are retained” (Jn. 20:21-23). The Lord gave this power to the twelve disciples and later to the Apostle Paul. Another thing is that at Pentecost the Apostles were baptized by the Holy Spirit: "... but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the ends of the earth" (acts. 1:8). The same gifts he received that day about three thousand people being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. But the power to forgive or forsake sins, to deliver the priesthood in God's name, is given only to the Apostles.
Opponents of this usually refer to the lines taken out of the context of the Scripture, where it is said that in the Jerusalem Church the whole Assembly chose the clergy. However, these elections were offered by the Apostles themselves and then: "... they were put before the Apostles, and these, having prayed, laid hands on them" (acts. 6:6). In addition, the Apostle Paul writes to Timothy: "do not lay your Hands on anyone hastily" (1 Tim. 5:22). It is obvious that The Apostle Paul instructed Bishop Timothy to ordain presbyters, not the Assembly of laity. On the other hand, only legally ordained priests, but not laymen, could perform the rites (some of them were later called Sacraments): "are any of you sick? Let him call the elders of the Church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith shall heal the sick and restore him the Lord; and if he has done sins, they shall forgive him" (James. 5:14-15). How to define the Apostolic Church, because many false prophets come under the name of Christ and declare their God-chosen. Answer is very simple, for example in the third century, Tertullian said: “Let them (the heretics) show the commencement of their churches!"The beginnings of Protestant churches, at best, can be traced back to the sixteenth century, and the Neo-Protestants arose in the 20th or 21 Almost all the "founders" of new Christian groups like to refer to the MF.18: 19-20: "Verily also I say unto you, if two of you agree on the earth to ask for any work, whatever they ask shall be of My father in Heaven, for where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in their midst." But they forget about the other biblical verses: "Aaron (as) and his sons give to their priest's office; and if the stranger who comes near shall be put to death" (num. 3:10), and in the New Testament: "And no man taketh this honor but he that is called of God, as was Aaron" (Heb. 5:4). But maybe any group of people who call themselves Christians has the right on behalf of God to supply themselves with clergy? Jesus Christ answers his apostles and to all Christians: "ye have Not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you..." (Jn. 15:15-16). Christ Himself was the Shepherd (Jn. 10: 11,16) and set other shepherds (Eph.4:11; 1 pet.5:1-5). The Lord, by his promise, enables those gathered in the name of Christ to pray, study the Bible, or sing songs about God. But in the Autonomous communities there is not the fullness of the blessed gifts that gives life to the Apostolic Church. At the same time, the Lord in various ways points the way to the true Church, which he created, promising his disciples: "I am with you all the days until the end of the century" (MT. 28:20). The disciples of Christ left the earthly life, passing from glory to their successors, as in the old Testament time did by the order of the Lord the Theologian Moses. The new Testament did not abolish, but continued this tradition, as confirmed by the Apostle Paul: "do not be ignorant of the gift that is in you, which is given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the priesthood" (1Tim. 4:14)
As for the Church hierarchy. It was established in Ancient Israel, so the question "are all the Apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all miracle workers?"(1 cor. 12:29) did not cause confusion – all knew and questioned: "He gave some to be Apostles, some prophets, some Evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of Ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" (Eph. 4:11-12). Note: for the creation, not the dismemberment of the body of Christ! From the side of the Non- Apostolic churches we hear: for two thousand years the teaching of the Church of the first Christians was distorted and, therefore, they say, it took new churches that are not stained with sins. Especially such statements are typical for Neo-Protesnatnts communities that emerged in the late 20th-early 21st centuries. What can we say of such zealots of piety? The Church is the immaculate Body of Christ (Col. 1: 24; Eph.5: 27), sins are committed by its individual representatives. Second, the most powerful argument in this dispute is the Genealogy of our Lord Jesus Christ – both before and after king David, there were sinners, and wicked kings. Even the wisest Solomon succumbed to passions, took wives of foreigners and "... his wives bowed his heart to other gods, and his heart was not completely devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David, his father" (3tsar. 11:4). We also know from Scripture that the first shepherd who sinned before God was none other than the high priest Aaron: at the request of the people, he collected gold ornaments, cast corpuscles from them and built an altar to worship the idol (ex. 32:2-5). Sin, and the Apostles of the Church of Christ, because no man will live and not sin (3Цар.8:46; 2 Chronicles.6:36; ECC.7:20). Therefore, the lawfully ordained priesthood does not depend on the ratio of sinful or pious people, but is determined by Apostolic succession. Priests are people from our human society, not angelic beings from Paradise. To the detractors of the Holy authority, set by God in the Church of Christ, even in the Old Testament times gave a worthy answer to the inspired Psalmist David : -Touch ye not my anointed: and do no evil to my prophets.- Psalm 104:15
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Post by just10sp on Aug 27, 2018 18:48:39 GMT
A minister is, literally, a “servant,” but the word has taken on a broader meaning in religious circles. Today, a Christian minister is seen as someone authorized to conduct religious services. A person who leads worship services, administrates a church, or conducts weddings and funerals is considered a Christian minister. Synonyms of minister are clergy and pastor.
In the Bible, the role of minister is not linked to licensing or being an “official” wielding some kind of authority. In Romans 15:16 Paul says that he was called to be “a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. [God] gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.” Following in Paul’s footsteps, any person who desires to serve God by “proclaiming the gospel so that . . . others might become sanctified by the Holy Spirit” is a Christian minister. Broadly speaking, being a servant of Christ makes one a Christian minister.
Individual churches can define more specific roles for that church’s ministers or pastors. Although Scripture indicates that the spiritual authority of a local body should be a man (1 Timothy 2:12), other ministering roles are available to both men and women. In most non-Catholic churches, a senior minister is responsible for the majority of the preaching and for overseeing church government. In the New Testament, such men are referred to as “overseers,” “elders,” or “shepherds” (Acts 20:28; Titus 1:7; 1 Timothy 3:1–2). These terms are referencing “ministers” in an official capacity—those having been called by God to lead a church.
There are strict guidelines for those aspiring to the office of overseer. An elder or minister must be “blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient . . . not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.” (Titus 1:6–9)
First Timothy 3:1–7 adds that the role of overseer is “a noble task.” Also, a minister should not be a recent convert and must “have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.”
Even in the first-century church, there were some who infiltrated the church, posing as ministers but motivated only by greed and lust (2 Peter 2:1–2, 19; Matthew 7:15; Acts 20:29). Not everyone who calls himself a Christian minister is worthy of that title. God takes such imposters seriously (Jude 1:12–13). A true Christian minister is someone gifted by God for church leadership (1 Corinthians 12:28–29). He has been ordained by a like-minded governing body (Acts 6:6; 13:3; 2 Timothy 1:6). And he lives in accordance with the Scriptures defining his role.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Aug 27, 2018 18:57:54 GMT
just10sp What you wrote doesn't contradict what I wrote. Shrug Following in Paul’s footsteps, any person who desires to serve GodYes..but he has to accept ordination from the priesthood: "do not be ignorant of the gift that is in you, which is given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the priesthood" (1Tim. 4:14)
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 27, 2018 18:59:10 GMT
At least you two agree a minister of God is godly and obeys God only.
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Post by just10sp on Aug 27, 2018 22:49:46 GMT
just10sp What you wrote doesn't contradict what I wrote. Following in Paul’s footsteps, any person who desires to serve GodYes..but he has to accept ordination from the priesthood: "do not be ignorant of the gift that is in you, which is given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the priesthood" (1Tim. 4:14) That was my favourite part about what you originally posted! Personal: I was very late to Christianity that I feel like the wave of giants has already passed by, so I'm trying to throw a grapple onto one of your shoulders. At least a gps tracking device so I know where you guys are at if I ever do catch up.
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